Alternative To Jill Jabs

[leegreen 2,173]

I don't see how a good diet has any significant effect on the hormone levels of a jill in a prolonged heat. I agree that it is not detrimental to all jills to not be brought out of season, and I have experience of both. Last year I lost a vasectomised hob part of the way through the summer. One of my jills remained in season through until November while the others came out a lot earlier. She has lost that much condition I have not worked her at all this winter. In my opinion it is much better to bring them out of season.

 

 

I wasn't saying that it had any effect on hormone levels. Read my post.

 

My Jill's never lose any noticeable condition. In fact they are quite often fat.

 

 

Could you tell me other than making a Jill retain the blood loss due to bleeding. What benefit does bringing a Jill out of season have?

[ferret100 47]

also in these studies on humans the neem was taken all the time. remember women can get pregnant every month wheras ferrets are only once or twice a year, so ive nothing to lose as it has been proven safe for mammals and i cant see how something herbal will cause damage when taken in appropriate doses for only 3 weeks max. and if it doesnt work i have a plan b now ferretfatcamp has offered me his service

It has also been proven fatal, widen your research net, not only with using potentially toxic plants as a 'contraceptive' but also regarding mustelid reproduction. How exactly do you plan to formulate and administer this herbal remedy to achieve your desired results?

[Mochastorm 68]

A jill will remain in oestrus for a prolonged period. There' s no significant bleeding during this time, but the hormone effects her body. In her natural state she would be brought of season when she found a mate. An example which others may be more familiar with is if you own a bitch and how they lose condition, they are also far more susceptible to gynaecological problems. Infection of the vaginal canal, cervix and also uterus. I am speaking from experience having had problems in the past with jills remaining in season, but as I said not all of them had problems. Maybe you have been lucky, so far.

[ferret100 47]

I mean I've never had a problem with my Jill's being in or out of season.

 

Jill's in season bleed, when they bleed for a long time they start to suffer from "anaemia" and come out of season. Once the blood levels build up, the Jill comes back in season and this will be the cycle. If this continues to happen with an inadequate diet your Jill could die. If you feed quality food such as whole animals you won't suffer from these symptoms.

 

I once asked a vet about death in female ferrets while in season and why I had never suffered. He said because of the diet your feeding and gave me the above information.

And just to add, in all that time I have bred 6 litters, just to get replacement ferrets.

 

Hope this helps

 

Please anyone, feel free to correct me.

Get a new vet.

 

Jills bleeding when in season is not good at all, ferrets do not menstruate as you have described.

 

Allowing jills to remain in season causes Oestrogen Toxidity, this causes bone marrow to significantly reduce production levels of and/or produce non-functioning rbc, wbc and platelets, leading to Aplastic Anaemia, infection, and internal hemorrhage.

 

Mochastorm is correct in stating that diet has no significant bearing on these particular reproductive issues. Atb.

Edited February 6, 2013 by ferret100

[Mochastorm 68]

Ferret100, you appear to be well versed in the physiology of mustelids. I must remember to consult you in the future with any ferret ailments. Thanks

[ferret100 47]

Ferret100, you appear to be well versed in the physiology of mustelids. I must remember to consult you in the future with any ferret ailments. Thanks

Hopefully your ferts will have none, otherwise happy to try my best. Atb.

[Rake aboot 4,935]

Wikiferret

 

Anyway, back on track

 

You have been offered two Jills but you can`t afford to get them jabbed, or keep a vasectomised Hob

 

Easy answer,

 

 

DON`T take the Jills. Simples

[Tiercel 6,986]

Let me get this right. You plan to use the product as flea control, hoping that a side effect will be infertility in the jill?

 

It sounds to me like it could work but it would not pull the jill out of season just make the mating (that would pull the jill out of season) non viable, if indeed it does act as a fertility inhibitor?

 

TC

Edited February 6, 2013 by tiercel

[leegreen 2,173]

 

I mean I've never had a problem with my Jill's being in or out of season.

 

Jill's in season bleed, when they bleed for a long time they start to suffer from "anaemia" and come out of season. Once the blood levels build up, the Jill comes back in season and this will be the cycle. If this continues to happen with an inadequate diet your Jill could die. If you feed quality food such as whole animals you won't suffer from these symptoms.

 

I once asked a vet about death in female ferrets while in season and why I had never suffered. He said because of the diet your feeding and gave me the above information.

And just to add, in all that time I have bred 6 litters, just to get replacement ferrets.

 

Hope this helps

 

Please anyone, feel free to correct me.

Get a new vet.

 

Jills bleeding when in season is not good at all, ferrets do not menstruate as you have described.

 

Allowing jills to remain in season causes Oestrogen Toxidity, this causes bone marrow to significantly reduce production levels of and/or produce non-functioning rbc, wbc and platelets, leading to Aplastic Anaemia, infection, and internal hemorrhage.

 

Mochastorm is correct in stating that diet has no significant bearing on these particular reproductive issues. Atb.

Cheer's buddy.

 

The vet in question was a customer and thankfully I wasn't paying him ( I don't like paying vets ).

I find it hard to believe that in all my years of having ferrets, that I've had no problems regarding the problems that you mentioned.

You say "no significant bearing on these particular reproductive issues" so are you saying that they have some affect or no effect and are you saying this from experience or scientific proof? And do you think anaemia has no affect in sick Jill's?

 

I have two Jill's here now one of 6 years and one of 4 years. None of them have been bred from and both of them as fat and healthy as any ferret should be.

My last jill died at the age of 9 and I think the jill befor that died at 11.

But as you say I may be very lucky.

[Mochastorm 68]

LG, I like you, value the advice of of a vet, they are the experts in their field. When you were given that advice, coupled with the fact that you had not experienced any problems, the evidence would tend to prove that the vet was right. In your position I would have been happy with that. I've kept jills for many years and haven't always taken steps to bring them out of season. The health issues have only arisen twice. My vet explained to me on the first occasion, in simple terms, the detrimental effect on the ferret. It would appear that ferret100 has access to the relevant scientific data. My view on this is from my own experience, and a certain amount of guilt regarding the skinny jil in my hutch at the moment who I should have had jabbed earlier in the year.

[youcanthide...BANG 1,051]

my ferrets love hard boiled eggs so was going to put what would be a fraction of the capsule inside it. also i wasnt going to give it as flea control only looking for the fertility effect. also i can afford the ferrets it just annoys me other can get the jab for as little as£7 but i have to pay £40 +

[youcanthide...BANG 1,051]

its also just that it will be £40 per ferret so £ for the both for one jab each, then if they come into season twice like many jills do pottentially it could cost me £160 per year. so am going to try the capsules on one of the jills and hob then try to utilise a vasectomised hob servise for the other

Edited February 6, 2013 by youcanthide...BANG

[ferret100 47]

 

 

I mean I've never had a problem with my Jill's being in or out of season.

 

Jill's in season bleed, when they bleed for a long time they start to suffer from "anaemia" and come out of season. Once the blood levels build up, the Jill comes back in season and this will be the cycle. If this continues to happen with an inadequate diet your Jill could die. If you feed quality food such as whole animals you won't suffer from these symptoms.

 

I once asked a vet about death in female ferrets while in season and why I had never suffered. He said because of the diet your feeding and gave me the above information.

And just to add, in all that time I have bred 6 litters, just to get replacement ferrets.

 

Hope this helps

 

Please anyone, feel free to correct me.

Get a new vet.

 

Jills bleeding when in season is not good at all, ferrets do not menstruate as you have described.

 

Allowing jills to remain in season causes Oestrogen Toxidity, this causes bone marrow to significantly reduce production levels of and/or produce non-functioning rbc, wbc and platelets, leading to Aplastic Anaemia, infection, and internal hemorrhage.

 

Mochastorm is correct in stating that diet has no significant bearing on these particular reproductive issues. Atb.

Cheer's buddy.

 

The vet in question was a customer and thankfully I wasn't paying him ( I don't like paying vets ).

I find it hard to believe that in all my years of having ferrets, that I've had no problems regarding the problems that you mentioned.

You say "no significant bearing on these particular reproductive issues" so are you saying that they have some affect or no effect and are you saying this from experience or scientific proof? And do you think anaemia has no affect in sick Jill's?

 

I have two Jill's here now one of 6 years and one of 4 years. None of them have been bred from and both of them as fat and healthy as any ferret should be.

My last jill died at the age of 9 and I think the jill befor that died at 11.

But as you say I may be very lucky.

It is tricky really because for condition/illnesses etc to be detected, generally physiological symptoms need to present themselves (other times certain problems may be picked up when animals being treated for something completely different). Conditions can be asymtomatic and therefore go unnoticed although there may be an underlying issue.

 

How/why prolonged, elevated levels of oestrogen in induced ovulators affect the bone marrow is currently unknown, what is known is that if oestrogen levels reach toxic levels (which may be different in individual jills) the bone marrow is no longer able to function properly leading to a host of issues and can cause problems that may be directly or indirectly related to being left in season.

 

Diet will not alter hormone levels but a diet rich in iron will certainly help with conditions involving blood loss. There are various types of anaemia, how each is treated will depend on the cause. My information is both from scientific/veterinary research and experience.

 

Destroying animals due to reasons that are easily avoidable is frustrating and one of the reasons for this happening is that non-exotic vets can give advise unsuitable for ferrets. It also offers no comfort to the owners. Atb.

[ferret100 47]

FAO: leegreen

 

Hopefully below link will work, this is a publicly available link to oestrogen toxidity in ferrets, hope this is informative for you.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2013142/pdf/brjexppathol00010-0125.pdf

 

Atb.

[joe14 98]

I would ring round, some vets are choosing to ignore the instructions and still doing the jill jabs charged per ferret and not by the whole bottle.