Balancing Meat With Complete...

[Sadie 55]

Split the dogs feed amount in two. Raw at one part of the day and complete at another. The two wont be in any digesting competition then. Just make sure the wife don't feed too much, she will kill the dog with kindness (weight gain).

[whippet 99 2,613]

I know a few sources say you shouldn't feed meat and complete together for digestive reasons. But I know lots that do with no problem. And it's not really any different to feeding raw meat and pasta or brown bread which I have always done.

 

I've just switched jobs and working some funny hours so just to make things easier when the Missus feeds the dogs I've got a bag of Gain 28 in to save her messing about with bread and veg and keepers mix etc.

 

I've just read on the website for gain that if mixing with raw meat you should add an extra source of carbs and vitamins and minerals etc.

 

I can see why they are saying this because feeding half gain 28 and half chicken mince you are unbalancing the "complete" feed.

 

But how important is this? Surely it's no different to feeding raw and guessing how much pasta and veg to add? And they are still getting some carbs and vitamins from the gain 28 albeit half the amount.

 

Cheers

 

Gaz.

IT WOULD BE ALOT EASIER BUYING PENNYS RUNNING DOG MAINTENANCE..........................INSTEAD OF POSTING ON HERE EVERY TEN MINS........LOL

(IT WAS A JOKE BILLY)

[sandymere 8,263]

The complete is pretty high protein so they advise adding in extra carbs to maintain the balance when adding meat.

As to amounts I tend to judge by eye and increase/decrease the complete to the amount of meat etc if I'm giving, half a rabbit and a portion of table scraps/veg/pasta then about a cup of complete., the more the scraps etc the less the complete.

Dogs digest it all pretty well so mixing meat and complete etc shouldn't cause a problem as they set their digestive conditions to the meal eaten with fat being one of the main determinates.

Occasionally I will feed just complete or just raw and this might well be your easiest option, let the missus feed the complete and when your there you feed the meat etc and avoid the complete and see if it balances out. At the end of the day if she's sorting your dogs then making it easier on her is likely a winner in the end.

Edited January 24, 2013 by sandymere

[weasle 1,119]

Always fed meat and complete,never a problem.

[hutch6 550]

Can anyone tell me a factual reason why a dog needs, what in a human diet would be, carbs?

 

We use carbs as a fast burning energy source but we also use the sugars created in our livers first. A dog's physiology is totally different to ours and how they get their energy is totally different.

 

Cereals and grains, that we class as carbs, are only used in complete dry foods as they are a cheap filler, to make bigger bags or portions nothing else, they do fudge all to your dog other than cause no end of issues.

[skycat 6,173]

From what I have read and learned over the years, dogs can and do use carbs, but their primary energy source, given the chance, is animal fat. I feed very little carbs at all: a small handful of porridge oats, slice of brown bread, or a small amount of brown rice. Even when I have fed no carbs at all I've not noticed any change in my dogs' energy levels providing they are getting enough fat in their diets.

 

What I have noticed, is that dogs which live outside need a lot more fat in cold weather. Adding extra carbs alone doesn't seem to keep the weight on them when they are working hard in the cold, and living in the cold as well. So, from this experience I deduce that they do better on increased fat rather than increased carbs when the temperature drops.

 

But I don't think it is as simple as all that. There is now evidence to suggest that different types of dog from different parts of the world have evolved to utilise different foods. Saluki types evolved to survive on a diet much higher in carbs, with less protein. A video I saw years ago showed that many Salukis in the desert lived on pitta bread and dates, with very little meat at all, and a bit of camel's or sheep's milk. And I have also noticed that my Saluki types do much better on a higher proportion of carbs in their diet, losing weight fast if they are only fed on meat, bone etc. They have slow twitch muscles designed for endurance running so in theory need less protein: or is it that evolution has enabled them to process carbs more efficiently than some other types of dog, purely because that was the food available?

 

I tend to feed my dogs more or less the same regardless of breeding nowadays, simply adding more fat or carbs to a meat and bone meal depending on what type of dog it is, and the amount of work it is doing. In winter, the terriers, which live outside with no heat, need at least twice the amount of food they get in the summer, but even the house dogs get extra fat, or at least the young, energetic and hard working ones do: even living in the house they burn a lot more calories when they are out in the cold weather than they do in the summer.

 

In general, the faster the dog, the more first class protein it needs to rebuild muscle tissue. This is my experience at any rate. But it's all calories in the end, and domestic dogs can use most foods to survive. Some are better designed for them than others, but I don't think that any manufactured food is as good as a properly balanced home diet of raw and bits and bobs. People can survive on pot noodles, but they won't be healthy if they do so. Having said that, a good complete food is better than an all meat diet: I know someone who reared a litter of pups purely on tongue and heart: three pups broke legs at around 15 months of age. Blood tests revealed that their bodies were totally lacking in calcium, so unless you know what you are doing, and you know the nutritional value of everything you feed your dog, you're better off feeding a really good quality complete food, where meat is the primary ingredient, and not one that is mostly cereals. That sort may be OK for sedentary pet dogs, but not really the best thing for hard working or very active dogs IMO.

[jambay5 191]

I agree with skycat, i feed mine dry with mince/lamb bones and anything left from the table, i would love to feed them on barf diet but worry about about the dogs nutrition!!

[vixen 528]

I feed my lot raw with a lower protein food and soaked brown bread nuggets and they do great on this , when i feed them only complete i found the australian formula really good for the overall condition, the gain i find ok for pups but doesn't work for my adult dogs, i wouldn't mix any of the high protein complete with anything else, just find it too much for some of my dogs protein wise.

[hutch6 550]

Guidelines for canine diets, following scientific gubbings, put carbs at about 4-7% of the diet. Most complete foods have a carb content around 65-%.

[skycat 6,173]

Guidelines for canine diets, following scientific gubbings, put carbs at about 4-7% of the diet. Most complete foods have a carb content around 65-%.

 

Yes< because it is cheaper to grow cereals than it is to grow cows!

[hutch6 550]

Yes< because it is cheaper to grow cereals than it is to grow cows!

 

Exactly, hence my paragraph - Cereals and grains, that we class as carbs, are only used in complete dry foods as they are a cheap filler, to make bigger bags or portions nothing else, they do fudge all to your dog other than cause no end of issues.

[jessdale 416]

Yes< because it is cheaper to grow cereals than it is to grow cows!

 

Exactly, hence my paragraph - Cereals and grains, that we class as carbs, are only used in complete dry foods as they are a cheap filler, to make bigger bags or portions nothing else, they do fudge all to your dog other than cause no end of issues.

that's what I don't understand. On a site were every other member is a canine nutritionist, no one drinks or smokes, everyone only eats stews made from free range game and veg from Thier own garden, stuff like gain 28 gets a good write up when it is basically a bag of cornflakes.?

[bunnys 1,228]

I know a few sources say you shouldn't feed meat and complete together for digestive reasons. But I know lots that do with no problem. And it's not really any different to feeding raw meat and pasta or brown bread which I have always done.

 

I've just switched jobs and working some funny hours so just to make things easier when the Missus feeds the dogs I've got a bag of Gain 28 in to save her messing about with bread and veg and keepers mix etc.

 

I've just read on the website for gain that if mixing with raw meat you should add an extra source of carbs and vitamins and minerals etc.

 

I can see why they are saying this because feeding half gain 28 and half chicken mince you are unbalancing the "complete" feed.

 

But how important is this? Surely it's no different to feeding raw and guessing how much pasta and veg to add? And they are still getting some carbs and vitamins from the gain 28 albeit half the amount.

 

Cheers

 

Gaz. gareth i wouldint get to much bothered feed the biscuit one meal the flesh and bone the other , the sole reason for completes is convenience , and theres times when its necesary for some . atb bunnys

[skycat 6,173]

Many people who feed complete do so for convenience and because they are worried about getting it wrong if they feed raw. Of course it takes a lot more thought and knowledge to feed a properly balanced home diet of raw carcases, the right amount of fibre, bone, protein etc etc, than to just open a bag of grub and fill a bowl, but with all the BARF websites around these days there is all the information you need, and it ain't rocket science. I think that most who feed complete really just do so because it is so much easier.

[rob84 112]

mine get raw only pork, beef, lamb and chicken, with the odd bit of cabbage, carrot and codliver oil once or twice a week, don't bother with mixing anything with it. I will never go back to complete now!