Different bang from HMR

[halamrose 24]

OK I know I was a dumbo but to cut a long story short here's the jist:

 

I bought a seconds hand Cz252 American yesterday privately yesterday after a hand full of test shots.

Dismantled and cleaned everything but the metal magazines, sorted the trigger and shot a couple of rabbits. So far so good.

 

 

This morning I took the gun out for some target work. First shot at a rabbit I only got a click - I had forgotten to work the bolt after inserting the magazine doh! After the first few target shots the rifle suffered repeated feed problems after the first 2 or 3 shots from a full magazine.

 

To remind myself not to try an load the cartridges which would jam and to avoid damaging good cartridges I loaded 3 used cases before 2 good cartridges. Maybe that was a mistake.

 

A couple of shots later I just got a click. Doh, I must have chambered one of the used cartridges I had put in the magazine. Eject the cartridge, check magazine, still a good cartridge in it. Odd, I must have loaded an empty in the wrong order (spotted my mistake yet? not the one I thought I had made).

 

Reloaded, a bit stiff, damn feed problem again (spotted next mistake?).

 

Careful aim and the strangest bang, a cross between a boom and bong. Lots of smoke and debris, cant open the bolt. Remove magazine, work the bolt a bit, remove bolt to find cartridge with it's back blown off.

 

So I guess that second click of the day was a duff cartridge which left it's bullet in the barrel. The second shot blew the case rather than push them both out.

 

Now I have 2 bullets stuck in the barrel, and my question is: How can I get the bullets out and will this have trashed the barrel and written off the gun?

 

Photos show the case that the back blew off from, notice the shape of the bolt face and sides where the extractors held it, an earlier split case neck and the next cartridge in the magazine.

Edited January 13, 2013 by halamrose

[JohnGalway 1,043]

I would have a gunsmith take a look at it. That's not to say there's anything wrong with the gun, or no other way to remove the bullets. I'd just prefer to have her checked over before I'd consider shooting it again to be on the safe side.

[tegater 789]

Lucky one there halamrose.

 

Not sure what will be causing the feed problems, unless the mag springs are weak, but in theory that shouldnt make that much difference.

 

Obviously a bad batch of ammo, which seems to get reported more and more at the moment although I have never experienced it with Hornady.

 

What has caused the dent in the 3rd cartridge, and the damage to the ballistic tip. That is some force that has damaged that, and the dent is soft rather than hard?

 

I can see there was some force there to seperate the base from the rest of the case, and obviously this was opened up on extraction as the bolt will have done its job and held the hole thing together until then.

 

CZ barrels are very strong and the charge is quite small, but I would hazard a guess there will be irrapairable throat damage there, and I wouldnt use it again until a good gunsmith has looked at it with a bore scope.

 

One thing I was always taught in my early rifle days, was if there is any problem with feeding cartridges in, or anything else unusual, STOP until you have investigated the cause.

 

A shame about what has happened and it needs investigating properly for me, but at least you werent hurt.

 

SAVE the rest of that batch of ammo, you might need it for compensation, if possible from the manafacturer.

[paulus 26]

that dented cartridge looks like there is a problem with the feed from the mag into the throat of the breech as i carnt see any other way it could get damaged like that You were very lucky it was only a small calibre any bigger and there would have been a chance that the bolt would have been blown out of the back of the rifle

[tegater 789]

The other thing to think about halamrose, is if you do go down any form of compensation route, and you havent indicated that you are, talking from experience you need to do nothing to the rifle now, i.e dont try and remove the heads etc, and commission a gunsmith to carry out a full inspection and report. If you dont do that there are to many other ways the manafacturer can get out of any responsibility.

 

The down side to that, is that the cost of the report may not be worth the value of the rifle, and the cost to try and recoup any money would lie with you unless you were successful.

 

If there is no damage though, and you are not after compo then none of what I have just said actually matters!!

[mattydski 560]

Lucky one there halamrose.

 

Not sure what will be causing the feed problems, unless the mag springs are weak, but in theory that shouldnt make that much difference.

 

Obviously a bad batch of ammo, which seems to get reported more and more at the moment although I have never experienced it with Hornady.

 

What has caused the dent in the 3rd cartridge, and the damage to the ballistic tip. That is some force that has damaged that, and the dent is soft rather than hard?

 

I can see there was some force there to seperate the base from the rest of the case, and obviously this was opened up on extraction as the bolt will have done its job and held the hole thing together until then.

 

CZ barrels are very strong and the charge is quite small, but I would hazard a guess there will be irrapairable throat damage there, and I wouldnt use it again until a good gunsmith has looked at it with a bore scope.

 

One thing I was always taught in my early rifle days, was if there is any problem with feeding cartridges in, or anything else unusual, STOP until you have investigated the cause.

 

A shame about what has happened and it needs investigating properly for me, but at least you werent hurt.

 

SAVE the rest of that batch of ammo, you might need it for compensation, if possible from the manafacturer.

 

i have seen this when the you load the mag, by pressing the rim of the next round too hard on to it, or trying to load one too many rounds in the mag..

 

I wonder whether the initial issue was an uncharged round?

[paulus 26]

Lucky one there halamrose.

 

Not sure what will be causing the feed problems, unless the mag springs are weak, but in theory that shouldnt make that much difference.

 

Obviously a bad batch of ammo, which seems to get reported more and more at the moment although I have never experienced it with Hornady.

 

What has caused the dent in the 3rd cartridge, and the damage to the ballistic tip. That is some force that has damaged that, and the dent is soft rather than hard?

 

I can see there was some force there to seperate the base from the rest of the case, and obviously this was opened up on extraction as the bolt will have done its job and held the hole thing together until then.

 

CZ barrels are very strong and the charge is quite small, but I would hazard a guess there will be irrapairable throat damage there, and I wouldnt use it again until a good gunsmith has looked at it with a bore scope.

 

One thing I was always taught in my early rifle days, was if there is any problem with feeding cartridges in, or anything else unusual, STOP until you have investigated the cause.

 

A shame about what has happened and it needs investigating properly for me, but at least you werent hurt.

 

SAVE the rest of that batch of ammo, you might need it for compensation, if possible from the manafacturer.

 

i have seen this when the you load the mag, by pressing the rim of the next round too hard on to it, or trying to load one too many rounds in the mag..

 

I wonder whether the initial issue was an uncharged round?

i did think of that but it doesnt explain the damage to the polymer tip

[mattydski 560]

Lucky one there halamrose.

 

Not sure what will be causing the feed problems, unless the mag springs are weak, but in theory that shouldnt make that much difference.

 

Obviously a bad batch of ammo, which seems to get reported more and more at the moment although I have never experienced it with Hornady.

 

What has caused the dent in the 3rd cartridge, and the damage to the ballistic tip. That is some force that has damaged that, and the dent is soft rather than hard?

 

I can see there was some force there to seperate the base from the rest of the case, and obviously this was opened up on extraction as the bolt will have done its job and held the hole thing together until then.

 

CZ barrels are very strong and the charge is quite small, but I would hazard a guess there will be irrapairable throat damage there, and I wouldnt use it again until a good gunsmith has looked at it with a bore scope.

 

One thing I was always taught in my early rifle days, was if there is any problem with feeding cartridges in, or anything else unusual, STOP until you have investigated the cause.

 

A shame about what has happened and it needs investigating properly for me, but at least you werent hurt.

 

SAVE the rest of that batch of ammo, you might need it for compensation, if possible from the manafacturer.

 

i have seen this when the you load the mag, by pressing the rim of the next round too hard on to it, or trying to load one too many rounds in the mag..

 

I wonder whether the initial issue was an uncharged round?

i did think of that but it doesnt explain the damage to the polymer tip

agreed.. that i cant explain...

[paulus 26]

they must be old rounds aswell as cci have stated that they solved the split neck on the cases problem a good while ago

[halamrose 24]

I found the charge from the round that failed in the magazine when I stripped it - both rounds in question are Remington The damage to the un-fired round happened in the backfire. I think the damage to the tip of that round was that it was burnt by the backfire.

 

Second hand rifle, second hand rounds and I did make the mistake of not properly investigating the click and thinking I had fumbled the reloading when mixing live and spent rounds. Right now I don't see a law suit in this - a lot of aggro for a couple of hundred quids worth of rifle. It seemed like a good deal despite the bluing being a bit ratty but I'm feeling a bit sore about it now.

 

Can ordinary people change the barrels or does that need special tools or heat?

 

Cheers,

 

Halam

[paulus 26]

I found the charge from the round that failed in the magazine when I stripped it - both rounds in question are Remington The damage to the un-fired round happened in the backfire. I think the damage to the tip of that round was that it was burnt by the backfire.

 

Second hand rifle, second hand rounds and I did make the mistake of not properly investigating the click and thinking I had fumbled the reloading when mixing live and spent rounds. Right now I don't see a law suit in this - a lot of aggro for a couple of hundred quids worth of rifle. It seemed like a good deal despite the bluing being a bit ratty but I'm feeling a bit sore about it now.

 

Can ordinary people change the barrels or does that need special tools or heat?

 

Cheers,

 

Halam

all rounds for the 17hmr are made by cci and just made to look different for the various companies that market them. the round should not have been damaged as it would have been under the bolt unless the bolt was blown out,

[tegater 789]

Very strange.

[halamrose 24]

There is nothing like asking for advice then ignoring it! So I got a rod and taped the bullet out using the end of screw driver as a hammer. It came out surprisingly easily - and only one bullet. A quick clean up and reassemble and out into the fields to check zero.

 

It all works just fine now, with better groups than I ever shot with the .22LR - happy again.

 

Looking more closely at the feeding problem while I had the stock and scope off it was easier to see what is going on. The rounds point much higher up after the first few rounds have fed through so maybe the shape of the follower is a bit off. I'll get a new magazine and see how that looks.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Halam

[tegater 789]

Glad you have sorted it bud. The other thing it might be as well as the follower, is if the previous owner has dropped them mag and slightly bent one or both of the lips. As with the follower, the reducing pressure on each round might slightly alter the angle the round is presented.

[halamrose 24]

Impressed by CZ, tough gun.