Permission help

[sureshot.177 49]

Hi guys this is just a quick one I've been shooting for just over 18months now and I'm really struggling to get land can anyone give me any advise on how to butter up land owners would be great thanks in advance dan

[hitemhard 7]

have a search through old post theres a good letter to copy send that out to as many land owners as you can.just look in the yellow pages to find them

[davyt63 1,845]

here you go Dan

 

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/topic/234652-permission-papers-waver-of-liability/

[hitemhard 7]

yep thats the ones!!!!

[sureshot.177 49]

Thanks guys looks very professional I will get more land if it kills me I do the tyres for a farmer I should go and ask him I always give him a good price same goes to you davyt63 you need tyres look no further

[Charmer 0]

Hello Mate

 

Can you remember me telling you when i bought the Stingray from you that i might get a permission or two, will i am seeing one of them Saturday so fingers crossed

I will let you know how it goes.

 

Also i am very happy with the Webley Stingray i got from you.

[sureshot.177 49]

It would be good if you did get it mate must be loads of rabbits around that area

Well jel hahah

[Thynne 2]

This subject comes up so often on all the forums and I do really feel for those who are not lucky enough to have secured a permission. So, I just thought I would add my tuppence worth regarding the best ways to gain that precious first permission (the first is the hardest) in the hope it will help any responsible airgunners or other shooters out there struggling to find somewhere to control vermin. I am coming from the angle that I am myself a landowner and for many years was responsible for running other farms and estates for a large national land/estate agent, I have many, many times been on the receiving end of permission requests and have seen/heard some good and, many more, not very good ones. I am well aware that a lot people who may be seeking permissions do not have lots of rural contacts or easy 'ins' into the agricutural/fieldsports community and it is mainly for these people that I make these comments and also with the younger shooter in mind although not exclusively. Please accept that they are big generalisations and may sound a bit flippant, but they are genuinely well meant....A lot of people who manage land in the country are pretty suspicious of anyone they don't already know. This is not because we are all in-bred hillybillies, but is born of experience which dictates that you learn to be pretty careful who you let on your land. It is not unknown for us to have apprehended a 'poacher' with long dogs who then claimed that 'so and so who does the vermin control said it would be alright', to find that a few items start to go missing from the tool shed, or worse someone drops into the yard saying they are looking for your new vermin controller by name and then that night the ATV or Landrover goes AWOL.....maybe an unguarded comment passed in a pub like 'you wouldn't believe the kit they have where I shoot'? I'm not suggesting that of anyone on here, just trying to describe the farmer's likely mentality. Generally speaking most farmers are delighted to get anything free and this includes vermin control, but only if they can feel real confidence in the potential controller. Getting past that initial confidence barrier is the main issue.To be honest, probably the least likely way to achieve success is just to cold call or write out of the blue to either a landowner or land agent. I'm not saying that it shouldn't ever be done, but only as a last resort. There are not going to be many available permissions left out there and I get probably 6 or 7 such letters a year for my own land and this seems to be increasing in frequency. There are going to be only a few available chances so getting it wrong at the outset will probably close that opportunity off for ever. There are more ideal ways to go about it with a higher chance of success. But like all things worth having, it has to be worked at. There is no doubt that personal contact (knowing someone who knows the LO or LA) or a personal recommendation is always the most likely way to get a precious permission. Often it can be difficult to get to meet the LO or LA but if you can get someone who knows or works for them to introduce you then so much the better. A great way to get into the inner circle is to offer your services beating on shoots within range of you, you will meet loads of people interested in various forms of fieldsports, get paid, get a a beater's day or two and you never know, the keeper may well have some rat, squirrel or rabbit problems of his own that he may need help with - once he has got to know you. Also, if you then do want to write to LOs in the area you can perhaps enlist their help, saying I am writing to you at the suggestion of Fred Blogs keeper at XYZ estate where I regularly beat who suggested that you would not mind if I dropped you a line to ask if I may be able to help with vermin/pest control on your farm/estate. For young air gunners, you could consider joining your local branch of the Young Farmers, all are welcome, you don't need to be involved in farming, just interested in the countryside in general. You will almost certainly pick up a permission in due course and you may have a great time to boot. Failing that, try to put yourself in places/events where you may get to know people who work with or are associated with the land. I once was manning a stand for my employer at a county show (tweed suit and all that) and a young lad of about 16 walked on to the stand, stood patiently whilst I said goodbye to someone else and then very politely asked me if we managed farms and whether there may be any opportunities to shoot vermin on any of them? In fact there weren't any at that time, but he left his telephone number and I mentioned it to one of our managers the next week who said he would meet him. The reason I did was because the lad was polite, not pushy and struck me as someone who didn't seem to 'know it all'. He was quite honest that his experience to date had been limited to plinking in the garden but was incredibly enthusiastic about getting into hunting. Also he had obviously taken the effort to scrub up and polish his shoes before coming out. (At the time he lived on what can only be described as a terrifying council estate in our nearest city. He now is in his thirties and is responsible for the deer management on a very big estate nearby, happily married, two kids and about 20 dogs and lives in one of the prettiest cottages in the county). So, the point here is that, as in many walks of life, people make judgements on you within seconds of meeting you. However your hard won meeting with a LA or LO has come about you need to give yourself every chance of success.(As if I haven't already been too patronising already, I am definitely going to appear so in this next bit)! So, for your meeting, whether it has come about by cold call, unsolicited letter or, far better, some form of introduction, remember you have one single goal and that is to get them to either consider granting, or to verbally grant, permission, not be to confused with doing any paperwork, running through ground rules, restrictions, timings or other arrangements. If you do reach that point, then fantastic, but don't rush this vital meeting and remember that your only aim is to come away with a maybe or a yes. the detail can and will be sorted out later.

Do:

• Turn up on time, but be patient if he is busy with something
  
• Make an effort with your appearance. Most people will have judged you within 10 seconds of seeing you. It is hard to change a first impression. You are trying to appear someone who is sensible, dependable and honest, in short, respectable. You don't need to put on a tie (although, its not a bad idea - we are a very old fashioned bunch) but do make sure your clothes are clean and appropriate. For example DON'T turn up in full DPM camo gear. Whilst you may wear it later when hunting, for a first meeting it will just make you look like a potential nutter. In fact, do not dress as though you are just expecting a quick chat and then to set out on his land with your rifle. Wear clean shoes or boots, probably not trainers. Remove all body piercings...you get the point (no pun intended). i.e try not to look like too much of a townie. You don't need to visit the local countrywide store and buy the full yokel outfit but do try to look like this is not the first time you have ventured outside the suburbs
  
• Look them in the eye and shake their hand, firmly, as you introduce yourself. Yes, I know, but you would be amazed at how many people don't. It makes you think that they might have something to hide
  
• Be honest about your experience and lack of any other permissions. Remember, the farmer has lived in the countryside all his life and will probably know a lot more about it than you. Despite all your hours on forums learning about the finer points of airgun vermin control he has probably been doing it himself since he was eight, although its unlikely he will know what MOA means, he will likely see through any blather. Hinting that you have lots of other permissions in a bid to convince him other LO's trust you is not necessarily going to impress him. Telling him that you have made every effort to 'learn' to control vermin responsibly by accompanying anyone who would take you out, probably will. In fact even if you have got loads of permissions already don't march in giving the impression that you can take or leave his, that you are doing him a favour and that you are a big expert on everything vermin...you'll just come across as a knob
  
• Be clear about what permission you are asking for. e.g He may have let the shooting rights over the land but need help with vermin around buildings and perhaps have a couple of areas where he needs rabbits controlled. Maybe he has had some problems with a particular fox.
  
• Make it clear that your biggest concern other than ridding him of vermin is to safeguard the safety of anyone on the farm, his livestock, machinery and buildings. If a shot is not safe, you will not be taking it. Also stress that you can be an extra set of eyes and ears on the ground to help with security, poaching, trespass, fly tipping etc
  
• Make it clear that you will take vermin control seriously. That you won't just turn up when the mood takes you but that you see it as a job that you are going to do for him to the best of your ability. Tell him you hope he will soon see a difference and that once you have got on top of it you will stay on top of it even if that means some blank visits. Those 'blanks' will be well worth it when you get a call on your mobile and a gruff voice says "farmer x gave me your number. says you've sorted his rats/rabbits....suppose you could come and have a walk round here if you wan't". Believe me, if you do a good job, those calls will come. I have got thousands of acres to shoot over but am mad about shooting rats and I am thrilled every time I get a call like that.
  
• Ask them whether they have had any vermin control shooting done previously and whether it went well or badly? What didn't they like about it? Reassure them you will not be making the same mistakes
  
• Have your telephone number already written on a card or piece of paper. Even if he turns you down, not storming off in a huff but parting on good terms and leaving your number may well pay dividends later (if he really doesn't like you, he may just pass your number on to his neighbour who he loathes)!
  

DON'T

• Focus on insurance (BASC) unless asked directly about it. Mentioning insurance justs put him in mind that 'something may go wrong'. Anyone can buy insurance, even nutters and criminals. Insurance only need come into the conversation if a/ he asks about it b/ you have 'closed the deal' and politely ask whether he would mind signing a simple permission slip, or c/ as a last ditch attempt to salvage the meeting that is not going well (NB IN my view is you are just sending out unsolicited letters then it is worth mentioning insurance up front)
  
• Ask too many questions in a bid to sound really matey and interested in his farming/life, unless you genuinely are. e.g How much did that ATV cost? Is that shed unlocked at night? Keep your questions specific to the task you are discussing.
  
• Make too many assumptions i.e. "I'll just turn up to shoot from time to time". he may have different ideas and want to place some restrictions on what you can and can't do until he has got to know and trust you
  

The list goes on and on.............. but I remember the day when I was about 10 when I was first told by a farm manager I could 'knock over a few of them old rats...if you can hit 'em'. It ranked with passing my driving test and one or two other 'firsts' best left to the imagination!

 

GOOD LUCK!!

Edited January 3, 2013 by Thynne

[sureshot.177 49]

Thank you thynne I've had to read it a few time (small brain hahaha) but it all makes sense I do fit tyres for one farmer who I do get on with quite well but never knew how to ask him well I'm at work covers in all sorts of crap ill have to dig a shirt out and go and see him in an evening thanks again guys

[fry 209]

i just knock and ask most of mine are horse people, so i make clear how quiet the rifle is and how ii will not shoot in a particular field when the nags are out in it. my brother n law a farrier was a fairly notorious character down my way an i worked with him from 11 to 15 so i have a chat about horses and drop in fully insured and clean safe shots. when i have got perms i go out of my way not to be noticed on them i,e park by one shoot the next then at christmas drop a card thanking them for continued permission with a bottle and what ever i have nice smoked chillies,coffee beans, pickled onions from me lotty ect. have hung on to 5 small perms for 3 years doing this. and 4 of them are adjoining which gives me some range. i shoot rabbits only though. no birds.