Plummers v patts

[johnny 777 53]

So Jonny if I get this right, the old good working plummers were so early on in the genetic make up they were really just out crossed Russell's. plus you have asked for a comparison between patts and plumbers yet you have then felt the need to over defend you obvious favourite of the two. This is not how you receive true answers to your question. I had my opinion on the wptc and the PTA made up for me yesterday when I pulled into my local food mill and there greeting me was the owners skinny little Plummer bitch, granted she's a fine moocher of rats and mice, but she is now in pup to a well bred Plummer dog of fine standing. When I asked what he worked, the guy was un able to comment yet he had a long list of firsts and seconds to real out. Black /fell/patterdales call them what you want have hundreds of years of working heritage and thousands upon thousands of good dogs that earnt their working name. I believe plummers are still earning their right to be called a breed let alone the right to be compared to true

. Yes Russell's crossed Russell's which had working certificate worked to ground I aked the question yes I favour plummers and yes you favour patts that's your opinion ALB

[CorkyJohn 808]

Are you saying that a dog that has achieved a working certificate through hunt service must be a good one & something worth breeding from?

[johnny 777 53]

Not in all cases but in plummers case yes. Now I think this post has digressed enough ALB

[CorkyJohn 808]

Lmfao

[johnny 777 53]

Lmfao at the 70's pornstar photo, since you stated posting

[Billy Warren 43]

Iv sed this before how many pats/fell dog out there workers,show and pet numbers we will nether know but we all know there's alot moor working/show pats that there are plummers in hole so there's going to be moor working black as thay have been moor established as a breed/type of terrier and the way Plummer went about it upsetting other established terrier men

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Swagboy,a very sensible post and accurate,there have been some good posts put up on here and barring a few personal issues we all seem to have an honest opinion by our own experiences and this is where we have our differences,we can all only comment on the dogs we've seen work and have owned ourselves,I personally would say 90% of plummers will never see earthwork but those buying patts/fells and lakies are usually bought as a digging dog and I have never seen one fail,I suppose thats because all the patts,etc are bred just for digging,my only problem I personally have had is that they can be too hard,you only have to look at the avatars of you lads arguing in favour of them,dogs like those are outdated now in this country and are illegal to enter an earth,they were fine years ago when nobody knew what they were used for but now your kid walking in the park with a marked up dog would be reported for cruelty and if you've not had veterinary treatment for its wounds you will be taken to court,FACT.We all live in a goldfish bowl nowadays with modern technology,mobile phones,camera's etc and joe public roam everywhere so the chances of getting a pull by the "old bill" are high in this country now,I hunt 7 days a week on 2 large estates and surrounding farms as "vermin control" and I have been checked by the helicopter twice and police once in 12 months,the RSPCA are called out to check your dogs for any damage and they will then come to your house and check any other dogs you may keep,so you will see why I keep Plummers as an all rounder,as fireman say's you can have the odd dig in preservation of game but a bayer is all that is required and all I keep these days,anybody wishing to keep dogs for the rest of their lives have to try and keep working their dogs within the constraints that have been placed upon us,a patt/fell or lakie is a liability for me nowadays and I am sorry to say I will never own one again,for me Russells/Plummers will keep me in work and doing what I've done and loved all my life where as patts will lose me my freedom to pursue vermin on a day to day basis,untill we get the laws changed then we're F*cked,WM

[johnny 777 53]

is this good enough for you bob this my last post

[johnny 777 53]

outa here

[BS40liam 203]

A chap I'm doing a job for atm has a patterdale that he keeps around the small holding for rats but on discussing about this topic earlier on to day he said "you can take a digging dog ratting, but you can't take a ratter digging" his oppinion being if you wanted a earth dog but to do a bit of ratting and maybe bushing then get a pat, but if you want a dog for just out n out ratting and bushing then get a plummer......this is of somebody elses oppinion so don't slate me for it lol! Just thought I'd add to the topic.

[swag 54]

Wirral country man, I have no intention of disagreeing with a well constructed and articulate opinion. But I believe that we may start seeing a light at the end of this political prison we have been placed in. I am the first to admit that my dogs do not see as much work as they should, there are only so many troublesome foxes on shooting estates taking game birds. That's why it is so very important for those of us that keep and work black dogs to perserver, as losing this wonderful creature would be beyond remorse.

I too own a Plummer, he's an amazing ratter, champion busher, and a good friend ( used to be my house dog till he took a dislike to children). However on every attempt to enter the dark he has failed. I dred the day that my young son turns round to me and says " tell me some stories about the old black dogs dad. " or " dad, why don't you go digging anymore? "

Not all black dogs are subterranean wrecking balls, my line likes to use its head, do its job and live to fight another day. Black dogs that you can dig to week in week out with what seems to be minimal damage compared to dogs I've owned before. I'd like to think that a man in your position who has access to so much possible terrier work would walk the line. Sit on the political tight rope, take the visits from the RSPCA, answer the questions of the uneducated and naive. They can only persecute you if you break the law.

I don't mean to question the choices you have been forced to make, it just sickens me the way we have to act, change, make do, to continue working our brave little heroes.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

So we are all agreed that black dogs are better by far and plumbers[so spelt as all his dogs were shit at pipe work ,lol] are at best yappy rabbiters ,rabbiting being not a form of work but a form of riot in working terrriers .Any dog brought up right will rat ,fact .Dont care what may be said but ive seen them all and a dead rat is no deader if killed by a plumber. Theres been a few plummer owners full of it on here so in accordance with the topic title I will open an invite to any plummer breeder to bring his dogs to a session on the rats with me and then to dig to each and every one brought as i will and we will see whos the all rounder .My moneys on silence from the plummer lads .

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Swag,I can put my hands on well bred patts off top dogs as I have some very good friends in this country,Ireland,France,Holland that keep the right type in fact some are paid to remove badgers in europe,but the hassle involved is too much to bear,I've been arrested and taken to court many times down the years (never convicted),I have been charged with every assault up to attempted murder (again not convicted in crown) and it simply is not worth giving up a nice life for the sake of hanging on to a long gone dream,at best we shall only ever get back is licenced hunting with terriermen,I am reasonably well educated and retired 12yrs ago from a good job aged 42yrs to play out with my dogs,ferrets,hawks, guns,there are not many that will live the life I do each day without looking over their shoulder on prime land,the areas I hunt have badger watch and police everywhere,I've had some close scares when my Plummer has dropped on things he should'nt as there is not much room for manoevre in a court of law,you cannot reason with these people that it was not your intended quarry,you may get away with an accident now and then but it is easier to avoid owning a dog that will get you in trouble,I have always owned plummers and hybrids to nuttalls fells as well as stronger dogs but for the last ten years I do not need anything more than my own line of Plummers for the work I do now,I endeavour to stay within the law at all times and regardless of what some folk may say there are some that will work to ground to a decent standard,WM

[fireman 10,935]

So we are all agreed that black dogs are better by far and plumbers[so spelt as all his dogs were shit at pipe work ,lol] are at best yappy rabbiters ,rabbiting being not a form of work but a form of riot in working terrriers .Any dog brought up right will rat ,fact .Dont care what may be said but ive seen them all and a dead rat is no deader if killed by a plumber. Theres been a few plummer owners full of it on here so in accordance with the topic title I will open an invite to any plummer breeder to bring his dogs to a session on the rats with me and then to dig to each and every one brought as i will and we will see whos the all rounder .My moneys on silence from the plummer lads .

Feck it your cock is deffo bigger than mine but i'll have a day out ratting and a dig with you but i ain't no "plummer breeder" and only have 1 plummer but i'll bring a russell or two and just have the days sport and if you want to judge a whole breed on one plummer then it makes no odd's to me as me and my dogs will have had some fun anyway and they have feck all to prove to me,i'm just blagging the offer of a day out somewhere new with different folk

[swag 54]

Fair enough mate, wouldn't mind being in that position myself in a few years, Ill carry on holding on to a distant dream because that's my nature. One day when all avenues have been exhausted I may drop the black dogs and buy a couple of spaniels, living my days out on a beating line talking about 14 foot digs and terriers strong as lions. Or maybe my misses will eventually listen and we will be on the ferry to Norway. Happy hunting. Ha ha the statement is a lie in itself. My final note is a thank you to the old boy I met this evening, I bought a terrier box off him as he has finally had enough of looking over his shoulders. His big strong black dog has nothing to look forward to but reminiscing by the fire. His lurcher just a stroll here and there on an afternoon. He still talked about his evenings out with the bullet gun but not with the vigour he spoke of the black dogs sire, another one bites the dust.