Plummers v patts

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

were you one of the lads who "worked " for him....

always had a few around his place

[stormyboy 1,352]

i often wonder why some folk have so much to say on subjects they obviously know very little about. .

 

Its called a bandwagon CS. A little knowledge and all that........

[CorkyJohn 808]

Brian plummer knew exactly what he was doing with the help of other. These little red and white terrier we seen today are a testament to the great man himself. He has produced a fantastic all rounder TERRIER that are second to none and in my opinion they will just keep getting better and better

so why did you ask in the first place, you're obviously smitten with them. Why is there more negative views on these terriers than positive if they're such wonder dogs? Great man....are you 15 yr old & love reading?

[johnny 777 53]

First of all I love working terriers full stop. No matter whats in they make up i just wanted opinions, yes i do favour plummers but i have heard good things about patts but never owned one. secondly this debate isn't over. And last but not least the man knew a lot more than you

[tinytiger 840]

Brian plummer knew exactly what he was doing with the help of other. These little red and white terrier we seen today are a testament to the great man himself. He has produced a fantastic all rounder TERRIER that are second to none and in my opinion they will just keep getting better and better

i wouldnt say that theres anybody breeding any breed of dog that knows exactly what theyre doing.The first dogs i ever saw dug to were out of a beagle bitch by an unknown father(she got lost from a pack and was living wild in a local bog for 4 0r 5 months until a localterrierman made a trap to catch her).They were all fairly good but the beagle they were out of was handy enough below ground as well

[youngo 20]

If the beagle blood was added for the nose on these terriers, then why didn't plummer use working beagle blood instead of the american kennel club dog ??. Its only my own opinion but I think the beagle was added firstly for the coat pattern and secondly for the nose after all, he was trying to create a new type or breed of terrier rather than a working strain. Again only my opinion, not trying to cause any arguments

[Britishbull24 131]

Johnny as you know I love plummers. Otherwise I wouldn't own one. You say you have never owned a patt and your curious about them. I'd say get out with some lads with a decent strain and dig to one. It will open your eyes pal. Like iv said I love my Plummer pup and he has been faultless in anything asked of him. But his biggest test will come at the end of this season. But if wanted a dog in my kennel to dig to. I'd get the black stuff in without hesitation.

[johnny 777 53]

Brutish bull let us know if he passes the test am sure he wil. Youngo it's a bit controversial to say Brian plummer didn't want a working terrier strain in fact it's nonsense

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Here's a pic from around 1980 when he still called them Russells

 

 

 

The little plummer in this pic(pre-ban before the mods get on) was a good little bolting bitch but anything that would'nt shift longer than 20 mins or so the red patt was used,she destroyed everything in her path and never gave an inch above or below, she was bred by "George Hardy" and I used her all over the country,from rock cairns to sandy soil and always stayed untill dug,she in my eyes is a specialist digging dog,I also kept 100% dogs for many years off Brian Nuttall as he only lives 30 mile away and never seen one of his fail,we used to run on his pups untill we had dug to them a few times then swap them for a few more,it was a good arrangement for us both as we both gained something out of it ,a true gent in every sense of the word,all these dogs were bushed and worked all quarry but the little plummer was exceptional at ratting,rabbiting and could fly through cover quicker than anything as she was only 10"tts and weighed about 11LB,I was given this little bitch along with another to bring on and test on fox by Brian Plummer himself during his developement of the dog he was trying to produce,now this is where I will differ from you Jonny 777 as unlike you I thought Plummer was a crank and very difficult to get on with,he seemed to surround himself by educated people with little or no idea of terrierwork or as has been said before, young lads that were easilly impressed by his stories,"FAME" bit him on the arse and I don't think he actually worked anything other than rats after that as he was too busy with writing books and television appearances,he did carry on developing the breed towards his goal but always suffered with their size,there were too many that were bred too big for earthwork and this is were we get the split of size that is apparent in "remlap" lines (small stocky earthdogs) and all the show stock that is about today but I'm sure "Stormyboy" can tell us more as he was instrumental in keeping the working lines going along with "Derek Palmer",I would say most of todays working Plummer earthdogs have his old lines in them,I was lucky enough to have owned a double bred "VANDAL" dog that was a great all rounder,Plummer's health suffered because of the stress he put himself under with contract book writing and stupid bets to do with recreating long gone breeds and working and obedience types,after his heart attack he came out of hospital to find his main plummer studs and bitches had been taken off to different parts of the country and so the PTA was formed to help him finish off its developement,unfortunately thats were the breed has never recovered from,he was thrown out of his own plummer association and the splits from that to other clubs has killed off most of the working dogs in the pursuit of show dogs and size control was totally lost,in my opinion the developement of this breed type has never been finished and without the unification to a single club to oversee the health and size,work ethics,etc then we will never see his dream fulfilled,those of us that have worked the decent ones fully realise what a plucky intelligent terrier they can be,I run my own line these days thats only focus is work and terriers of the right size and temperament,they are unregistered by any association or club which gives me the freedom to pick and choose a stud or bitch from any line I choose,I shall end this by saying up to the year 2000 most of my better terriers were plummer/fell crosses but since then have endeavoured to produce the plummer breed standard dog that can adhere itself to his original breed standards,I'm sorry if this was longwinded but as most seem to have little or no knowledge of its developement this quick version seemed needed,WM

[CorkyJohn 808]

Fair play Wirral, thorough reply mate

[johnny 777 53]

Fascinating post wirral as are all your posts. I never met Brian so I can't say what he was like as a person but I do think the dogs he produced are not only a fantastic working terrier but great lookers and the man does deserve credit for what he achieved it pisses me off when people slate him when he is not here to defend himself and let's face its the people that slate him will probably never achieve such goals in life. Anyway that's my view

[CorkyJohn 808]

Well I've met Plummer the once & found him arrogant. Might have been something to do with the amount of crawling arselickers he had around him though. Cant judge him on one meeting

[turkish 290]

plummers are only showdogs ,fells for life

[MOO 730]

Fascinating post wirral as are all your posts. I never met Brian so I can't say what he was like as a person but I do think the dogs he produced are not only a fantastic working terrier but great lookers and the man does deserve credit for what he achieved it pisses me off when people slate him when he is not here to defend himself and let's face its the people that slate him will probably never achieve such goals in life. Anyway that's my view

you on drugs ?

[johnny 777 53]

Would you like to enlighten me a bit more moo