Plummers v patts

[wirral countryman 2,110]

We only seem to have posts from people with views on keeping and working one or the other except C.S. I've kept and heavilly worked both since the late 70's and both have their merits and drawbacks,the patt,fell, call it what you like is an out and out digging dog and barring the odd exception like jamie mc's little dog (which probably has a little of another breed in its background) do what you want and stay with their quarry untill dug to,the trouble is that too many of them like pain and once bitten only ever go forward,never giving an inch,Alimac,you asked the problems with entering this type of dog too early but I think you already knew the answer yourself and were just testing some of the other lads lack of experience,I've owned young patts that have gone too early in the past and they never last the course to old age,they get smashed up far too often and only have one way of working their quarry,they constantly lose teeth and sustain damage to their jaws making them useless for the job they were bought for,all the russell's and plummers I've owned that were good earthdogs were very good bolter's and bayer's,knowing how to give and take in the face of their quarry,their nose also enabled them to find very quickly, fells are ok at ratting but do not possess the drive or nose of a plummer,as for rabbits then plummers and russell's are in a totally different league than patts and fells,their nose and speed through the cover make them exceptional as catch dogs or for bushing out quarry of any sort,I read a lot about terriers following rabbits to ground and digging themselves into trouble but if trained in the early day's whilst still a puppy to "get out" whilst ferreting then plummers are intelligent enough to understand whats expected around rabbits, Plummer's are in a different league regarding brains and working other stuff like shooting,retrieving,hawking,ferreting and can be taught to work cattle,sheep etc,around the farm,so in my experience they are a genuine all rounder,my only exception to that would be a hybrid of the two,some of my best terriers have been hybrids of them both ,we also have to consider the law as it stands today,by entering a known hard or scarred up dog in an earth it is an offence and as I only work on permission and within the law these days then hard dogs are useless to me,a plummer can do any job for me on my daily vermin control rounds and are truely all rounder's,WM

[lee81 190]

...

[whippet 99 2,613]

Which is the best all round terrier ?

plummers have no comparison to a patterdale and i would use neither as an all rounder

[alimac 882]

We only seem to have posts from people with views on keeping and working one or the other except C.S. I've kept and heavilly worked both since the late 70's and both have their merits and drawbacks,the patt,fell, call it what you like is an out and out digging dog and barring the odd exception like jamie mc's little dog (which probably has a little of another breed in its background) do what you want and stay with their quarry untill dug to,the trouble is that too many of them like pain and once bitten only ever go forward,never giving an inch,Alimac,you asked the problems with entering this type of dog too early but I think you already knew the answer yourself and were just testing some of the other lads lack of experience,I've owned young patts that have gone too early in the past and they never last the course to old age,they get smashed up far too often and only have one way of working their quarry,they constantly lose teeth and sustain damage to their jaws making them useless for the job they were bought for,all the russell's and plummers I've owned that were good earthdogs were very good bolter's and bayer's,knowing how to give and take in the face of their quarry,their nose also enabled them to find very quickly, fells are ok at ratting but do not possess the drive or nose of a plummer,as for rabbits then plummers and russell's are in a totally different league than patts and fells,their nose and speed through the cover make them exceptional as catch dogs or for bushing out quarry of any sort,I read a lot about terriers following rabbits to ground and digging themselves into trouble but if trained in the early day's whilst still a puppy to "get out" whilst ferreting then plummers are intelligent enough to understand whats expected around rabbits, Plummer's are in a different league regarding brains and working other stuff like shooting,retrieving,hawking,ferreting and can be taught to work cattle,sheep etc,around the farm,so in my experience they are a genuine all rounder,my only exception to that would be a hybrid of the two,some of my best terriers have been hybrids of them both ,we also have to consider the law as it stands today,by entering a known hard or scarred up dog in an earth it is an offence and as I only work on permission and within the law these days then hard dogs are useless to me,a plummer can do any job for me on my daily vermin control rounds and are truely all rounder's,WM

"fells don't have the drive or nose of plummers" fecking heard it all now!!!!!! Lol lol lol lol

[Billy Warren 43]

Fell are moor harder dogs can do it all

Plummers are moor brainy and got moor stamina thay will work fox given the chance thay don't come on as fast as a fell dus to ground but at the end of the day thay are both terriers and will both do the job is down to you to pout the time in to a dog to get the best out of it no matter the breed

[johnny 777 53]

Is it not a good thing that plummers have the brains when it comes to ground work. I mean would you rather have your dog smashed up or not ?

[buster gonads 862]

We only seem to have posts from people with views on keeping and working one or the other except C.S. I've kept and heavilly worked both since the late 70's and both have their merits and drawbacks,the patt,fell, call it what you like is an out and out digging dog and barring the odd exception like jamie mc's little dog (which probably has a little of another breed in its background) do what you want and stay with their quarry untill dug to,the trouble is that too many of them like pain and once bitten only ever go forward,never giving an inch,Alimac,you asked the problems with entering this type of dog too early but I think you already knew the answer yourself and were just testing some of the other lads lack of experience,I've owned young patts that have gone too early in the past and they never last the course to old age,they get smashed up far too often and only have one way of working their quarry,they constantly lose teeth and sustain damage to their jaws making them useless for the job they were bought for,all the russell's and plummers I've owned that were good earthdogs were very good bolter's and bayer's,knowing how to give and take in the face of their quarry,their nose also enabled them to find very quickly, fells are ok at ratting but do not possess the drive or nose of a plummer,as for rabbits then plummers and russell's are in a totally different league than patts and fells,their nose and speed through the cover make them exceptional as catch dogs or for bushing out quarry of any sort,I read a lot about terriers following rabbits to ground and digging themselves into trouble but if trained in the early day's whilst still a puppy to "get out" whilst ferreting then plummers are intelligent enough to understand whats expected around rabbits, Plummer's are in a different league regarding brains and working other stuff like shooting,retrieving,hawking,ferreting and can be taught to work cattle,sheep etc,around the farm,so in my experience they are a genuine all rounder,my only exception to that would be a hybrid of the two,some of my best terriers have been hybrids of them both ,we also have to consider the law as it stands today,by entering a known hard or scarred up dog in an earth it is an offence and as I only work on permission and within the law these days then hard dogs are useless to me,a plummer can do any job for me on my daily vermin control rounds and are truely all rounder's,WM

"fells don't have the drive or nose of plummers" fecking heard it all now!!!!!! Lol lol lol lol

You saying that fell,s have a nose as good as a plummer , now ive heard it all, no terrier as a breed/type comes close, buster. Edited December 8, 2012 by buster gonads

[Peter Leemooch 160]

I got crucified for saying it before but I have not seen a plummer able to give or take what a patt can

[alimac 882]

We only seem to have posts from people with views on keeping and working one or the other except C.S. I've kept and heavilly worked both since the late 70's and both have their merits and drawbacks,the patt,fell, call it what you like is an out and out digging dog and barring the odd exception like jamie mc's little dog (which probably has a little of another breed in its background) do what you want and stay with their quarry untill dug to,the trouble is that too many of them like pain and once bitten only ever go forward,never giving an inch,Alimac,you asked the problems with entering this type of dog too early but I think you already knew the answer yourself and were just testing some of the other lads lack of experience,I've owned young patts that have gone too early in the past and they never last the course to old age,they get smashed up far too often and only have one way of working their quarry,they constantly lose teeth and sustain damage to their jaws making them useless for the job they were bought for,all the russell's and plummers I've owned that were good earthdogs were very good bolter's and bayer's,knowing how to give and take in the face of their quarry,their nose also enabled them to find very quickly, fells are ok at ratting but do not possess the drive or nose of a plummer,as for rabbits then plummers and russell's are in a totally different league than patts and fells,their nose and speed through the cover make them exceptional as catch dogs or for bushing out quarry of any sort,I read a lot about terriers following rabbits to ground and digging themselves into trouble but if trained in the early day's whilst still a puppy to "get out" whilst ferreting then plummers are intelligent enough to understand whats expected around rabbits, Plummer's are in a different league regarding brains and working other stuff like shooting,retrieving,hawking,ferreting and can be taught to work cattle,sheep etc,around the farm,so in my experience they are a genuine all rounder,my only exception to that would be a hybrid of the two,some of my best terriers have been hybrids of them both ,we also have to consider the law as it stands today,by entering a known hard or scarred up dog in an earth it is an offence and as I only work on permission and within the law these days then hard dogs are useless to me,a plummer can do any job for me on my daily vermin control rounds and are truely all rounder's,WM

"fells don't have the drive or nose of plummers" fecking heard it all now!!!!!! Lol lol lol lol

You saying that fell,s have a nose as good as a plummer , now ive heard it all, no terrier as a breed/type comes close, buster.

I quoted the sentence the lad wrote, as he claimed a fell doesn't have the nose or drive to hunt rats as good as a plummer, lol, it's a pretty poor terrier that can't mark a rat in a hole or under farm rubbish what ever the breed,, it can't be said its a good test of any decent terrier.. One things for certain a fell can hunt rats a damn sight better than a Plummer can work a fox, it's all well and good saying a Plummer will find quicker but if it ain't got the heart to then do its job you might as well stick its nose up it's arse..

[whippet 99 2,613]

We only seem to have posts from people with views on keeping and working one or the other except C.S. I've kept and heavilly worked both since the late 70's and both have their merits and drawbacks,the patt,fell, call it what you like is an out and out digging dog and barring the odd exception like jamie mc's little dog (which probably has a little of another breed in its background) do what you want and stay with their quarry untill dug to,the trouble is that too many of them like pain and once bitten only ever go forward,never giving an inch,Alimac,you asked the problems with entering this type of dog too early but I think you already knew the answer yourself and were just testing some of the other lads lack of experience,I've owned young patts that have gone too early in the past and they never last the course to old age,they get smashed up far too often and only have one way of working their quarry,they constantly lose teeth and sustain damage to their jaws making them useless for the job they were bought for,all the russell's and plummers I've owned that were good earthdogs were very good bolter's and bayer's,knowing how to give and take in the face of their quarry,their nose also enabled them to find very quickly, fells are ok at ratting but do not possess the drive or nose of a plummer,as for rabbits then plummers and russell's are in a totally different league than patts and fells,their nose and speed through the cover make them exceptional as catch dogs or for bushing out quarry of any sort,I read a lot about terriers following rabbits to ground and digging themselves into trouble but if trained in the early day's whilst still a puppy to "get out" whilst ferreting then plummers are intelligent enough to understand whats expected around rabbits, Plummer's are in a different league regarding brains and working other stuff like shooting,retrieving,hawking,ferreting and can be taught to work cattle,sheep etc,around the farm,so in my experience they are a genuine all rounder,my only exception to that would be a hybrid of the two,some of my best terriers have been hybrids of them both ,we also have to consider the law as it stands today,by entering a known hard or scarred up dog in an earth it is an offence and as I only work on permission and within the law these days then hard dogs are useless to me,a plummer can do any job for me on my daily vermin control rounds and are truely all rounder's,WM

"fells don't have the drive or nose of plummers" fecking heard it all now!!!!!! Lol lol lol lol

You saying that fell,s have a nose as good as a plummer , now ive heard it all, no terrier as a breed/type comes close, buster.

drive is certainly bull shite but nose ,............as a breed i wouldnt know but i know that some even being the same breed there scenting abilities differ,...............im no exspert just from what i have exsperienced ,..................i think it would be pritty narrow minded to say that one breeds nose is better than another breeds as all dogs are individually different and most of the time alot of people have so called breeds , but usually there are added things to there make up they dont even no about going back generations and kc doesnt really mean a thing and is just a guide, seen some socalled kc dogs which certainly have some alien blood in them ,..............

what is the evidence that supports the claim that plummers have better scenting ability than fells

[socks 32,253]

I would think that what may give the Plummer a better nose was the introduction of beagle blood when the type was being developed ...............

[whippet 99 2,613]

I would think that what may give the Plummer a better nose was the introduction of beagle blood when the type was being developed ...............

i didnt know that , that explains alot......cheers

[alimac 882]

Like whippet I have never owned a Plummer, so dont know how good there nose is but all the other terrier breeds have a nose that's more than capable of doing whats required of it.. As iv said its all well and good having a plummer with the nose of the deepest of scenting hound but if it ain't got the heart to do what terriers were bred for it ain't worth nish..

We're drifting a bit, I'm not interested who's got the better nose out of the two, all I'm stating is a fell type of a decent standard can & will hunt all legal quarry, wether that be today or 30 years ago, the same cant as often be said about the Plummer..

[johnny 777 53]

Plummers have fell blood in them

[johnny 777 53]

Plummers have fell blood in them

as well as bull blood