First Firearms Certificate help!

[AR177 588]

, although you can shoot vermin with 17hmr and a fox is classed as vermin its not a suitable calibre for Foxs,

 

No it is not classed as 'vermin' in the same sense rabbits and rats etc are, I think Fox is in its own class

 

 

 

Did I miss something, did you say fox IS Vermin or IS NOT Vermin?

My first statement was incorrect, Fox is NOT classed as vermin - I was confused by what the FAO had said to me but after doing some checking Fox is not classed as Vermin in the UK and it is in a class of its ownATBAdam

[AR177 588]

Wow reading up on this whole thing about vermin/foxs/HMR is hurting my head

 

There seems to be no legal legislation which includes fox as vermin and there also seems to be nothing to say you cant shoot them with .17hmr or 22LR

 

Just seems like it all boils down to what it says on your licence

 

Anyone else have any difinitive information on this?

 

ATB

 

Adam

[masmiffy 82]

Wow reading up on this whole thing about vermin/foxs/HMR is hurting my head

 

There seems to be no legal legislation which includes fox as vermin and there also seems to be nothing to say you cant shoot them with .17hmr or 22LR

 

Just seems like it all boils down to what it says on your licence

 

Anyone else have any difinitive information on this?

 

ATB

 

Adam

 

Check your 'Land Authority Form' the Cambs version has 3 sections Vermin Fox and Deer all with specified calibres

http://www.cambs.police.uk/firearms/forms/landauth.pdf

There is no mention of 'Long Range' on any part of any of the application forms so that is an irrelevant statement in my opinion.

 

The 'grey area' is if fox is considered vermin!

[halamrose 24]

Has anyone had any enforcement against them for shooting a fox without it being explicitly mentioned? I have 'any other lawful quarry' on my licence for both HMR and 22LR despite FEO saying only HMR suitable for fox. - Yet to shoot one though.

Edited December 3, 2012 by halamrose

[AR177 588]

The whole long range statement was part of what I wrote on my Application/Cover letter as justification for having a HMR and a 22LR - which the FAO was happy with

 

It doesn't say it on my licence

 

ATB

 

Adam

[masmiffy 82]

Just looked at the conditions on my ticket it says as follows.

 

The .17HMR rifle and .17HMR moderator .22RF rifle and .22RF moderator and the ammunition to which this certificate relates shall be used for shooting vermin and any other lawful quarry and for zeroing on ranges or on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is suited and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

 

The .223 Rem/5.56x45 rifle and .223 Rem/5.56x45 moderator and the ammunition to which this certificate relates shall be used for shooting foxes and any other lawful quarry and for zeroing on ranges or on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is suited and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

[SportingShooter 0]

Having seen the majority of the "Fox as Vermin" threads over the years, the overwhelming conclusion which normally takes at least three weeks to reach is usually that;

 

There is no definition of the word "Vermin" in law,

 

There is no case law or court cases that have been brought because someone has shot a Fox with only Vermin listed on their FAC,

 

If it states Vermin on your FAC, the likelihood of you being prosecuted and convicted is extremely low because there is so much ambiguity nation wide with individual police forces interpretation of different wording;

 

And finally, no one wants to clarify it by going to court

 

We all know that a trouble Fox is "Vermin" and seen as there is no legal definition, how can that possibly be challenged. You may have an FAC which states Vermin yet have nothing more than a .22LR, you may never have seen a Fox condition and may never see another person's FAC, so how would you be aware that there is a distinction in the first place, because Fox to you is "Vermin".

 

The only offences I can possibly see there are animal cruelty because of the relatively low energy figures for a rimfire, but it doesn't take that much energy to cleanly kill a Fox and a decent Shot will do the job at a sensible range with a clean kill. Which then rules out those offences.

 

The only slight snag is if you have a .223 specifically conditioned for Fox along with a .22LR for "Vermin" as you are then aware of the distinction, but there is still nothing to state you are wrong to shoot a Fox on a Vermin condition as there is no definition.

 

This debate will never be settled until someone ends up in court and I don't intend to test that theory

 

SS

[danielbickle 0]

Thanks for all the replies everyone and has given me a good deal of things to think about, but for the moment i will just be applying for my shotgun certificate as the rifles aren't really needed at the present time

 

now just to decide on what shotgun and start saving!

Many thanks

Dan.