Anyone ever had trouble with cramp

[archnighthawk 5]

Anyone ever had trouble with cramp in there dogs, my saluki greyhound last few times out after a run seems to cramp up at first it was odd once last time out he cramped twice in 5 runs and that was obviously the end of that night

[moonlighter 1,164]

Try adding beta cal to its feed. It's an electrlyte so will help prevent dehydration which can cause cramping.

[Ray Mears 272]

if a dog has been wet and just shoved in the moter until the next spot dogs come out tighter that a nuns c**t. i like to dry them off not because i am soft but because it stops them from cramping up and they will be ready to run when there out the motor instead of being stiff and end up pulling something.

[brazer 287]

Giving the dog a rub down loosen the muscles before you go out and when they are finished helps and keeping them hydrated also as acid build up gives them cramp just same as humans.

[sandymere 8,263]

Two most likely causes are the dog is not fit enough or if it’s getting stressed and panting excessively prior to the run ie on the journey to the meet. (There’s a longer version below.)

I start with the fitness.

 

 

Cramping, some thoughts on hypocapnia.

 

Thankfully cramping is not an overly common occurrence in dogs but

there are those that seem to suffer unduly and any dog can get cramp. To

my mind there are two common types, one is reasonable well understood, the other less so.

The commonest, and least well understood, is likely due to over exertion, an example

would be me mountain biking on Exmoor and doing a lot more than I’m

used and getting wicked cramp in my quads. A couple of months later

doing the same route at a faster pace no cramp, the difference

preparation in the form of two months training, Dogs suffer in much the

same way. The actual cause of the electrical impulse excitation that causes the muscles to spasm is not well understood but this relatively common form of

cramping, as with Exercise induced bronchspasm (EIB) and rhabdomyolysis (RMD), can be reduced significantly by appropriate preparation in the form of training.

 

The second form is another circumstance where cramping

is a major problem and, this in spite of good fitness, tends to be

seen in track dogs although lurchers and terriers can suffer. In these cases temperament is a major contributing factor and to examine this

particular problem I’ll go back to my early days.

 

Many years ago a fellow brought me a fair little track bitch for a bit

of a sort out, her problem was that she would cramp badly if kenneled

for any length of time prior to racing. This was a classic example in

that she would get herself very het on the way to the track and in the

kennel whilst waiting. There were and still are many causes proposed for

this problem and as many remedies that supposedly help, most of which

had already been tried without much improvement in her case.

 

I started with the basics of road work and gallops to improve fitness

and used electrolytes and vitamin E as these were thought to redress an

imbalance that was a contributing factor in these cases. After six weeks

I took her to a little permission and slipped her behind a hare. She ran

like a good un and although had no hope of success she certainly had

pace. With no cramping and nothing beyond a little stiffness over the

following days we were soon off to the flapping track at Huntingdon for

a trial one Sunday morning. The journey was reasonable short and she was

in the traps within a few minutes of arriving, again she flew no

cramping and a good time! I was well chuffed and booked a trail at

Henlow the next weekend. This time the journey was a little longer and

she was kenneled at the track for a while prior to trapping. For the

third time she flew out but alas locked within 50 yards with a major

cramp.

 

She went on to be a reasonably good flapper but never made it beyond

that, the owner took her back and I believe he continued at Huntingdon. A

well known trainer had had her prior to being brought to me and they’d

tried every supplement known to man but neither they nor I could find a

cure. Perhaps with more time we would have been able to better

acclimatise her to the racing experience and so reduce the stress that

was at the heart of the problem but the owner didn’t wish to invest in

a lengthy course of action for what was only ever going to be a middle

grader.

 

Traditionally lactic acid and or an electrolyte imbalance were blamed

in these cases but with the recent change of thought on lactic acid,

it’s now seem as an integral part of the energy cycle and not the bad boy any more it’s unlikely to be a causative factor. Then as these dogs don’t seem to have any ongoing electrolyte imbalance, this bitch had had bloods and they showed normal values this

theory also seems implausible. The stress response was a major clue but

at that time neither I nor my peers had any idea of the biochemistry

involved and just blindly followed a set course of adding electrolytes

etc.

 

Now anyone who has left a stressy dog in a car will have seen the

condensation that accumulates on the windows due to the excessive

panting. This tells use they are losing water, as this is via vapor from

breath we also know that they will not be losing a large amount of electrolytes, boils a pan of salt water and the water will evaporate as

vapor and the salt will be left behind. Some salts may be lost in drawl

but not an excessive amount. Consider an hours car journey followed by

an hour in the kennel and you can imagine how much fluid might be lost,

this can also be a couple of hours for a lurcher on the way out lamping

etc. So fluid loss must be having an effect but it’s hard to put the

whole thing down to this.

 

Next we should look at those electrolytes, muscles work via electrical

impulses and electrolytes are the way this is carried out so they must be

playing a part. This combined with the pH of blood needing to be in a

very narrow band, outside of this electrolytes become unbalanced, we may have a clue as to what is going on. Respiratory alkalosis, in this

situation a self limiting short term effect, could be the culprit.

 

In every day terms hyperventilation, breathing to fast, for an extended

time will lead to the body blowing off to much carbon dioxide, as this

is an acid in the blood the blood will become less acid, more alkaline,

which leads to a reduction in serum calcium, this could well be the reason for cramping. Its well known symptom in people with cramping being a commonly seen side effect of hyperventilation, hence why they were given a paper bag to breath into, it made them re breath their carbon dioxide in theory increasing it so reducing symptoms of faints, dizziness, fits, cramps etc.

 

Perhaps this is why the remedies don’t work in these cases; boosting

electrolytes such as potassium etc will not help as the body just

excretes the excess as there isn’t a true underlying deficit, the same

with bicarb, the serum levels always go back to the set mean. It’s

the hyperventilation that brings about the imbalance by temporarily shifting the balence rather than there being a true deficit.

 

This leaves us with behavioral intervention rather than supplementation as the best coarse of action.. So proper introduction to racing/working to reduce the stress response coupled with proper physical training to prepare for the exercise to be performed and one should get a reduction in the incidence of cramp, (in theory).

[Floyd17586 454]

Fcuking hell sandymere you muat have swallowed the book about cramping in dogs.lol.

[archnighthawk 5]

Thanks fella's a lot of things make sense in sandymere's post, he's a very excited dog from the minute he see the muck boots.

[jack68 628]

so what you saying then sandy..

[paulus 26]

Two most likely causes are the dog is not fit enough or if it's getting stressed and panting excessively prior to the run ie on the journey to the meet. (There's a longer version below.)

I start with the fitness.

 

 

Cramping, some thoughts on hypocapnia.

 

Thankfully cramping is not an overly common occurrence in dogs but

there are those that seem to suffer unduly and any dog can get cramp. To

my mind there are two common types, one is reasonable well understood, the other less so.

The commonest, and least well understood, is likely due to over exertion, an example

would be me mountain biking on Exmoor and doing a lot more than I'm

used and getting wicked cramp in my quads. A couple of months later

doing the same route at a faster pace no cramp, the difference

preparation in the form of two months training, Dogs suffer in much the

same way. The actual cause of the electrical impulse excitation that causes the muscles to spasm is not well understood but this relatively common form of

cramping, as with Exercise induced bronchspasm (EIB) and rhabdomyolysis (RMD), can be reduced significantly by appropriate preparation in the form of training.

 

The second form is another circumstance where cramping

is a major problem and, this in spite of good fitness, tends to be

seen in track dogs although lurchers and terriers can suffer. In these cases temperament is a major contributing factor and to examine this

particular problem I'll go back to my early days.

 

Many years ago a fellow brought me a fair little track bitch for a bit

of a sort out, her problem was that she would cramp badly if kenneled

for any length of time prior to racing. This was a classic example in

that she would get herself very het on the way to the track and in the

kennel whilst waiting. There were and still are many causes proposed for

this problem and as many remedies that supposedly help, most of which

had already been tried without much improvement in her case.

 

I started with the basics of road work and gallops to improve fitness

and used electrolytes and vitamin E as these were thought to redress an

imbalance that was a contributing factor in these cases. After six weeks

I took her to a little permission and slipped her behind a hare. She ran

like a good un and although had no hope of success she certainly had

pace. With no cramping and nothing beyond a little stiffness over the

following days we were soon off to the flapping track at Huntingdon for

a trial one Sunday morning. The journey was reasonable short and she was

in the traps within a few minutes of arriving, again she flew no

cramping and a good time! I was well chuffed and booked a trail at

Henlow the next weekend. This time the journey was a little longer and

she was kenneled at the track for a while prior to trapping. For the

third time she flew out but alas locked within 50 yards with a major

cramp.

 

She went on to be a reasonably good flapper but never made it beyond

that, the owner took her back and I believe he continued at Huntingdon. A

well known trainer had had her prior to being brought to me and they'd

tried every supplement known to man but neither they nor I could find a

cure. Perhaps with more time we would have been able to better

acclimatise her to the racing experience and so reduce the stress that

was at the heart of the problem but the owner didn't wish to invest in

a lengthy course of action for what was only ever going to be a middle

grader.

 

Traditionally lactic acid and or an electrolyte imbalance were blamed

in these cases but with the recent change of thought on lactic acid,

it's now seem as an integral part of the energy cycle and not the bad boy any more it's unlikely to be a causative factor. Then as these dogs don't seem to have any ongoing electrolyte imbalance, this bitch had had bloods and they showed normal values this

theory also seems implausible. The stress response was a major clue but

at that time neither I nor my peers had any idea of the biochemistry

involved and just blindly followed a set course of adding electrolytes

etc.

 

Now anyone who has left a stressy dog in a car will have seen the

condensation that accumulates on the windows due to the excessive

panting. This tells use they are losing water, as this is via vapor from

breath we also know that they will not be losing a large amount of electrolytes, boils a pan of salt water and the water will evaporate as

vapor and the salt will be left behind. Some salts may be lost in drawl

but not an excessive amount. Consider an hours car journey followed by

an hour in the kennel and you can imagine how much fluid might be lost,

this can also be a couple of hours for a lurcher on the way out lamping

etc. So fluid loss must be having an effect but it's hard to put the

whole thing down to this.

 

Next we should look at those electrolytes, muscles work via electrical

impulses and electrolytes are the way this is carried out so they must be

playing a part. This combined with the pH of blood needing to be in a

very narrow band, outside of this electrolytes become unbalanced, we may have a clue as to what is going on. Respiratory alkalosis, in this

situation a self limiting short term effect, could be the culprit.

 

In every day terms hyperventilation, breathing to fast, for an extended

time will lead to the body blowing off to much carbon dioxide, as this

is an acid in the blood the blood will become less acid, more alkaline,

which leads to a reduction in serum calcium, this could well be the reason for cramping. Its well known symptom in people with cramping being a commonly seen side effect of hyperventilation, hence why they were given a paper bag to breath into, it made them re breath their carbon dioxide in theory increasing it so reducing symptoms of faints, dizziness, fits, cramps etc.

 

Perhaps this is why the remedies don't work in these cases; boosting

electrolytes such as potassium etc will not help as the body just

excretes the excess as there isn't a true underlying deficit, the same

with bicarb, the serum levels always go back to the set mean. It's

the hyperventilation that brings about the imbalance by temporarily shifting the balence rather than there being a true deficit.

 

This leaves us with behavioral intervention rather than supplementation as the best coarse of action.. So proper introduction to racing/working to reduce the stress response coupled with proper physical training to prepare for the exercise to be performed and one should get a reduction in the incidence of cramp, (in theory).

vitamin e plays an important part in how efficiently the muscles utilize the oxygen within the muscles this is usefull in that shortage of oxygen within the performing muscles can indirectly increase the likelyhood of acidosis . the use of creatine can also be of benifit as it helps in combating the onset of lactic acid . a mild kidney tonic such as Neutradex can also be used when a dog is hard in work to flush the natural build up of muscle waste from the system. not my words but a good greyhound trainer.

[dytkos 17,863]

TRY ALSO PUTTING CHOPPED TINNED TOMATOES IN HIS DIET (31P TIN FROM ASDA)

 

CHEERS, D.

[Mixed Bag 603]

good read that makes a lot of sense

[paulus 26]

TRY ALSO PUTTING CHOPPED TINNED TOMATOES IN HIS DIET (31P TIN FROM ASDA)

 

CHEERS, D.

i always mix a tin in with their pasta, i also add a sprinkle of sf50. the tomatoes is to add pottasium you can also do this with the addition of losalt

[TOMO 27,411]

Cramps a b*****d when your on the vinegar stroke...................

[archnighthawk 5]

Yeah cheers D, an old timer on the greyhound circuit told me that a few weeks back but no joy will keep it going though. Tomo you must be doing it wrong lol

[rob190364 2,594]

Cramps a b*****d when your on the vinegar stroke...................

just swap hands Tomo