Members of UKIP

[JohnGalway 1,043]

And before someone mentions the good people of the proud nation of Iceland, realise they're actively looking to join the Euro.

[Malt 379]

You picked the wrong person to quote there John, I mentioned sweat FA about exports in my post..

 

You seriously think a country like Greece or Ireland wouldn't benefit from devaluing their own currency against the currencies of their trading partners mate? It's how countries used to be able to get themselves out of the shit when times were tough..

 

Totally agree fellas. If they were able to devalue their currency, their exports would get cheaper and outside investment would flood into the country to take advantage of the cheap labour and manufacturing costs..

 

Ahem ?

OK, I ballsed it up, but you still didn't answer my question!

 

Come on John, you must see it! Greek olive oil gets cheaper than Itallian olive oil so people round the world start buying it.. cheap olive oil and cheap labour are ideal for energy companies looking to invest in producing biofuels - outside energy companies then set up production in Greece to take advantage. That is one example using your original example of a prime Greek export.. Times like this require people to think outside the box.. You seriously think Greece can be saved by chucking the vast amounts of money into an ever deepening black hole?

[JohnGalway 1,043]

OK, I ballsed it up, but you still didn't answer my question!

 

Come on John, you must see it! Greek olive oil gets cheaper than Itallian olive oil so people round the world start buying it.. cheap olive oil and cheap labour are ideal for energy companies looking to invest in producing biofuels - outside energy companies then set up production in Greece to take advantage. That is one example using your original example of a prime Greek export.. Times like this require people to think outside the box.. You seriously think Greece can be saved by chucking the vast amounts of money into an ever deepening black hole?

 

Now write out 100 times "I will never doubt JG again" LOL.

 

I've answered the question in another post. They won't be able to afford their imports, daily regular goods we all buy. Their banks will be fúcked overnight, no money for business loans, no money in the ATM's, who invests in a country with a fúcked banking system? Their top heavy civil/public sector workers won't get paid, leading to massive civil trouble. If you think the scenes from Greece are bad now, then well and good, cut them loose and see what happens. Their debts would be in Euros, their new currency would spiral downwards out of control. They'd have to default on everything, who'd lend them money? If you lend me €100 and next week I tell you you're not getting it back, the the week after I come looking for €500 loan from you, what are my chances? Their Govt provided services would cease.

 

But sure, at least they'd have their olive oil, right? Look up the export value of their olive oil. Think about their debt level. My money is on the side of the bet that tells me those two figures are about as close as the Sun and the planet Pluto

 

You're also assuming they have a good work ethic, they don't.

 

There's only one way out for Greece and it won't be fast, it will be debt forgiveness and a lot of pain at home.

[mushroom 13,304]

John the devaluation of a local currency enables them to be competative on the global market.

 

If Greece was to go back to the Drachmar it would instantly take their economy valued against the Euro to a devalued state, also as Wilf pointed out debt means feck all when talking nations so paying Europe back wouldn't mean nowt to the Greeks. Add this up and you have an economy able to absorb global shocks by keeping local prices reasonable and attractive to international investors also it enables the Greeks to take control of their own economy.

 

Now the downside and it's a biggie; as you pointed out when prices outside of Greeks economic influence rocket take wheat for instance. Then for Greece to buy these products would cost more than if they were purchased in Euros as the Drachmar would have less buying power than the Euro but take into account other factors like growth, EU trading schemes and austereity measures and it could really work out well for the Greeks.......

 

Then again it could fook them up even more thats the fun with international markets and economies :laugh:

[Malt 379]

 

I've answered the question in another post. They won't be able to afford their imports, daily regular goods we all buy. Their banks will be fúcked overnight, no money for business loans, no money in the ATM's, who invests in a country with a fúcked banking system? Their top heavy civil/public sector workers won't get paid, leading to massive civil trouble. If you think the scenes from Greece are bad now, then well and good, cut them loose and see what happens. Their debts would be in Euros, their new currency would spiral downwards out of control. They'd have to default on everything, who'd lend them money? If you lend me ¤100 and next week I tell you you're not getting it back, the the week after I come looking for ¤500 loan from you, what are my chances? Their Govt provided services would cease.

 

But sure, at least they'd have their olive oil, right? Look up the export value of their olive oil. Think about their debt level. My money is on the side of the bet that tells me those two figures are about as close as the Sun and the planet Pluto

 

You're also assuming they have a good work ethic, they don't.

 

There's only one way out for Greece and it won't be fast, it will be debt forgiveness and a lot of pain at home.

 

I know they'd really hit rock bottom if they left with hyperinflation and the debt issues you describe, but who knows if it would it be better for them in the longer term? They might find themselves swapping 20 years or more of lingering pain as things stand now for a much shorter, sharper dose of pain.. It's like toothache - would you rather the short but intense pain of having the bad tooth removed, or would you rather leave the fecker in there giving you a constant dull, ache for a few years in the hope it gets better by itself? I know which I'd prefer..

[JohnGalway 1,043]

I would do as we in Ireland are doing. Keep poking away at the debt, and keep working away on our exports plus anything else that creates a euro, buck, pound, yen or yuan.

 

For Greece to leave the Euro would be too much of a shock to that country, it wouldn't just suffer, it would fail.

 

But I, honestly, have little sympathy for them. They cooked their national books and lied to get into the Euro, they don't/won't/can't collect their taxes, and don't seem to want to work. A lot of their current situation is down to their own actions.

 

They need to get their debt down, they can't afford it.

Edited November 27, 2012 by JohnGalway

[scothunter 12,609]

id class greece as dead wood,cut all strings with them and set them adrift.f**k em they dont deserve f**k all. they lied and scammed there way in.

[JohnGalway 1,043]

John the devaluation of a local currency enables them to be competative on the global market.

 

If Greece was to go back to the Drachmar it would instantly take their economy valued against the Euro to a devalued state, also as Wilf pointed out debt means feck all when talking nations so paying Europe back wouldn't mean nowt to the Greeks. Add this up and you have an economy able to absorb global shocks by keeping local prices reasonable and attractive to international investors also it enables the Greeks to take control of their own economy.

 

Now the downside and it's a biggie; as you pointed out when prices outside of Greeks economic influence rocket take wheat for instance. Then for Greece to buy these products would cost more than if they were purchased in Euros as the Drachmar would have less buying power than the Euro but take into account other factors like growth, EU trading schemes and austereity measures and it could really work out well for the Greeks.......

 

Then again it could fook them up even more thats the fun with international markets and economies :laugh:

 

There's no could about it Mush, there's no charity, mercy, or conscience (spelling) in "The City" and their ilk, they'd squeeze Greece for every cent they don't have.

 

Ireland was a target before we went into the bailout, the pressure on us was relentless. Don't forget that it wasn't so long ago the UK had the IMF in town

 

An economy doesn't exist without a working banking sector. A successful economy isn't one that's chaotic and fragile.

 

They'll stay inside the Euro and threaten their way to a more manageable debt level, IMO. Too much to lose for the likes of Germany for the Euro to collapse.

[JohnGalway 1,043]

id class greece as dead wood,cut all strings with them and set them adrift.f**k em they dont deserve f**k all. they lied and scammed there way in.

 

Then the international vultures move on to Italy, then Spain, etc. It won't solve the problem.

[scothunter 12,609]

tbh mate i dont care about those nations,they went into this thinking it was a massive cash cow,now its went tits ups they are bleating about help.well we in the uk are on our arses and our people are bearing the brunt of cuts and loss of jobs etc..so f**k them.we cut and cut and cut to get our economy sorted and in the other hand we hand billions away.i seriously dont see the logic in that.especially when the rest of europe dont even like us.aye give us your money britain,but we cant stand you.

[Nik_B 3,790]

Italy is borrowing money at 7% to lend to Spain at 3%. This is the madness of the EU/ECB/Euro.

[JohnGalway 1,043]

Lol, I don't have all the answers to the Euro problems, I was only butting in to make a point about Greek exports.

[JohnGalway 1,043]

Consider the article below, if the Euro were to fail and the associated problems within the Eurozone countries in the aftermath:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports#_

[Malt 379]

tbh mate i dont care about those nations,they went into this thinking it was a massive cash cow,now its went tits ups they are bleating about help.well we in the uk are on our arses and our people are bearing the brunt of cuts and loss of jobs etc..so f**k them.we cut and cut and cut to get our economy sorted and in the other hand we hand billions away.i seriously dont see the logic in that.especially when the rest of europe dont even like us.aye give us your money britain,but we cant stand you.

These cuts are supposed to be going towards bringing the deficit down in this country and hundreds of thousands of government jobs were cut to save money, (no real loss, some of them..) yet this government is borrowing more now than the last one and the debt is getting bigger.. We pay as much interest servicing debt as we spend on defence.. The money being borrowed is our money in the first place so who the f**k's pockets are getting lined by the interest? It's certainly not ours.. It's no wonder the very rich at the top are getting ever richer even now, and they're not even doing so off the back of their own bloody money!

 

Just googled this:

 

http://www.debtbombshell.com/

[graham4877 1,181]

Italy is borrowing money at 7% to lend to Spain at 3%. This is the madness of the EU/ECB/Euro.

WTF!