Does anyone hunt with old/vintage rifles and open sights

[Grayling 56]

I have a 1919 BSA no 2 standard (.22) still pushing 10.4 ftlbs with proper Eley Wasps, this 93 year old underlever is still a joy to use and shoot and although made just after WW1 its still a more than viable hunting tool if used at reasonable/sensible ranges (around 25 yards max), certainly for Grey Squirrels where the ranges are normally between 10yds to 20yds max. Although stalking Rabbits is a wee bit more difficult, not impossible but thats more down to having a leg full of titanium, attached to a 51 year old carcase than any fault of the rifles . Using this lovely old piece of kit really takes me back to the mid/late 70s when I first got into this hobby and is about as pure and simple as it gets.

 

I am at this moment resurrecting a 1913 BSA Improved Model D no 1 (.177) which will take over from the no 2 standard when its rebuild is complete. This should give me the more user friendly trajectory of the .177 and should also be pushing around 10.5 ftlbs when its finished, again with proper Eley Wasps. The open sights on both these old rifles are surprisingly very good and although obviously not on a par with even the most basic telescopic sight, the good old fashioned enjoyment given by these old rifles more than makes up for it.

 

Because most of our permissions are purely pest control, I tend to start with the HW100 which is clinical in its accuracy and to me is the ultimate pest control air rifle, but I always try and keep an hour or two aside to get some field time in with one of these old BSA's. So once the landowners happy I get some me time in . While sitting and waiting for another Swizzer to appear its hard not to sit and wonder what stories these enigmatic old rifles could tell if only they could speak.

 

I have often discussed with other air rifle enthusiasts the pros and cons of using such ''vintage'' rifles for hunting with many and varied opinions. But for me in particular the vintage aspect just adds to the fun plus joy of ownership.

 

What are this forums opinions and are there any other users of open sights on vintage or slightly newer springers.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Grayling

[Daz 7 563]

Must admit i love the Shape and design of the Old BSA's, Picked up two of the Models up at Blackpool Airguns and Marvelled at how Basic and yet

Striking the Design was and how easy they came up to aim

But soon put it down when i saw the Price of a very nice No 1 in superb condition but about £750

Especially has i Seen the Rapid TTR 1 near it whispering Sweet nothings to Me :wub: .

 

atvb Daz 7.

[Grayling 56]

Must admit i love the Shape and design of the Old BSA's, Picked up two of the Models up at Blackpool Airguns and Marvelled at how Basic and yet

Striking the Design was and how easy they came up to aim

But soon put it down when i saw the Price of a very nice No 1 in superb condition but about £750

Especially has i Seen the Rapid TTR 1 near it whispering Sweet nothings to Me :wub: .

 

atvb Daz 7.

 

To be honest Lloyd (BAR) and bargains are not often seen in the same sentence are they , but it would need to be in absolute mint condition at that price. I have 10 vintage BSA's now, well actually8 and 2 German copies . None are in mint condition but all have pleasing age patina's. The most I've paid is £100 the least £10. Its the spare parts that are hard to come by these days. There are still plenty of reasonable priced examples round though. They are very simple but extremely pointable aren't they . I just luv em.

[pianoman 3,587]

Hi there.

Many years ago, (it seems lifetimes back) I shot with open sights because there was no other option when I was a youngster. I had several Webley rifles and these were superb. Then, I had a German Feinwerkbau Sport .22 and an Original 45 .22 both of which was phenominally accurate on open sights and I hunted with them successfully until Tasco began introducing scopes that you could use with an air rifle.

 

I shoot with scopes on my rifles like everyone else nowadays but, in recent months, I've been practicing with the open sights on my Weihrauch HW77 .22. Though they are very accurate and I enjoy the experience again, I do not feel it right to shoot live quarry with them, just because it's an option on sights; and the scope puts shot placement precisely where it should be.

 

Good to keep my hand in with them on paper targets though!

 

Regards.

 

Pianoman

Edited November 15, 2012 by pianoman

[Grayling 56]

I've heard similar views to yours pretty often and I respect your opinion, but I feel that as pointed out in the O/P as long as the hunter knows his limitations and that of his rifle then clean kills are not a problem. Like you highlighted there is a need with any hunting kit to put as much range time (practice) in as possible, so the shooter can put his round exactly where he wants it when it counts. If a hunter cannot do this with any rifle scoped or unscoped he should not be hunting in the first place.

 

The first weapon of any kind I ever saw or held was a 1907 Lincoln Jefferies/BSA Mod B the direct fore runner of the old rifles I use now. This was over the fireplace in my grandparents house and was held almost in reverence by our family. If I behaved as a very young boy my Gran would let me hold this old air weapon, but always stood nearby to rescue it if I looked like dropping it. I later found out that during the first and second wars this rifle kept the family in fresh meat, Rabbits, Squirrels, Pigeons even Crows and Rooks anything that could go into a pot then be covered in crust was used. Grans ''game'' pies were still famous when I was a kid. I suppose that's were my love for old BSA's and hunting with them comes from. Needless to say I intend to carry on .

 

Like you my first decent quality rifle was a FWB Sport in .22 flavour, I acquired that in 1978 and soon added an early Tasco, my kill rate in Rats and Feral Pigeons during pest control duties in the local Allotment gardens quadrupled literally over night. That rifle paid for itself in a few months with grateful plot owners giving me 50p or even a pound every few weeks and when that was multiplied by 200 plots it could be quite lucrative . Wish I still had that Feinwerkbau now .

[j j m 6,563]

i used to untill my eyes couldnt manage them anymore,i used to enjoy using them

[secretagentmole 1,701]

I used open sights on a pigeon 10 feet away and got a nice head shot on it and killed it!

That was using a BSA Supersport, 1980s so classic more than vintage!

[Malt 379]

I think everyone should start off by shooting targets with open sights.. Don't know why I feel like that, maybe it's just because I did?

[Malt 379]

I think everyone should start off by shooting targets with open sights.. Don't know why I feel like that, maybe it's just because I did?

Thinking about it, I suppose it leaves you free to concentrate on getting used to pointing the rifle without having to worry too much about getting your eye used to the magnified image in the scope at the same time..

[pianoman 3,587]

Hi Grayling.

 

I was really speaking for myself when I said I do not feel it right to shoot at live quarry with open sights.

 

I don't consider myself quite as good as I used to be with open sights. By all means if you have the skill to shoot accurately and kill humanely with open sights on your rifle then, use them! Many shooters still prefer them, not being able nor willing to comprehend optical sights. I know of one chap who cannot get on with a scope for love nor money!

 

I don't, generally speaking, use this method of sighting anymore as my eyes are not as young as they once were, and I find I shoot to ranges where a scope is necessary for me to achieve accuracy.

 

And yes, I too really wish I'd never sold my Feinwerkbau 124 Sport air rifle. I bought a Tasco 4-12x40 'Moonlighter' (remember those?!) for it and I never looked back from using scopes again. That was a fantastic air rifle, even by today's standards.

 

All the very best.

Simon

[Grayling 56]

Hiya Simon, nay probs mate got you the first time, each to his own hey . Luckily my eyes are quite good given they are vintage too . Like someone on a later post added I to think everyone should start with springers and open sights because thats how I started too .

I'm interested in the Tasco ''Moonlighter'' I don't remember that one and have just trawled through my collection of old airgun mags from the late 70's up to the late 's and couldn't find that term used on Tasco's anywhere, gotta be pretty rare that one. I still have two Optima Super Moonlighters 3-9x56 the early version and the later Parralax adjustable version. These are still superb quality, complete with Jap optics.The later version is mounted on my Venom (circa 1983) this combination still does the business pest control wise to this day.

 

Totally agree re the FWB mate, they were/are as good, probably better than many of the modern springers made today. I still hope to own a Mastersport one day, IMHO the ultimate and best looking of the Feinwerkbau's.

[pianoman 3,587]

Hi Grayling.

Wow! That venom HW80 of yours must be a beauty. I've never yet seen a less-than -beautiful example. I don't think Venom made that rich walnut stock for a left hander like me, so, owning one was a never-to-be-realised dream. I have a magnificent HW80 on my ticket to make up for that though!

 

I remember something like Optima had a Moonlighter range of scopes too and Tasco, I think, ended up re-branding their moonlighter as the Panorama WA (Wide Angle) because of legal concern regarding this. I'm not totally sure. But it was a good scope I do know!

 

It had an objective lens styled like an old fashioned TV screen and the sightpicture was like looking at a TV screen with a 30-30 reticle. It was actually a pretty good scope and the first affordable optic suitable for an air rifle that I had come upon. It still boasted a superior low-light performance but, in effect, it was just like any other decent scope on lowest mag settings at dusk. But again, a pretty good scope for all that. It came, still in its "Moonlighter" box with the FWB Sport in the deal Uttings were offering when I bought mine in '79. I really wish I still had it. The open sights on that rifle were precision accurate. I shot a lot of rabbits with those alone.

 

A Feinwerkbau Mastersport....Which one is this model mate? Not heard of this. But, if it is made by FWB it will be sleek, utterly accurate and built like a Formula 1 racing car!

 

Hope you realise your dream there too fella!

 

Best wishes.

 

Simon

Edited November 16, 2012 by pianoman

[Grayling 56]

Hello again Simon, the Mastersport was an aftermarket tuneup and Walnut restock by I think Airmasters they did a HW77 Mastersport as well. I've only actually ever held 3, but they do handle and shoot like a dream. They fetch mega bucks now though when you can find one for sale, which isn't very often. They really are pretty rifles. Try doing a Google search, Danny Garvin has a few nice piccies on there, but I can get some photo's of my mates Mastersport if you really want to see one.

 

I bought my Venom in April 83 from Venom themselves at their newly opened Gun Barrel industrial estate shop. Its only an off the shelf model, there are most likely many like it. Its certainly seen some life as it was my primary hunting/pest control rifle actually replacing the earlier Feinwerkbau sport and stayed that way up until 2005 so its far from pristine, but we have grown old together literally . It looks like its seen some life now but it is still beautiful to me . Going out bunny bashing with this old never fails to put a smile on my face and when all said and done isn't that the whole idea.