the way the staffies really are......given a chance

[Stabs 3]

 

Kesh (right) was as soft as butter and loved nothing more than being around people. Soft as shite he was. Absolutely great nature

[scothunter 12,609]

Well I broke my own rules.tested your theory with my dogs bowl of sardines . Lifted the bowl , dog looked at me, as if what you doing. Licked his lips and wandered off to look out the window lol

[Born Hunter 17,837]

well havent I opened a can of worms,interesting debate though.I dont understand why anyone would want to take food back from a dog unless he/she was eating too much at one siting.On the odd occassion one of my bull terriers got loose and went into the shed with realms of meat about,there never was an issue with any of them being removed from the source.I never once had a dog of any breed turn and growl even if I had to take his grub from him.I dont see the point in this action anyway.Just feed the dog and let him enjoy his meal undisturbed.why need to ''TEST'' the animal?

 

But if you did have a dog turn dropping it's head bearing it's teeth snarling at you when you got near it while it had a bone or food and then snapping at your hand when you went to take it would you consider it acceptable? If I understand you right you see it as pointless because you have never had a dog aggressively protect it's food? But what if you did?

 

My parents 29" Greyhound was a right evil c**t with a bone, doing exactly that. It was a behaviour in part due to a life as a kenneled racer but I despise it in a dog and the bitch was tought different. Just wondering if you consider that acceptable? Because in my limited experience the way to cure it is get the animal used to having it's food taken off of it. They soon learn they will get it back and there is no need to guard so in the future if there is ever a need to remove food my parents won't suffer a bite from 70+lbs of muscle and teeth.

 

I really don't see it as a big deal, if it's a behaviour people are willing to live with that's fine. Personally I'm not but then my dogs have certain behaviours other's wouldn't tollerate for their own reasons.

 

[scothunter 12,609]

I agree born, it had been a good discussion. It's basically what you are happy with? And unless the dog is an out of control psycho. I'm sure most lads are happy with there training ability. Yes mines has its faults, but I've yet to see one that didn't test thier owners patience from time to time.

[Casso 1,261]

some dangerous misinformation about taking food off large dogs as if it some sort of proof of your pack leadership, in some cases bitch's can take food off dogs, little dogs off big dogs and so on, possession is 9/10's of the law in a dogs mind and in a lot of cases it comes down too who ever wants it more,

 

i make the pup come into my space to eat from the very start, so in that case he is actually taking food from me, does it make him pack leader ?? does it f**k, it leaves him with a completely calm frame of mind around people and food, a lot of aggression comes from fear ,

Well, no. He is being given food by the pack leader, not taking it from him without permission. If you decided he couldn't take food from you when he was in your space, there wouldn't be a problem would there?

It really isn't a big deal. The pack leader is the empowerer as well as the authority. Lets not misconceive this as some kind of macho 'I'm the head honcho' bravado. It's just a natural part of being a pack leader.

No-ones saying you need to rule dogs with an iron fist and brutality, just that the dog(s) need to know where they stand in the pecking order to feel content.

I don't see the ability to intercept a dogs food if necessary as a stamp of authority, but it would be rare that a true pack leaders will would not prevail without contest.

PS/edit - The size of a dog should make no difference in how you handle it - I treat my 150lb Ridgeback just as I would my 20lb patterdale.

i dont do the pack leader thing, so how does my dog know im pack leader, how does he know it without me reinforcing my so called leadership, he eats in my space, he goes through doors before me , he has never been disciplined by me , how does he know where he stands in the pecking order,??

 

what i would say to you duncan is that you have bought into a theory that works for you and thats great but there are holes in it which most people ignore or just dismiss like little dogs dominating big dogs , bitches dominating dogs, we are putting our own thought process in canine behavior a plus b must equal c,

 

why do you think they need to understand the pecking order to be content ? so no dog can be content unless it is dominated ? i would like proof of that one , if a dog could never be content as leader why the hell do they all want to be leader ??

 

eating before the dog eats , taking food from the dog , going through openings before the dog , making the dog walk behind us all that stuff, i would ask Duncan if you dont do any or all of these with the dog will he try taking over the house , if you can answer yes to that , i will listen to your views on the theory you have bought into,,

 

can the dog be social without been dominated?? yes or no,

 

another thing im wondering if you could explain is ,can a castrated dog still be aggressive or seemly want to be pack leader if so why, if we take it that pack leadership is about controlling resources eg access to bitches, getting to pass on his genes, or maybe its only dogs that need to be subdued not bitches,

do bitches need to be put in their place as well?? if so why

Edited October 29, 2012 by Casso

[gnasher16 30,594]

i dont do the pack leader thing, so how does my dog know im pack leader, how does he know it without me reinforcing my so called leadership, he eats in my space, he goes through doors before me , he has never been disciplined by me , how does he know where he stands in the pecking order,??

 

what i would say to you duncan is that you have bought into a theory that works for you and thats great but there are holes in it which most people ignore or just dismiss like little dogs dominating big dogs , bitches dominating dogs, we are putting our own thought process in canine behavior a plus b must equal c,

 

why do you think they need to understand the pecking order to be content ? so no dog can be content unless it is dominated ? i would like proof of that one , if a dog could never be content as leader why the hell do they all want to be leader ??

 

eating before the dog eats , taking food from the dog , going through openings before the dog , making the dog walk behind us all that stuff, i would ask Duncan if you dont do any or all of these with the dog will he try taking over the house , if you can answer yes to that , i will listen to your views on the theory you have bought into,,

 

can the dog be social without been dominated?? yes or no,

 

Perfect.

[gnasher16 30,594]

Seeing this is a thread about Staffordshire Terriers,a breed notorious for following its instinct of being dog aggressive...................would you people who are so adamant as regards the food thing......be equally as adamant about stopping a Staffie being dog aggressive ?.......anyone who has owned or been around dog aggressive bull terriers will know its virtually impossible,so whats the answer .....you simply avoid situations....................or..............should you beat and batter the dog into acceptance in order to establish YOUR dominance over what is also a perfectly natural trait in a dogs makeup.

[Born Hunter 17,837]

Seeing this is a thread about Staffordshire Terriers,a breed notorious for following its instinct of being dog aggressive...................would you people who are so adamant as regards the food thing......be equally as adamant about stopping a Staffie being dog aggressive ?.......anyone who has owned or been around dog aggressive bull terriers will know its virtually impossible,so whats the answer .....you simply avoid situations....................or..............should you beat and batter the dog into acceptance in order to establish YOUR dominance over what is also a perfectly natural trait in a dogs makeup.

 

My personal view would be that I wouldn't have that type of dog if I wasn't happy with the types behaviour. It'd be like stopping a spaniel from hunting or a greyhound from running, it's what they are bred for. But i don't see that as the same as a dog acting aggresively to it's owner over food. I just don't see it as acceptable behaviour as I don't see killing sheep as acceptable behaviour, albeit both 'natural' behaviours. If I thought it was damaging the dog in any way mentally i would reassess it but I really don't see it. I'm not fecking behaviourist, just see what's in front of me. Perhaps experience in different types of dog is drawing different conclusions....

[bird 10,013]

i dont do the pack leader thing, so how does my dog know im pack leader, how does he know it without me reinforcing my so called leadership, he eats in my space, he goes through doors before me , he has never been disciplined by me , how does he know where he stands in the pecking order,??

 

what i would say to you duncan is that you have bought into a theory that works for you and thats great but there are holes in it which most people ignore or just dismiss like little dogs dominating big dogs , bitches dominating dogs, we are putting our own thought process in canine behavior a plus b must equal c,

 

why do you think they need to understand the pecking order to be content ? so no dog can be content unless it is dominated ? i would like proof of that one , if a dog could never be content as leader why the hell do they all want to be leader ??

 

eating before the dog eats , taking food from the dog , going through openings before the dog , making the dog walk behind us all that stuff, i would ask Duncan if you dont do any or all of these with the dog will he try taking over the house , if you can answer yes to that , i will listen to your views on the theory you have bought into,,

 

can the dog be social without been dominated?? yes or no,

 

Perfect.

 

true, over the years ive been to hard on my dogs, where the dogs have done as there told ,through (fear) more than respect. And its no good for you + dog, because you carnt get the best out of the dog, when its looking over its shoulder FACT. Ive been to hard on Bryn, and i know it , he got a sensitve temp and i should have gone (softer) on him , you can break any dogs temp from a pit to poodle . With my new 1x gsd x grey pup Buck , ive (totally) differnt to him as a pup alot more easy !, and if he ends up like Bryn regards his temp, then i know its nature(not) nurture , with me being to (dominant) :yes:

[jigsaw 11,899]

well havent I opened a can of worms,interesting debate though.I dont understand why anyone would want to take food back from a dog unless he/she was eating too much at one siting.On the odd occassion one of my bull terriers got loose and went into the shed with realms of meat about,there never was an issue with any of them being removed from the source.I never once had a dog of any breed turn and growl even if I had to take his grub from him.I dont see the point in this action anyway.Just feed the dog and let him enjoy his meal undisturbed.why need to ''TEST'' the animal?

 

But if you did have a dog turn dropping it's head bearing it's teeth snarling at you when you got near it while it had a bone or food and then snapping at your hand when you went to take it would you consider it acceptable? If I understand you right you see it as pointless because you have never had a dog aggressively protect it's food? But what if you did?

 

My parents 29" Greyhound was a right evil c**t with a bone, doing exactly that. It was a behaviour in part due to a life as a kenneled racer but I despise it in a dog and the bitch was tought different. Just wondering if you consider that acceptable? Because in my limited experience the way to cure it is get the animal used to having it's food taken off of it. They soon learn they will get it back and there is no need to guard so in the future if there is ever a need to remove food my parents won't suffer a bite from 70+lbs of muscle and teeth.

 

I really don't see it as a big deal, if it's a behaviour people are willing to live with that's fine. Personally I'm not but then my dogs have certain behaviours other's wouldn't tollerate for their own reasons.

 

if I had BH and it was the only undesirable trait the dog had,then Id make sure hed have privacy while eating and the problem wont affect anyone.Now if it manifested itself in other areas,like in the field or around certain persons then theres only one outcome.From what I can understand you and others cant/wont tolerate a dog that refuses to share his bowl with you,the owner or its immediate family members.So you put a dog in the situation where he can eat his dinner but must not show resentment if you decide to remove its grub.To me that is just a trivial issue and all that has to be done is MAKE SURE he has time to himself while eating and afterwards the dog is his pleasant self again.I dont see the big deal IF this the only aggression the dog shows.Ive had a few bulls/wheatens over years and none were that way inclined,they were reared in the house with the kids and fed amongst us,hand fed and ate while my kids sat a few feet from them,never a bother.I reckon I must have been doing something right.A lot of them were top class at their job too and had plenty of drive when required.

[Born Hunter 17,837]

Fair enough Jiggy, I personally would rather just check my dogs with regards to it and sort out anything that may occur. It's trivial enough. If I ever had a dog that would'nt come right then I very much doubt I would tollerate it for very long but I also doubt that would ever happen. And If I thought that by sorting an aggressive dog out was mentally breaking it I would have a serious sit down and head scratch.

 

I don't see what the big deal is personally, when it comes to dogs it's like everyone is on some sort of crusade with their methods of dog handling. I've made plenty of f**k ups so I'm no Prof of Animal Behaviour.

[Irish 78]

When a dog is working , is he doing it for himself or to please you? or both? Something to consider when it comes to a dogs character and state of mind.

[stewie 3,387]

I think any dog that won't surrender its bone to me in a puddle of its own piss as it so scared of me in my "pack leader" mode, should be shot.......

[jigsaw 11,899]

well thats not what i want in my dogs lurcher1,you want your dog to be terrified and in a state of loosing control of its bladder when you approach it?the only way that is achieved is by abusing it psychally and mentally in my opinion,which doesnt say much for your methods.pack leader,FFS.big bad dog men eh?BH,just asking why you need to do this?Would it not be better to tell the kids/wife family/immediate guests...................DONT APPROACH THE DOG WHEN ITS EATING ,,or better still lock the dog away for 2-3 minutes while it hoovers up its food,job done,no problems anywhere,.I respect your views and opinions but I dont understand them sorry.

Irish I believe the dog is conditioned by the owner to follow its natural instincts to work/hunt/etc.so I think it could be 50/50.I have seen dogs sold to new owners,and within a few days brought out to work and it hasnt bonded with its new master as of yet so it probably is the dog doing what comes natural for him,.................or maybe not,

[Born Hunter 17,837]

BH,just asking why you need to do this?Would it not be better to tell the kids/wife family/immediate guests...................DONT APPROACH THE DOG WHEN ITS EATING ,,or better still lock the dog away for 2-3 minutes while it hoovers up its food,job done,no problems anywhere,.I respect your views and opinions but I dont understand them sorry.

 

It is conveinience to not have to worry about a dog being a c**t while eating. Sometimes the dogs get big bones that would take hours to finish but I don't want them on it for 2-3 hours, I want to be able to take them off of the dogs with no issues. It's no big time consuming thing to sort out is it and probably save you aggro in the long run with having to feck about with a dodgey dog.

 

But essentially, deep down I would'nt like or trust a dog that is supposed to be my companion that turned on me because I took food off of it.

 

Like I said before, if it's okay for my dog to gaurd it's food, is it then okay for the dog to gaurd it's kennel from me? And I would probably always doubt the animal. I simply would'nt tollerate it. I don't follow all this wolf pack dominance stuff, neither do I relate to the dog by thinking how would I feel if my boss took my dinner off of me. I doubt it would effect the dog as a worker as you say but for me you have to get on with the dog as much as it be decent at it's job. There are other traits that I don't particularly like in dogs but would in most cases tollerate.