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[skycat 6,174]

It all depends on your relationship with the dog. If the relationship is correct, from the dog's point of view, then it will retrieve, and although retrieve training does help to fine tune the process, dogs that feel understood and in tune with their owner/handler, will actually want to bring them the catch. I've seen it too often to doubt this.

 

Have a read of this, which Casso wrote a while back: he has hit the nail on the head here:

 

 

DRIVE AND CONTROLLING IT

The main difference with the drives between gun dogs and running dogs is that the gun dog can still hold the handler in its term of reference while working much the same as a sheep dog will with its Shepard in as much as it can be completely in drive and still take instruction, its drive does not collapse when making connection with prey in whatever form that may take, which is where we find some cases where a running dog goes completely deaf to instruction having caught something, it has no reference to its owner in that state of mind

 

Its that 3 way connect that is so important in the equation, Dog ,handler, prey, with gundogs , with lurchers its mostly, handler ,dog , prey,

 

for a running dog most of the time its in drive its running away from its owner and completely focused on its prey item (unlike a gun dog who can be completely in drive walking beside you while looking into your face for instruction), it tunes out its handler at that point, it can be worked on however from a young age to take instruction while in drive but it must be done before its entered to quarry of any type, trained through drive in other words,

 

the main problem in the lurcher world is that a lot of dogs are trained through treats and praise which dont activate that drive state of mind which is the mindset we are trying to control, it equates to bribing a running dogs to forsake chasing a bunny for a piece of cheese or a pat on the head and told "good boy" it just dont add up for the dog

 

say a prey item is worth 10,000 feelgood points to the mutt, and a treat or pat on the head is worth 2,000 points the dogs quickly does the maths and heads off into the distance after its quarry,

in other words most running dogs are controlled in drive by the prey item not its handler, its the potential for drive that controls the dog bred to take instruction gun dogs sheepdogs and protection dogs all of which are controlled by the handler,

 

for all dogs bred to take instruction its ability to stay in drive facilitated by its owner who has the possibility for more potential energy by instruction is what makes then listen to commands, its the potential energy the could be in the next instruction thats what keeps them focused, in order words the commands given must make the dog feel if he listens to instruction something great will follow,

what it comes down to in running dogs terms is if we try to call a dog off chasing a rabbit, our instructions given must equate to coming back to us as the chance to catch an easier rabbit or a better prey item , the instruction must equate to huge doggy feelgood points and not praise or treats or not domineering threats,

 

the dog must feel that taking commands can lead to really exciting things potentially happening, a bird in the hand is not worth two in the bush to the canine mind, a gun dog is forever an optimist and believe's his owner is the key is huge potential energy happening, so even when he grasps a prey item he is still focused on the next potential prey item through which his only avenue is his owner ,

 

so without a shadow of a doubt look for a first cross running dog who one of its parents have been bred solely to take instruction from man in whatever form that took,

also try training through drive , which makes a dog listen to commands while in a drive mindset,

 

Drive is stimulated in most working dogs in the same fashion, its a state of mind in which the dog is in his most emotional state and usually fixated on a prey item, but this is the thing about it, it can within reason be adapted for different situations, as in the fact that most protection dogs were once used for herding sheep but now are encouraged to fixate on a sleeve held by a helper in protection work, its still the same drive the sheepdog has for rounding sheep but its been channeled by man into a completely different avenue of work,

 

and thats the premise i use for working with a running dog, i dont do any training as such until i have access to drive in an animal, depending on the breeding anywhere from 6/7 months onward, the drive will bring its own intelligence with it, a dog learns quicker in drive than any other state of mind, what i do with the pup is play with a ball or tug item,

its all positives no corrections until the pup is emotionally aware enough to understand what i want and this is facilitated by the fact that at a certain age the pup will want to fit in and understand me because i am the biggest influence in his world because with no corrections no confrontations just positive interactions i am the greatest thing since sliced bread in his world,

and its through play that drive is stimulated, its the want in the dog to make contact with whatever stimulates it, you hear a lot of services dog trainers talk about a ball driven dog and thats all it is , they have the ability to stimulate the dog by an artificial prey item

 

, before they train they get the dog hooked on ball play or similar, they then use that as the reward for correct actions given by the mutt, so before the dog is introduced to real prey which will automatically stimulate a drive response i want to have a foothold in that frame of mind the dog goes into , that way the dog will have a history of been stimulated by me and has the ability to take instruction whereas in most cases a running dog is running away from the owner in that state of mind,

 

The reasons given by Morton are spot on 100% correct, it goes back to the fact that gun dogs can be corrected by their handler and still keep the handler in their frame of reference in terms of access to prey, the handler is always the avenue to drive for them, so a negative can be felt as a positive , a correction can be construed as just another instruction or a detour on its pathway to work in drive , eventually a correction can be felt a positive if it leads to the dog accessing its drive, a dog in drive is in complete harmony with it environment its a state of mind where a dog is in complete bliss so even corrections that will eventually lead a dog to drive are just another barrier to be overcome,

 

but not so most running dogs where the owner is not in its frame of drive reference it doesn't see the owner as part and parcel of drive stimulation, it takes it all very personally with no history of running dogs bred to take instruction as access to drive , the correction in most cases stands on its own and the owner is just seen as the negative,

 

another point that comes into play, is that a running dog is bred to be sensitively aware of its environment, sight hounds have got to be acutely aware of small movements in grass and such places, all of which makes them very tuned in to all sudden movements ours included, roughly handled pup learns very quickly to avoid such situations from past experience, so a dog bred to be sensitive for positive situations on the other hand is also very sensitive to negative ones, us included ,

hope that helps some,,