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[Stabs 3]

Nie, jestem Anglikiem ale moja bila zona jest Polka

[Stabs 3]

Oh, I'm sure the unsportsmanlike behaviour in that quote doesn't apply to the polish stabs    :11:

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No worries Tone :11: :11: :11: :11:

[matulkoh 66]

Nie, jestem Anglikiem ale moja bila zona jest Polka 

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oki i can understand polish but speak english alebo ak chces mozeme aj po slovenski

[Stabs 3]

No worries Matulkoh, English it is then

[kiwi 4]

always been taught that if a pig can go under a dog the dog won't last long, soft bellies and hard tusks don't match. i prefer the finder/bailer and hold type dogs myself. holders in this country are a dime a dozen, quick trip to the dog pound will get you any number of purebred pit or mastiff/ bully cross. but for nz conditons those big dogs are handicapped by our terrain, yes they do hold/lug well but ya don't need a big dog to contain a good boar, a pair of leggy staffs would hold thier own trust me. and little dogs can take more of a hiding than the big boys in my experience. my dogs are med size, by the way :11:

[Guest Tonedog]

Well, I think people using big dogs are doing so because it works. And vice versa. So I wouldn't say you'd be better off with big dogs, but for the conditions I've hunted big dogs are better.

Not JUST big. There's alot of other requirements the dogs must meet. It's gotta be fit and quick and so on, generally be a good quality boar hunting dog.

But once all those requirements are met being big is beneficial at least in certain areas with certain methods.

I'm not speaking for all australians here, I've spoken to many who prefer smaller dogs as well I think it just speaks of the conditions and boars that person hunts.

 

Through history boardogs have been pretty big though. The boarhounds of medievil times were the biggest dogs around. The great dane is the watered down descendent of these dogs. Dogos are pretty big and etc.

So I think it's obvious being big can be beneficial for boardogs under some conditions at least.

I'm sure if they were better for your conditions you'd use them but you should acknowledge the same is true for people who are using big dogs. They're not making a fashion statement. Certain conditions favour larger dogs its as simple as that.

In papua new guinea they hunt pigs with tiny little 20 lbs dogs, doesn't mean they'd be best everywhere though.

 

One thing for sure is a big dog can't afford to stand around barking at a pig. They have to go on the offensive and take control of the boar fast, minimising it's ability to retaliate.

It takes a small spry dog to dance around a pig nipping at it and keeping it at bay.

But I think if small dogs are too hard they can get themselves hurt. They might be able to bounce off a big ruck with less damage than a big dog, due to their being more resistance from the big dogs weight, but they'll take a thousand more big rucks in their career because they can't control the boar.

This only applies to a small dog which thinks it's a big dog.

Crafty cunning small dogs can be effective using their own more cautious method.

I think it's alot more complicated than "which is better? Big or little", maybe too complicated to realy break down but we can conclude big dogs can be good and small dogs can be good, depending on various things, this is evidenced by the variation in working boardog sizes around the world.

[kiwi 4]

i think ya need to define a "boardog" as i don't rate a holder or a lugger as the be all and end all of a pigdogs. a smaller or medium size size dog can find and catch any pig on the planet. i think you aussie's have very good dogs don't get me wrong but i think you guys gloss over the the real work that pigdogs do in other countries, newzealand papua new guinea and the european countries have been using the small types for the simple reason that they work. the true test of a working pigdog is being able to stop and contain a pig {not all are two ton boars} til the hunter gets there with the rifle of a pair of meatheads, the real guts and brains come out once the finding dogs takes on the role as holder once it uses it's head first and waits for support. the sight of a good boar bailed by a pack of dogs then told to go in and hold is truely the best part of pighunting. the fact that they tracked the pig for a few hours til they pulled it up and bailed it for an hour can show the spirit of a true hunting dog, bit different than driving around in a 4x4 and slipping the fully padded up dogs off the traydeck. i might add that foxhound type packs where also the norm for hunting wild boar. It takes a small spry dog to dance around a pig nipping at it and keeping it at bay. i would call that a good honest dog myself lol maybe small in size but not guts and brains :11: and so long as the pig is staying put doing a great job. i have tried the bigger dogs, dogo's and american bull dogs and rate them as awesome but no good for our country the dogo's being a little to big and the ambulls not having a hunting bone in thier body, great holders though. how many dogs you running tonedog?

[Guest Tonedog]

I'm only an occassional boarhunter. But I have numerous uncles and cousins and friends who are serious hunters. I've grown up with it being a household thing but don't get to do it very often.

 

I have hunted different styles depending on who I'm hunting with and how they do it.

I have a friend who hunts with kelpies on his property, kelpies probably hunt basically like your dogs.

Yes they're jumping off atvs but it's not like they were jumping onto the heads of boars, they'd be off into the scrub it could take some effort to catch up with them and the pig.

We'd use a rifle with this method, it's not really my scene.

I'm a fan of lugging dogs. But a lugging dog isn't necessarrily one dimensional. There's specialised catch dogs(used in the states with hounds) and then there's allrounders(dogos and the most common kind of aussie pig dog).

Allrounders are just the same as a bailer only when they find the pig they grab hold rather than bark at it, and you generally wouldn't use a gun with this method.

 

My cousin breeds arabs in central queensland (lots of nz blokes living out there sheering, I've hunted with some of them) and his dogs mostly hunt off a 4 x 4 and work off sight and it's pretty flat country so it's pretty much like you described. Except they still need endurance because while it might not take much to catch 1 pig it takes a bit to catch 20 in a day using this method. Especially in extreme heat with a few false alarms. The dogs are basically running and jumping and lugging all day.

 

I've also hunted in the rainforests of northern queensland and the mountains of nsw, and this is pretty much like the kind of hunting you do by the sounds of it, on foot, long arduous work to get one pig. But we had lugging dogs in these instances as well. Bandog and bulldog x's, which were top finders with good noses.

The boars are mean as hell in these environments, and big. So you shouldn't generalise with "how australia hunts pigs" because it's different allover.

The 4 x 4 method is mostly just used in crop country.

Even new zealand evidently isn't the same all over because lots of blokes have success with big lugging dogs (dogos and the like) on your side of the pond, I've seen pictures and heard accounts. And they were hunting on foot in mountainous forests.

 

Just keep in mind when I say mastff x you shouldn't picture any run of the mill "mastiff cross something else" I mean a performance bred boardog down from many such generations who happened to have some mastiff blood as the foundation of his line.

Not just a mongrel from the pound who will bite a pig, a serious hunting dog.

 

I only have 1 dog at the moment, a bandog, and he hasn't even seen a pig yet but he's from good stock.

He'll probably get a run with my mates kelpies sometime soon. Should be interesting, they're actually not very dangerous pigs out that way. Actually they're alot like the ones in the videos that started this thread from what I've seen.

I probably wouldn't risk an inexperienced dog on mountain or jungle boars. Especially if he was to be the only holder.

He's proven his ability to find hares, and lug a length of hose while I'm holding it, should be ok :11:

 

I'm not saying I'm an expert hunter, I'm pretty inexperienced compared to someone like you, really only ever tagged along on hunts, but I still know a bit about it(especially how it's done around australia) seeing as how I've grown up learning about it from all my relatives.

[kiwi 4]

yeah i sort of gathered that you are very inexperienced, i have hunted a few times in aussie both in the flat and mountains and with bull arabs, which i think are alot more common than dogo's in aussie, i was gonna import them to nz at one stage but they are too heavy for our thick country, they would catch pigs don't get me wrong though. we do have alot of different terrain here too desert type and open tussock. a pair of allrounders is [bANNED TEXT] i prefer find-bail and hold is the term they go by. on a personal note i can see a time that aussies will be banned from "dogging pigs" your anti's are a huge force over there banning breeds and hound hunting sambur {done that too } duckshooting etc, i can see the writing on the wall as the spca tried it here with holding dogs.

[matulkoh 66]

hey guys lets say in each country, hunters use what they think is best for their conditions. i red book about hunting history, in europe people used also bigdogs but after they find out rifles they start to use smaller one, teckels and terriers because they can use them for several jobs, and they are more suitable for our conditions, during last weekend we shot 12 boars and one fox. i ve to say that here some people which use bullterriers and pits and they re happy with them, i heard about one bullterrier which stop 120kg boar.

how i sad hunters use what they think is best for their conditions.

so there is no more to say on this what y think guys :friends:

[Guest Tonedog]

Yeah I agree matulkoh.

 

Kiwi, the funny thing is if you look at the laws, using dogs that will bite a pig is already illegal, but the government openly funds such practices at times.

And in general it's anything but underground that's for sure. It's not like dogfighting or anything like that. People openly drive around in pig hunting rigs with blatant lugging dogs on the back and I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. There's heaps of magazines in every newsagency with dogs lugging boars on the front cover, so no one really takes the law very seriously. Not even the lawmakers, it's like no one realises the law exists.

Like on the simpsons when they discovered the law that ducks are supposed to wear pants :11:

Can't see it going anywhere to be honest it's such a big part of aussie culture.

Then again I suppose you would have thought the same with foxhunting in the uk, so who knows.

[Guest Tonedog]

i ve to say that here some people which use bullterriers and pits and they re happy with them, i heard about one bullterrier which stop 120kg boar.

Heaps of pig hunters in australia used to use bull terriers, bullterriers were known as "pig dogs" in every day speach, and still are the image the average australian thinks of when they hear "pig dog".

If my mother's explaining a dog she saw and she says "it was a pig dog" I'll know she means english bull terrier. Thats just how commonly they used to be used as pig dogs.

 

And lots of them obviously were catching pigs. Lots of pigs.

But the reality is they'd generally live short violent lives.

Hunters would go through dogs like toilet paper. A bullterrier or a pit is likely to take a beating every half decent pig it catches. It will hold on and the job will get done but there's only so much they can take over the duration of their life. Getting rucked and bucked and gored and thrown around so often just makes it all the more likely the dog won't make it to retirement.

I do think with smaller dogs you want a slightly more cautious and crafty kind of dog than a bullterrier type. Unless you also have a pack of hound type dogs and the bullterriers walked in as a specialised catch dog.

Otherwise I do think it will have a fairly short career. Not necessarrily though! The odd one will still have a long successfull life hunting pigs, there's always exceptions and you can only talk in general terms.

[Guest goran]

Guys, I own and hunt with Jagdterriers and hunted them in Europe forests, Canada game ranches and in swamps and canyons in US.The best dogs I found are Florida Blackmouth Curs.Fair size fast hounds, good nose, open only on sight, catch if they can and bay/mix on big pigs.Not sure how they would do in a cold but for down there - excellent.

i ve to say that here some people which use bullterriers and pits and they re happy with them, i heard about one bullterrier which stop 120kg boar.

Heaps of pig hunters in australia used to use bull terriers, bullterriers were known as "pig dogs" in every day speach, and still are the image the average australian thinks of when they hear "pig dog".

If my mother's explaining a dog she saw and she says "it was a pig dog" I'll know she means english bull terrier. Thats just how commonly they used to be used as pig dogs.

 

And lots of them obviously were catching pigs. Lots of pigs.

But the reality is they'd generally live short violent lives.

Hunters would go through dogs like toilet paper. A bullterrier or a pit is likely to take a beating every half decent pig it catches. It will hold on and the job will get done but there's only so much they can take over the duration of their life. Getting rucked and bucked and gored and thrown around so often just makes it all the more likely the dog won't make it to retirement.

I do think with smaller dogs you want a slightly more cautious and crafty kind of dog than a bullterrier type. Unless you also have a pack of hound type dogs and the bullterriers walked in as a specialised catch dog.

Otherwise I do think it will have a fairly short career. Not necessarrily though! The odd one will still have a long successfull life hunting pigs, there's always exceptions and you can only talk in general terms.

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[matulkoh 66]

Guys, I own and hunt with Jagdterriers and hunted them in Europe forests, Canada game ranches and in swamps and canyons in US.The best dogs I found are Florida Blackmouth Curs.Fair size fast hounds, good nose, open only on sight, catch if they can and bay/mix on big pigs.Not sure how they would do in a cold but for down there - excellent.

i ve to say that here some people which use bullterriers and pits and they re happy with them, i heard about one bullterrier which stop 120kg boar.

Heaps of pig hunters in australia used to use bull terriers, bullterriers were known as "pig dogs" in every day speach, and still are the image the average australian thinks of when they hear "pig dog".

If my mother's explaining a dog she saw and she says "it was a pig dog" I'll know she means english bull terrier. Thats just how commonly they used to be used as pig dogs.

 

And lots of them obviously were catching pigs. Lots of pigs.

But the reality is they'd generally live short violent lives.

Hunters would go through dogs like toilet paper. A bullterrier or a pit is likely to take a beating every half decent pig it catches. It will hold on and the job will get done but there's only so much they can take over the duration of their life. Getting rucked and bucked and gored and thrown around so often just makes it all the more likely the dog won't make it to retirement.

I do think with smaller dogs you want a slightly more cautious and crafty kind of dog than a bullterrier type. Unless you also have a pack of hound type dogs and the bullterriers walked in as a specialised catch dog.

Otherwise I do think it will have a fairly short career. Not necessarrily though! The odd one will still have a long successfull life hunting pigs, there's always exceptions and you can only talk in general terms.

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jags are superb

[Guest goran]

matulkoh,

do you have any Croatian or Serbian dogs there?