paulus 26 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 The point I'm trying to make here is that you cannot have an objective & logical debate on the existance of God, it's impossible to do scientifically. You either have faith or you don't. Faith isn't a function of logic, it's just faith...... You have to have a lot of 'faith' in science to believe that everything originated from absolutely nothing and for no reason. If I had a hidden dice and told you to have faith that it would roll a 10 would you? Yet if I showed you my dice and you saw that all 6 sides had 10 printed on then would you have faith that it would roll a 10? That's a simple analogy to the difference between faith in God and faith in science.... the problem with science is it can only explain what it can understand/see/feel/touch/smell doesnt mean this could be turned on its head at any point with advances in science Do you mean, that current scientific theories are over written with new scientific theories as our understanding improves? They can adjusted, for instance how Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity was developed to sit alongside Classical theories, but it didn't dissprove them. We are at a stage now where science is very theoretical, we can't just grab a nuetrino and measure it etc, we can't stick a black hole under a microscope and have a good look. nail head there 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Well I'm in the mind if It is explained to me, and viable proof to back it up, then to me it's fact. Never ever heard anyone back up the god theory with anything other than faith, and a load of fables. If someone said there a god lives on the moon, and he watches over us, and showers us with luck and good fortune if we moon dance at miday on a Friday, you would think he was a f*****g crackpot, but what if a billion people believed in the moon god? Yea that's right, they would still be f*****g off thier rockers. As for science issue, I know what I'd follow to further my education. Having said all that, if folk get comfort from flowing a certain a faith, good luck to them. But sadly there religion that they find comfort in, also makes other life's a f*****g misery. Great foundations this superior being lated down. Nothing like giving us a good start in life. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,817 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Look folks, ya wanna put your faith in God be my guest, it's impossible for me to prove you wrong..... completely impossible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 But highly unlikely born hunter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hob&Jill 258 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 The point I'm trying to make here is that you cannot have an objective & logical debate on the existance of God, it's impossible to do scientifically. You either have faith or you don't. Faith isn't a function of logic, it's just faith...... You have to have a lot of 'faith' in science to believe that everything originated from absolutely nothing and for no reason. If I had a hidden dice and told you to have faith that it would roll a 10 would you? Yet if I showed you my dice and you saw that all 6 sides had 10 printed on then would you have faith that it would roll a 10? That's a simple analogy to the difference between faith in God and faith in science.... I'm not really sure about your analogy, but I am tired and slightly retarded so forgive me This question comes down to the same answer...no one knows. It has to be the oldest debate going. To me the idea that the universe, life, consciousness etc all came from nothing and happened purely by chance with no creator or intelligent designer seems to me more unrealistic than there being a possible creator. Just to clear up I don't subscribe to any mainstream religion, I just leave the door open for a deistic god. What existed before the big bang? What was outside of the singularity? Nothing? Literally nothing? Whatever side of the fence you sit on it is certainly a great topic, but one I am leaving at that. At least for tonight These kind of chats are much easier and more enjoyable in person Good night and God bless HJ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 My understanding of it, and I may be wrong ! That space is dense. Now billions of years ago when there was nothing. Basically a vacume, dust and shit was swirling around. Then cause it had no where to go it all formed together. Oh And there was a big bang in there somewhere haha 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,817 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) The point I'm trying to make here is that you cannot have an objective & logical debate on the existance of God, it's impossible to do scientifically. You either have faith or you don't. Faith isn't a function of logic, it's just faith...... You have to have a lot of 'faith' in science to believe that everything originated from absolutely nothing and for no reason. If I had a hidden dice and told you to have faith that it would roll a 10 would you? Yet if I showed you my dice and you saw that all 6 sides had 10 printed on then would you have faith that it would roll a 10? That's a simple analogy to the difference between faith in God and faith in science.... I'm not really sure about your analogy, but I am tired and slightly retarded so forgive me This question comes down to the same answer...no one knows. It has to be the oldest debate going. To me the idea that the universe, life, consciousness etc all came from nothing and happened purely by chance with no creator or intelligent designer seems to me more unrealistic than there being a possible creator. Just to clear up I don't subscribe to any mainstream religion, I just leave the door open for a deistic god. What existed before the big bang? What was outside of the singularity? Nothing? Literally nothing? Whatever side of the fence you sit on it is certainly a great topic, but one I am leaving at that. At least for tonight These kind of chats are much easier and more enjoyable in person Good night and God bless HJ You're testing my limited knowledge and understanding to the very limit now. I don't know I'm just a poxy half rate Physicist that works in industry. Our current 'belief' is that there was not nothing as you put it, all the universe was there just following a different set of rules to what it does now. High energy particle physics is the only way forward with these sort of questions, there are a number of competing hypotheses. It's right a forfront of modern Physics and tbh the answers aren't coming next week. Edited to add; when I say 'all the universe was there' I mean all of it's constituent parts, all of the energy. It just followed different laws, not the same ones that govern most of what we see. The Forces behaved differently. God?................. Edited September 22, 2012 by Born Hunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxfan 479 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 As Dave Allen used to say 'Good Night and may your God go with you' 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,817 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 My understanding of it, and I may be wrong ! That space is dense. Now billions of years ago when there was nothing. Basically a vacume, dust and shit was swirling around. Then cause it had no where to go it all formed together. Oh And there was a big bang in there somewhere haha Cosmology 101 with Scothunter! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 They would get the jist of it, maybe that's why folk say there is a god. It's easier to f*****g explain. Lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hob&Jill 258 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 What reason was there a big bang in the first place? Why was there even something to go bang? Why would it happen if there was nothing conscious to appreciate it? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 My understanding it was a build up if gasses and neutrons. Got to remember when things go bang up there. It's f*****g nuclear bangs lol. It took I dunno how many years, but I'm guessing billions if not trillions. I've often pondered it myself, but it's way over my head. I mean what is space? Where did it come from? Does it go on for infinity, and if so, how do we know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tam O'Void 297 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 The point I'm trying to make here is that you cannot have an objective & logical debate on the existance of God, it's impossible to do scientifically. You either have faith or you don't. Faith isn't a function of logic, it's just faith...... You have to have a lot of 'faith' in science to believe that everything originated from absolutely nothing and for no reason. If I had a hidden dice and told you to have faith that it would roll a 10 would you? Yet if I showed you my dice and you saw that all 6 sides had 10 printed on then would you have faith that it would roll a 10? That's a simple analogy to the difference between faith in God and faith in science.... I'm not really sure about your analogy, but I am tired and slightly retarded so forgive me This question comes down to the same answer...no one knows. It has to be the oldest debate going. To me the idea that the universe, life, consciousness etc all came from nothing and happened purely by chance with no creator or intelligent designer seems to me more unrealistic than there being a possible creator. Just to clear up I don't subscribe to any mainstream religion, I just leave the door open for a deistic god. What existed before the big bang? What was outside of the singularity? Nothing? Literally nothing? Whatever side of the fence you sit on it is certainly a great topic, but one I am leaving at that. At least for tonight These kind of chats are much easier and more enjoyable in person Good night and God bless HJ You're testing my limited knowledge and understanding to the very limit now. I don't know I'm just a poxy half rate Physicist that works in industry. Our current 'belief' is that there was not nothing as you put it, all the universe was there just following a different set of rules to what it does now. High energy particle physics is the only way forward with these sort of questions, there are a number of competing hypotheses. It's right a forfront of modern Physics and tbh the answers aren't coming next week. Edited to add; when I say 'all the universe was there' I mean all of it's constituent parts, all of the energy. It just followed different laws, not the same ones that govern most of what we see. The Forces behaved differently. God?................. What about the "INVISIBLE EMPIRE" then , THEN there is the notion of a Parralle Universe :hmm:did Einstein not believe this ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tam O'Void 297 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 My understanding it was a build up if gasses and neutrons. Got to remember when things go bang up there. It's f*****g nuclear bangs lol. It took I dunno how many years, but I'm guessing billions if not trillions. I've often pondered it myself, but it's way over my head. I mean what is space? Where did it come from? Does it go on for infinity, and if so, how do we know? The Bible tells You ... if you know were to look ,but it's a Secret not for the Cowans of the world Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldfinch2007 2,333 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 at the end of the day we belive in the lord and it makes us happy.if you dont fairplay .whats the problem?? 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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