stubblebasher 150 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? Quote Link to post
riohog 5,708 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? lol you line breed by not outcrossing Quote Link to post
chartpolski 23,812 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? I may be wrong, as I've never bred a litter in my life; but I thought "line bred" was from related dogs ? Once there was an outcross, they were no longer "line bred" ? Cheers. Edited September 22, 2012 by chartpolski Quote Link to post
Maximus Ferret 2,063 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? I may be wrong, as I've never bred a litter in my life; but I thought "line bred" was from related dogs ? Once there was an outcross, they were no longer "line bred" ? Cheers. The outcross may not be but when it's bred back to one of the line the progeny will carry related blood on both sire and dam side and so WILL be line bred. Quote Link to post
stubblebasher 150 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? lol you line breed by not outcrossing So you keep breeding related dogs. Generation after generation do you !? Quote Link to post
riohog 5,708 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? lol you line breed by not outcrossing So you keep breeding related dogs. Generation after generation do you !? why not?if it is a good line with no genetic faults why would you outcross ..ffs if you cant breed as good as you have ..or better why bother .line breeding is a proven method of breeding ,if the world wasnt so fkn pc you would keep the best and cull the rest .. instead of breeding just for the sake of it .for a few quid breed for quality Quote Link to post
stubblebasher 150 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? lol you line breed by not outcrossing So you keep breeding related dogs. Generation after generation do you !? why not?if it is a good line with no genetic faults why would you outcross ..ffs if you cant breed as good as you have ..or better why bother .line breeding is a proven method of breeding ,if the world wasnt so fkn pc you would keep the best and cull the rest .. instead of breeding just for the sake of it .for a few quid breed for quality So you line breed until a mutation is born , as quoted in one of your earlier posts !!? I don't think so ! This is lurchers we re talking about not kc dogs Quote Link to post
riohog 5,708 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? lol you line breed by not outcrossing So you keep breeding related dogs. Generation after generation do you !? why not?if it is a good line with no genetic faults why would you outcross ..ffs if you cant breed as good as you have ..or better why bother .line breeding is a proven method of breeding ,if the world wasnt so fkn pc you would keep the best and cull the rest .. instead of breeding just for the sake of it .for a few quid breed for quality So you line breed until a mutation is born , as quoted in one of your earlier posts !!? I don't think so ! This is lurchers we re talking about not kc dogs remember , mutation can be good /or bad ,, yes ovcourse if there is faults in a line you would outcross to try and rectify /or iliminate a fault . yes ive kept lurchers and running dogs for over 40 years ,and in that time probebly only had 2 dogs that i concidered outstanding ,i have absolutly no idea what the kc,s policy is on breeding but it seems they dont have much idea of function .. Quote Link to post
bumfluff 6 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 just woundering who has bred the oldest lines in uk of top coursing dogs big dick , dickerson Quote Link to post
stubblebasher 150 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You have to outcross at some point or a line would become too inbred I agree entirely, but the line must surely be diluted by 50% as soon as you outcross ? Cheers. Sure ,but then you cross back into the line . The outcross then is only diluted by 1/4 and you would be fixing the genes of the line which would be stronger So you'd take a pup from the "outcross". and put it back to a dog/bitch from the origional line ? Yeah, of course thats done, but it still dilutes the "origional" line; that's my point ! Dare I use "Minshaws" as an example ? If a Minshaw is put to a pure Collie or a pure greyhound, are the offspring "Minshaws" ? If a pup from the cross is put back to a pure "Minshaw", are the prodgeny "Minshaws" or a continuation of the "line" ? I use "Minshaws" purely as an example, and in no way denegrate the breed ! Cheers. If a pup is 3/4 minshaw then yes that is part of the minshaw line . How els do you line breed ? lol you line breed by not outcrossing So you keep breeding related dogs. Generation after generation do you !? why not?if it is a good line with no genetic faults why would you outcross ..ffs if you cant breed as good as you have ..or better why bother .line breeding is a proven method of breeding ,if the world wasnt so fkn pc you would keep the best and cull the rest .. instead of breeding just for the sake of it .for a few quid breed for quality So you line breed until a mutation is born , as quoted in one of your earlier posts !!? I don't think so ! This is lurchers we re talking about not kc dogs remember , mutation can be good /or bad ,, yes ovcourse if there is faults in a line you would outcross to try and rectify /or iliminate a fault . yes ive kept lurchers and running dogs for over 40 years ,and in that time probebly only had 2 dogs that i concidered outstanding ,i have absolutly no idea what the kc,s policy is on breeding but it seems they dont have much idea of function .. If you continue to breed close your going to get faults eventually . What's wrong with an outcross to add a certain quality to a line anyway ? I feel as though we are going around in circles with this debate now Quote Link to post
prebanpeter 146 Posted September 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 with all good lines one has to outcross at some time after a few crossies your back on track with the same line as it has being said there not kc reg dogs so it does not matter whether its 1/2 3/4 or 7/8 its still ends up back to the same line,s i breed a lot of gamefowl and thats how i breed them you have to line breed as well as out breed its how the lurcher began well its just my view to it 1 Quote Link to post
cocker 2,654 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 line breeding is a way to help set, desirable traits, with line breeding you breed animals that are related, but you also introduce genes from "other lines", into the genetic mix, it takes a long time to fix desirable traits this way, but doing so lowers the risk of problems, assosiated with repeated in breeding, with tight line breeding, you might find the same 3 or 4 dogs, showing up numerous times in a 5 generation pedigree 1 Quote Link to post
brookie 1,193 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 with all good lines one has to outcross at some time after a few crossies your back on track with the same line as it has being said there not kc reg dogs so it does not matter whether its 1/2 3/4 or 7/8 its still ends up back to the same line,s i breed a lot of gamefowl and thats how i breed them you have to line breed as well as out breed its how the lurcher began well its just my view to it bang on the money . Quote Link to post
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