Line breeding

[northern lad 2,292]

Bedlingtons/copper toxicosis /liver shunt labs/ hip dysplacia border terriers /fits to name a few

[northern lad 2,292]

All the above could be undetected until after the dog was mature enough to have been bred from

[The lonesome boatman 20]

Bedlingtons/copper toxicosis /liver shunt labs/ hip dysplacia border terriers /fits to name a few

Hydroxyglutaric Aciduria, and luxating patella in staffs. Chain smoking in Beagles, and Nuttal dogs scared of the dark to name a few.

[Rory4 267]

Has anyone had any problems with father daughters matings?

[vixen 528]

Has anyone had any problems line breeding ,eg deformities or dogs that just dont seem right in the head.

 

and is line breeding the cause of some of the biggest problems KC dogs

 

Line breeding is absolutely fine and the best route to go when breeding your own line that suits your needs........grandfather/granddaughter,half brother/sister, UNLESS there is a genetic/congenital problem in the line somewhere, IF you have a very sound bitch it is important NOT to bring any defects into the line so is worth knowing where she is from, Inbreeding is just a BIG NO in my opinion, this causes faults eventually.......mother/son, father/daughter, full brother/sister, line breeding isn't the cause of problems in SOME breeds...........bad breeders are, the same bad breeders you get everywhere in the dog world work/show/pet/puppy farms.........there are far to many people just breed a litter with no thought to the genetics of their dog/bitch and no thought to whether they have a sound line with no congenital defects that will eventually be detrimental to the dog and anything bred from it, remember bad faults can crop up years down the line they can't be hidden, any major faults detrimental to any line are better stopped in their tracks when they come to the fore!!

[south paw48 27]

Has anyone had any problems with father daughters matings?

Only problem that i got once that they were abit on the small side as for working ability they were spot on and very game ive bred this way a few times.

[TOPPER 1,809]

rory , never had any problems with it and its been done enough time s here , tyson is out of a father daughter mating in fact tykes been over most of his daughters with no problems

[liamdelaney 2,586]

Surely the same laws of genetics apply as much to a tested working patt/border/lakie as they do a bichon/poodle etc,if a particularly good dog is used over many bitches you could be breeding a lot closer than realised,just to play devils advocate at least with a kc dog you can see on paper at least 5 gens back accuratley how many of the lads on here could without question do that with there new pup? I know there will be lads who can reel off their dogs origins easily,but I bet theres a lot who cant

Northern Lad are you reading this from a book or are you serious?KC papers tell idiots what they want to hear,show people NEVER NEVER put the proper breeding of their champs for all to see,they would be afraid some competitor would know what way they crossed this and that line or particular dog to some particular bitch to get some show shite champion or champions.They always stick in one or two wrong ones in the peds when selling or registering,the pups may not be even from the same litter.The serious working terrier man(not the fly by night men)can trace his peds for years and years all down his line(he is not in it for money)You say you bred your bitch to her father because blues were scarce,why would the colour matter to you,what is so special about the colour blue? Your theory on cousins and second cousins and cousins once removed as line breeding is flawed(in my opinion)they are all still closely related.I have bred closely related terriers for over thirty years,when I breed a good one it is line breeding BUT when I breed a bad one it is inbreeding,and everone else is the same.Somebody said on here that sometimes they come a little small and scraney,I found this sometimes with brother to sister pups and put them down.You advised somebody if the bitch was hindered by genetic weakness go for the outcross, wrong,put down the bitch do not breed from anything with a weakness,breed from sound stock always cull everything else.

[downsouth 7,143]

I've a strong young bitch hear thats line bred. But I've noticed she seems to get things quicker than usual, silly things really but her kennel mate has none of these problems. I've put it down to being closely bred. But like Glyn has already said " working will sort the wheat from the chaff"!

I would say the young chocolate bitch is inbred rather than linebred.

[marshman 7,757]

@ downsouth . Mate you'd know more about her breeding than me! I thought she was Brogs Allan to his half sister , I didn't know it went any tighter than that. Probably explains why all the litter looked like clones !

[vixen 528]

Surely the same laws of genetics apply as much to a tested working patt/border/lakie as they do a bichon/poodle etc,if a particularly good dog is used over many bitches you could be breeding a lot closer than realised,just to play devils advocate at least with a kc dog you can see on paper at least 5 gens back accuratley how many of the lads on here could without question do that with there new pup? I know there will be lads who can reel off their dogs origins easily,but I bet theres a lot who cant

Northern Lad are you reading this from a book or are you serious?KC papers tell idiots what they want to hear,show people NEVER NEVER put the proper breeding of their champs for all to see,they would be afraid some competitor would know what way they crossed this and that line or particular dog to some particular bitch to get some show shite champion or champions.They always stick in one or two wrong ones in the peds when selling or registering,the pups may not be even from the same litter.The serious working terrier man(not the fly by night men)can trace his peds for years and years all down his line(he is not in it for money)You say you bred your bitch to her father because blues were scarce,why would the colour matter to you,what is so special about the colour blue? Your theory on cousins and second cousins and cousins once removed as line breeding is flawed(in my opinion)they are all still closely related.I have bred closely related terriers for over thirty years,when I breed a good one it is line breeding BUT when I breed a bad one it is inbreeding,and everone else is the same.Somebody said on here that sometimes they come a little small and scraney,I found this sometimes with brother to sister pups and put them down.You advised somebody if the bitch was hindered by genetic weakness go for the outcross, wrong,put down the bitch do not breed from anything with a weakness,breed from sound stock always cull everything else.

 

Your above highlighted statement is total nonsense.............and you would know this of every single person who has bred a litter of kc dogs of whatever breed?? i have NEVER witnessed any of your accusations with any people i know with KC dogs in 36yrs, BUT i have witnessed non KC dogs at working shows being sold for four figured sums of money between terriermen (not the fly by night men), ANY dog can be DNA tested if there is any question of it's parentage , if i had to bet on 100 KC dogs against 100 well known non KC lines then my money would be on the KC bred dogs to have the correct parentage on paper. If you are happy with what you produce in whatever way you breed then crack on, but it doesn't mean you have to pull others down for not doing what you do, Oh and if you ever want to use a KC champion on one of your well bred bitches then i suggest you have it DNA tested just to make sure it is what it says on the tin

[dee mac 579]

tight line\inbreeding has been the tool used by the kc for years to transform dogs that once had a purpose into golden eggs for vets take the good old english bulldog :laugh:the kc made a graet job of it heh vixen

[steamingutpiles 117]

Surely the same laws of genetics apply as much to a tested working patt/border/lakie as they do a bichon/poodle etc,if a particularly good dog is used over many bitches you could be breeding a lot closer than realised,just to play devils advocate at least with a kc dog you can see on paper at least 5 gens back accuratley how many of the lads on here could without question do that with there new pup? I know there will be lads who can reel off their dogs origins easily,but I bet theres a lot who cant

The laws of genetics don't change, the traits sought by the breeders are the only things that change.

[vixen 528]

tight line\inbreeding has been the tool used by the kc for years to transform dogs that once had a purpose into golden eggs for vets take the good old english bulldog :laugh:the kc made a graet job of it heh vixen

 

Errm i dont breed english bulldogs and i dont breed non KC terrier types, i keep what i've got and am happy with without ANY genetic or congenital defects and wont be detrimental to any future stock off of mine, as for genetic deformities in dogs as i've said before that is down to BAD BREEDERS not the KC, do you think non kc dogs don't have genetic deformities and do you think some of these non kc dog breeders notice??

[northern lad 2,292]

Liam I thought the applied sarcasm to the statement!!!!clearly not enough,I used a blue dog as I wanted a blue bitch pup,my choice!! Vixen I assure you people do lie on KC reg papers,its common knowledge but nobody mentions it,I even know somebody who bred in a complete outcross,registered the litter and sold/priced them accordingly,you are very naive if you beleive this doesnt go on!!is it correct the KC have stopped registering father/daughter and mother/son litters if this is so I assure you there will be more dodgy litters than ever.As for putting a dog down for a genetic weakness Liam even though it works well,I think that says a lot about you.If it was mine I wouldnt breed it at all,but if I wanted too it would be to a complete outcross,and I stand by my statement,most on here would not be able to name many generations in their pups breeding!