Malt 379 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yes i do believe hare coursing was banned because of the type of people it attracted. And also for the same reasons as fox hunting was banned, because people/antis perceived it as a blood sport enjoyed by blood thirsty people.....Answered two questions in one there in case you hadn't noticed Hare coursing wasn't specifically banned though Moll, the single act of hunting any mammal with dogs was banned and hare coursing and fox hunting then became illegal as a by product. Even hunting rats and rabbits is just as illegal as hunting foxes and hares without complying with the conditions laid down in the act... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 You want the tradition yet you shouldn't get a dog unless you have ground? Wasn't the Lurcher created so that the commoner didn't get fined for owning a greyhound and he was able to poach the land? Yes i can see your point regarding tradition/lurchers But i has gone wayyyyyyyy beyond that now, less land to hunt and a great many more people hunting, people do not hunt because they need the food any more, in fact most people do not hunt for any other reason than bragging rights Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yes i do believe hare coursing was banned because of the type of people it attracted. And also for the same reasons as fox hunting was banned, because people/antis perceived it as a blood sport enjoyed by blood thirsty people.....Answered two questions in one there in case you hadn't noticed Hare coursing wasn't specifically banned though Moll, the single act of hunting any mammal with dogs was banned and hare coursing and fox hunting then became illegal as a by product. Even hunting rats and rabbits is just as illegal as hunting foxes and hares without complying with the conditions laid down in the act... I do think certain species were specifically banned for reasons though Malt...as i said, why the hare and not the rabbit (On permission)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redcharge 378 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 You want the tradition yet you shouldn't get a dog unless you have ground? Wasn't the Lurcher created so that the commoner didn't get fined for owning a greyhound and he was able to poach the land? Yes i can see your point regarding tradition/lurchers But i has gone wayyyyyyyy beyond that now, less land to hunt and a great many more people hunting, people do not hunt because they need the food any more, in fact most people do not hunt for any other reason than bragging rights Moll if you read back what you have just typed surely you can see that it could quite easily be something that an anti would say? I dont hunt for bragging rights, I dont hunt purely for pest control, I enjoy working my dogs for no other reason at all. Its only been 7 years since the ban and people are starting to forget already Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ideation 8,216 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Why do people get working dogs if there is no where to work them. You wouldn't buy a lawnmower if you didn't have a garden! Leveller, i understand where you are coming from, in fact it is quite easy to understand. I think some people just like to split hairs for the sake of arguing Why do people think hare coursing was banned? Was it because they are an endangered species....No Was it because to chase a hare causes it more emotional fear that is does to chase a rabbit...No. Was it because they look cuter than a rabbit....Def not Could it be because of the types of people to recently get into coursing, poaching, threatening to burn down farms, driving the fields....and yes stealing normally does go hand in hand with it. Hmmmm let me see I thought there have been a few silly posts on this thread but this one takes the biscuit :laugh: In your little world have you never seen or heard any of the above So any kid getting into the game shouldnt bother because he has nowhere to go? the future will be grim for our sport if all kids threw the towel in for this reason So hare coursing was banned because it was attracting the wrong sort of participants? .............. Why was fox hunting banned then? The point I was trying to make was that not all people who stray across boundrys are idiots Is it just me or does it seem as though theres sort of an upper class and working class in the hunting game? It always feels as though the upper class are blaming the working class for everything that is wrong with the sport I do honestly think if they don't have anywhere to hunt then they should not get the dog in the first place. It is typical of the selfish ME ME ME society we live in now...I WANT so i will have regardless if it impacts on someone else. Poor lads cannot get any land to hunt so it is ok for them to poach, it's not their fault there is not enough land.....what a load of shite It will be more grim for the sport because too many people are poaching and not giving a shit about anyone else, the land or the quarry. Yes i do believe hare coursing was banned because of the type of people it attracted. And also for the same reasons as fox hunting was banned, because people/antis perceived it as a blood sport enjoyed by blood thirsty people.....Answered two questions in one there in case you hadn't noticed Of course not all people who stray across boundaries are idiots, Leveller never said they were, and he is not making any distinction between hunts and lurchermen, everyone else is doing that. I can remember years ago on my normal walk with the dogs, in a place frequented by dog walkers, a group of men out with terriers digging to a fox. And even then, knowing even less than i do now thinking, why???? This is a public place, no farms or sheep anywhere near, the fox are not near enough houses to be causing a problem....so why? I think that is the point Leveller was making. Yes there is a class system in hunting, just as there is in any other activity. But is this class distinction not part of our 'Tradition' and something i hope we never lose because it is tradition. Whilst a lot of the time i agree with a lot of what you say, i have a few questions on this. If you get an area, where there is a large estate, farns etc. And someone who is smart enough, and good enough at what they do, gets the vermin control on the estate, and through that, gets in with the farms and has permission eventually across the whole area, does what they do well, and all the landowners are happy. What does that leave? Say you then get someone starting out or someone moves into the area, how do they go about getting onto land? Should they not bother? Are they not the future of the sport? What do they do? You call them selfish, but what about the first guy? He has all of the land, they just want some? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,254 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Leveller, get some good sleep mate.....your race is tomorrow and make sure you wipe your chin!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
South hams hunter 8,924 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 You want the tradition yet you shouldn't get a dog unless you have ground? Wasn't the Lurcher created so that the commoner didn't get fined for owning a greyhound and he was able to poach the land? Yes i can see your point regarding tradition/lurchers But i has gone wayyyyyyyy beyond that now, less land to hunt and a great many more people hunting, people do not hunt because they need the food any more, in fact most people do not hunt for any other reason than bragging rights So why do you hunt? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 You want the tradition yet you shouldn't get a dog unless you have ground? Wasn't the Lurcher created so that the commoner didn't get fined for owning a greyhound and he was able to poach the land? Yes i can see your point regarding tradition/lurchers But i has gone wayyyyyyyy beyond that now, less land to hunt and a great many more people hunting, people do not hunt because they need the food any more, in fact most people do not hunt for any other reason than bragging rights Moll if you read back what you have just typed surely you can see that it could quite easily be something that an anti would say? I dont hunt for bragging rights, I dont hunt purely for pest control, I enjoy working my dogs for no other reason at all. Its only been 7 years since the ban and people are starting to forget already I never said you did Red Do you drive fields, smashing gates, churning up crops, leaving quarry dead, not even bothering your arse to take it home to eat, or even stash it away to collect later.....I doubt you do, neither do I. But the difference between you and i is.......the idiots that do do all of the things i talk about which make me seem like an anti in your eyes, do effect me and my life, and have become so much worse in the last few years, and yes the majority of it has been done by 'poor young lads with no-where else to work their dogs'. Are they the ones constantly being pulled by the police, do they have police knocking on their doors. Probably not, but I do, and i am getting really sick of it. Just because you don't encounter it personally, don't mean it is not happening, because it is. This year already, during the summer, i have had gamekeepers at my door....hare and deer poaching ...... in June/July. Normally i am only harassed through the winter, seems seasons don't mean anything any more either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yes i do believe hare coursing was banned because of the type of people it attracted. And also for the same reasons as fox hunting was banned, because people/antis perceived it as a blood sport enjoyed by blood thirsty people.....Answered two questions in one there in case you hadn't noticed Hare coursing wasn't specifically banned though Moll, the single act of hunting any mammal with dogs was banned and hare coursing and fox hunting then became illegal as a by product. Even hunting rats and rabbits is just as illegal as hunting foxes and hares without complying with the conditions laid down in the act... I do think certain species were specifically banned for reasons though Malt...as i said, why the hare and not the rabbit (On permission)? What about mink and grey squirrels though? Both are harmful invasive species now legally off limits too, they just don't gain the headlines or seem to have the status that foxes and hares get.. I think the organised nature of the big coursing events and mounted hunts made them a bigger target for antis and biased media coverage in the run up to the hunting ban and got used as examples.. I think rabbits and rats gained exemption because they are widely known as pests even outside the circles of people involved in hunting and rural way of life and including them in the ban would have stretched the already thin argument and sense of legitimacy for any sort ban at all... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Why do people get working dogs if there is no where to work them. You wouldn't buy a lawnmower if you didn't have a garden! Leveller, i understand where you are coming from, in fact it is quite easy to understand. I think some people just like to split hairs for the sake of arguing Why do people think hare coursing was banned? Was it because they are an endangered species....No Was it because to chase a hare causes it more emotional fear that is does to chase a rabbit...No. Was it because they look cuter than a rabbit....Def not Could it be because of the types of people to recently get into coursing, poaching, threatening to burn down farms, driving the fields....and yes stealing normally does go hand in hand with it. Hmmmm let me see I thought there have been a few silly posts on this thread but this one takes the biscuit :laugh: In your little world have you never seen or heard any of the above So any kid getting into the game shouldnt bother because he has nowhere to go? the future will be grim for our sport if all kids threw the towel in for this reason So hare coursing was banned because it was attracting the wrong sort of participants? .............. Why was fox hunting banned then? The point I was trying to make was that not all people who stray across boundrys are idiots Is it just me or does it seem as though theres sort of an upper class and working class in the hunting game? It always feels as though the upper class are blaming the working class for everything that is wrong with the sport I do honestly think if they don't have anywhere to hunt then they should not get the dog in the first place. It is typical of the selfish ME ME ME society we live in now...I WANT so i will have regardless if it impacts on someone else. Poor lads cannot get any land to hunt so it is ok for them to poach, it's not their fault there is not enough land.....what a load of shite It will be more grim for the sport because too many people are poaching and not giving a shit about anyone else, the land or the quarry. Yes i do believe hare coursing was banned because of the type of people it attracted. And also for the same reasons as fox hunting was banned, because people/antis perceived it as a blood sport enjoyed by blood thirsty people.....Answered two questions in one there in case you hadn't noticed Of course not all people who stray across boundaries are idiots, Leveller never said they were, and he is not making any distinction between hunts and lurchermen, everyone else is doing that. I can remember years ago on my normal walk with the dogs, in a place frequented by dog walkers, a group of men out with terriers digging to a fox. And even then, knowing even less than i do now thinking, why???? This is a public place, no farms or sheep anywhere near, the fox are not near enough houses to be causing a problem....so why? I think that is the point Leveller was making. Yes there is a class system in hunting, just as there is in any other activity. But is this class distinction not part of our 'Tradition' and something i hope we never lose because it is tradition. Whilst a lot of the time i agree with a lot of what you say, i have a few questions on this. If you get an area, where there is a large estate, farns etc. And someone who is smart enough, and good enough at what they do, gets the vermin control on the estate, and through that, gets in with the farms and has permission eventually across the whole area, does what they do well, and all the landowners are happy. What does that leave? Say you then get someone starting out or someone moves into the area, how do they go about getting onto land? Should they not bother? Are they not the future of the sport? What do they do? You call them selfish, but what about the first guy? He has all of the land, they just want some? You could have dozens of scenarios, and dozens of answers Ja. I am not defending or attacking all, but simply giving another insight since everyone was so hell bent on the opposite. I have no answer to your scenario, i don't know how you could expect someone to have one...... I can give you the 'in an ideal world' answer if you want I still cannot accept that it is ok to take something from someone who has worked hard for it, just because they cannot have it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yes i do believe hare coursing was banned because of the type of people it attracted. And also for the same reasons as fox hunting was banned, because people/antis perceived it as a blood sport enjoyed by blood thirsty people.....Answered two questions in one there in case you hadn't noticed Hare coursing wasn't specifically banned though Moll, the single act of hunting any mammal with dogs was banned and hare coursing and fox hunting then became illegal as a by product. Even hunting rats and rabbits is just as illegal as hunting foxes and hares without complying with the conditions laid down in the act... I do think certain species were specifically banned for reasons though Malt...as i said, why the hare and not the rabbit (On permission)? What about mink and grey squirrels though? Both are harmful invasive species now legally off limits too, they just don't gain the headlines or seem to have the status that foxes and hares get.. I think the organised nature of the big coursing events and mounted hunts made them a bigger target for antis and biased media coverage in the run up to the hunting ban and got used as examples.. I think rabbits and rats gained exemption because they are widely known as pests even outside the circles of people involved in hunting and rural way of life and including them in the ban would have stretched the already thin argument and sense of legitimacy for any sort ban at all... I completely agree Malt, said so myself earlier regarding hunts. I still think hare were banned for a reason though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ideation 8,216 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Why do people get working dogs if there is no where to work them. You wouldn't buy a lawnmower if you didn't have a garden! Leveller, i understand where you are coming from, in fact it is quite easy to understand. I think some people just like to split hairs for the sake of arguing Why do people think hare coursing was banned? Was it because they are an endangered species....No Was it because to chase a hare causes it more emotional fear that is does to chase a rabbit...No. Was it because they look cuter than a rabbit....Def not Could it be because of the types of people to recently get into coursing, poaching, threatening to burn down farms, driving the fields....and yes stealing normally does go hand in hand with it. Hmmmm let me see I thought there have been a few silly posts on this thread but this one takes the biscuit :laugh: In your little world have you never seen or heard any of the above So any kid getting into the game shouldnt bother because he has nowhere to go? the future will be grim for our sport if all kids threw the towel in for this reason So hare coursing was banned because it was attracting the wrong sort of participants? .............. Why was fox hunting banned then? The point I was trying to make was that not all people who stray across boundrys are idiots Is it just me or does it seem as though theres sort of an upper class and working class in the hunting game? It always feels as though the upper class are blaming the working class for everything that is wrong with the sport I do honestly think if they don't have anywhere to hunt then they should not get the dog in the first place. It is typical of the selfish ME ME ME society we live in now...I WANT so i will have regardless if it impacts on someone else. Poor lads cannot get any land to hunt so it is ok for them to poach, it's not their fault there is not enough land.....what a load of shite It will be more grim for the sport because too many people are poaching and not giving a shit about anyone else, the land or the quarry. Yes i do believe hare coursing was banned because of the type of people it attracted. And also for the same reasons as fox hunting was banned, because people/antis perceived it as a blood sport enjoyed by blood thirsty people.....Answered two questions in one there in case you hadn't noticed Of course not all people who stray across boundaries are idiots, Leveller never said they were, and he is not making any distinction between hunts and lurchermen, everyone else is doing that. I can remember years ago on my normal walk with the dogs, in a place frequented by dog walkers, a group of men out with terriers digging to a fox. And even then, knowing even less than i do now thinking, why???? This is a public place, no farms or sheep anywhere near, the fox are not near enough houses to be causing a problem....so why? I think that is the point Leveller was making. Yes there is a class system in hunting, just as there is in any other activity. But is this class distinction not part of our 'Tradition' and something i hope we never lose because it is tradition. Whilst a lot of the time i agree with a lot of what you say, i have a few questions on this. If you get an area, where there is a large estate, farns etc. And someone who is smart enough, and good enough at what they do, gets the vermin control on the estate, and through that, gets in with the farms and has permission eventually across the whole area, does what they do well, and all the landowners are happy. What does that leave? Say you then get someone starting out or someone moves into the area, how do they go about getting onto land? Should they not bother? Are they not the future of the sport? What do they do? You call them selfish, but what about the first guy? He has all of the land, they just want some? You could have dozens of scenarios, and dozens of answers Ja. I am not defending or attacking all, but simply giving another insight since everyone was so hell bent on the opposite. I have no answer to your scenario, i don't know how you could expect someone to have one...... I can give you the 'in an ideal world' answer if you want I still cannot accept that it is ok to take something from someone who has worked hard for it, just because they cannot have it though. I can see what you are saying and agree to a point. But the simple fact is, for some of us, it's what makes us tick, its just in you, you know that. And some are lucky enough to be able to live it out in the open and up front, with permission etc, but others need to be covert. Its the nature of it all. There would never have been lurchers, if it wasn't for folk wanting to take game from other folks land. It willalways happen. But its f****d anyhow. Not enough land or game. This country is dying a death when it comes to hunting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 You want the tradition yet you shouldn't get a dog unless you have ground? Wasn't the Lurcher created so that the commoner didn't get fined for owning a greyhound and he was able to poach the land? Yes i can see your point regarding tradition/lurchers But i has gone wayyyyyyyy beyond that now, less land to hunt and a great many more people hunting, people do not hunt because they need the food any more, in fact most people do not hunt for any other reason than bragging rights So why do you hunt? For food, for pest control, but mainly for the dogs. But that has nothing at all to do with the above, you are trying to stretch tradition to it's furthest point here Not all tradition survives, or stays the same, there is always room for evolution within tradition. It's the ruination i don't like Quote Link to post Share on other sites
South hams hunter 8,924 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Well moll why do you hunt? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I completely agree Malt, said so myself earlier regarding hunts. I still think hare were banned for a reason though The likes of us will never know the real reasons Moll! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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