ammo types

[pigeon1 1]

Hi guys could some one explain centre fire ammo types and what they all do and the pros and cons of each. I am in the process of applying for my fac and am looking at a 223 or 243 for fox control and want to no whats best and what to put down for ammo type on the form. Being a ex soldier ball tracer and blank (not much use for that) are what i am use too. I am under the impression expanding rounds are the best for the job as they fragment on impact to make a quick kill and as they fragment this prevent ricochets. thanks all in advance

[paulus 26]

Hi guys could some one explain centre fire ammo types and what they all do and the pros and cons of each. I am in the process of applying for my fac and am looking at a 223 or 243 for fox control and want to no whats best and what to put down for ammo type on the form. Being a ex soldier ball tracer and blank (not much use for that) are what i am use too. I am under the impression expanding rounds are the best for the job as they fragment on impact to make a quick kill and as they fragment this prevent ricochets. thanks all in advance

wrong on all accounts, you dont need to put type down just calibre and the only expanding ammo you will get is in 22 rimfire and they bounce like mother feckers if you miss

[riohog 5,708]

Hi guys could some one explain centre fire ammo types and what they all do and the pros and cons of each. I am in the process of applying for my fac and am looking at a 223 or 243 for fox control and want to no whats best and what to put down for ammo type on the form. Being a ex soldier ball tracer and blank (not much use for that) are what i am use too. I am under the impression expanding rounds are the best for the job as they fragment on impact to make a quick kill and as they fragment this prevent ricochets. thanks all in advance

wrong on all accounts, you dont need to put type down just calibre and the only expanding ammo you will get is in 22 rimfire and they bounce like mother feckers if you miss

so you only get expanding ammo in .22 eh ? thats strange ive been using expanding ammo on full bore rifles for 30 odd years and yes you need to be licenced specificly for it ie. deer and vermin

[The Seeker 3,048]

You won't need to put down what type of ammo you intend to use as Paulus already said

 

Only thing they are to make a decision to grant you is which calibre. This will depend on the land you have permission to shoot on and what it is passed for. For example if the land you have permission to shoot over is only passed for .22 rim fire they will not grant you a .223 or .243 for that piece of land unless you get it passed by the fire arms dept. It's all to do with having "good reason"

 

ATB

 

 

[paulus 26]

Hi guys could some one explain centre fire ammo types and what they all do and the pros and cons of each. I am in the process of applying for my fac and am looking at a 223 or 243 for fox control and want to no whats best and what to put down for ammo type on the form. Being a ex soldier ball tracer and blank (not much use for that) are what i am use too. I am under the impression expanding rounds are the best for the job as they fragment on impact to make a quick kill and as they fragment this prevent ricochets. thanks all in advance

wrong on all accounts, you dont need to put type down just calibre and the only expanding ammo you will get is in 22 rimfire and they bounce like mother feckers if you miss

so you only get expanding ammo in .22 eh ? thats strange ive been using expanding ammo on full bore rifles for 30 odd years and yes you need to be licenced specificly for it ie. deer and vermin

section 5 :thumbs:If warwickshire Police have there way, you will all be off for a 5 year stretch !

I'll follow it up with BASC tomorrow.

 

Read from the bottom up;-

 

Subject: RE: Question re Hornady A-max bullets ?

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:18:45 +0100

From: "Matthew Perring (Firearms)" <Matthew.Perring@basc.....uk>

To: My - e-mail address removed.

 

Dear Mr W,

 

Having spoken to Hornady in the USA, the bullets your refer to i.e. A max are designed to expand

on impact in the same way as V max missiles and you would need specific authority on your firearms

certificate to purchase and acquire these bullets or ammunition contain such missiles.

 

The only other type of ammunition for match use which looks like an expanding bullet is the Sierra

match king which is not designed to expand on impact.

 

I hope this answers your question

 

Yours truly,

 

 

 

Matthew Perring

Firearms Officer

British Association for Shooting and Conservation,

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Matthew Perring (Firearms)

Sent: 25 September 2006 14:56

To: My - e-mail address removed.

Subject: RE: Question re Hornady A-max bullets ?

 

Dear Mr W,

 

All I can advise you is that any ammunition "designed" to expand upon impact is classed as section

5 prohibited weapons unless you have a requirement to use such ammunition for quarry shooting.

 

As far as I am aware all V max bullets made by hornady are designed to expand on impact and A max

are standard target ammunition. However looking at Hornady documents, there seems to be very

similar designs between A and V Max.

 

I will investigate this issue and if necessary involve the Forensic Science Service through the

British Shooting Sport Council (BSSC) and the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO).

 

I will be in touch as soon as I can

 

Best wishes

 

Matthew Perring

Firearms Officer

British Association for Shooting and Conservation,

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Mr W

Sent: 25 September 2006 14:27

To: Firearms

Subject: Question re Hornady A-max bullets ?

 

Hi There,

 

I'm a BASC member (#) & as you can see from the mails below, MidwayUK have held a

shipment, as they class Hornady A-Max match ammo as "expanding" ! Now I have always been lead to

believe that its match ammo & that the V-Max range are the expanding ones.

 

Can you give your opinion on this & or enquire with Warwickshire Police regarding this ? I'll

place my order minus them for now, but many of my club mates that use these could be breaking the

law if Warwickshire Police are to be believed !

 

Thanks

 

Mr W.

 

--- Gavin Mair <midwayuk.com> wrote:

 

> From: "Gavin Mair" <midwayuk.com>

> To: "'Mr W'"

> Subject: RE: Midway UK order xxxxxxx

> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:04:21 +0100

>

> Dear Mr W,

>

> We have conferred with Warwickshire Police Firearms and they concur with

> us in that these are expanding and not match. As you appreciate we have

> to be very careful in these matters and appreciate your understanding.

>

<SNIP>

>

> Once again sorry for this inconvenience.

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Gavin Mair

> Midway UK Ltd

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Mr W

> Sent: 25 September 2006 09:09

> To: Gavin Mair

> Subject: Re: Midway UK order xxxxxxxx

>

> Hi Gavin,

>

> Well that's news to me, V-max are expanding, A-max are classed as match

> ammo anywhere else I've

> bought them. But if your company insists on mis-classifying them then

> please remove them from the

> order & ship the rest.

>

> Thanks

>

> Mr W.

>

> --- Gavin Mair <midwayuk.com> wrote:

>

> > Dear Mr W,

> >

> >

> >

> > Our system placed a hold on your order as it has correctly highlighted

> > the 'Hornady A-Max Bullets 22 Caliber' as expanding ammunition and as

> > such this needs to be collected or purchased face to face on

> production

> > of your FAC. Our 'Ordering Information' page explains this, I have

> > copied it below:

> >

> > EXPANDING AMMUNITION - BULLET HEADS

> >

> > We cannot post expanding bullet heads direct to the customer, it is a

> > legal requirement that all such ammunition be purchased face to face

> > with a Registered Firearms Dealer (RFD) who will need to check your

> > firearms certificate to ensure that you have a variation that entitles

> > you to these items. All other bullets i.e. full metal Jacket, match

> and

> > lead cast bullets can be shipped direct to you the customer.

> >

> > If wish to purchase expanding bullet heads we will need you to provide

> > us with your local RFD details and we will need to confirm that they

> > will accept these on your behalf. If the RFD has an account with us we

> > can ship to them, if not we will require them to fax their RFD

> > certificate (we can do this on your behalf if you can supply us with

> > their contact details). Once this is done you can place the order with

> > their address as an 'alternative delivery address' when you place the

> > order. Once this arrangement is in place all future orders from

> MidwayUK

> > that require validation of your firearms certificate can be shipped to

> > your local RFD. If you have any queries please do not hesitate to

> > contact customer service at: midwayuk.com or by telephone on:

> 0845

> > 22 66 055.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> >

> > Gavin Mair

> > Midway UK Ltd

[riohog 5,708]

Hi guys could some one explain centre fire ammo types and what they all do and the pros and cons of each. I am in the process of applying for my fac and am looking at a 223 or 243 for fox control and want to no whats best and what to put down for ammo type on the form. Being a ex soldier ball tracer and blank (not much use for that) are what i am use too. I am under the impression expanding rounds are the best for the job as they fragment on impact to make a quick kill and as they fragment this prevent ricochets. thanks all in advance

wrong on all accounts, you dont need to put type down just calibre and the only expanding ammo you will get is in 22 rimfire and they bounce like mother feckers if you miss

so you only get expanding ammo in .22 eh ? thats strange ive been using expanding ammo on full bore rifles for 30 odd years and yes you need to be licenced specificly for it ie. deer and vermin

section 5

correct

[wilbert 6]

_{Conflict of advice here so i wont add my views or experience of just having been granted a FAC as this would further confuse things.}

[riohog 5,708]

_{Conflict of advice here so i wont add my views or experience of just having been granted a FAC as this would further confuse things.}

you need sec 5 for expan ding ammo fact you must use it on deer under the deer act .

[pigeon1 1]

Thanks for the quick replys, hope i have not opend a can of worms on me second post . The land is cleared up to 243 and the foxes are causing the farmer a lot of problems. They are well out of shotgun range each time i spot them and their are lots of backstops on the land so it the only way forward, but if some one could explain the ammo types pros and cons that would be good thanks

[The Duncan 802]

Just been granted my .243 on top of other calibres, says I'm allowed expanding ammunition for use on deer. Thats in Thames Valley area.

[wilbert 6]

_{Conflict of advice here so i wont add my views or experience of just having been granted a FAC as this would further confuse things.}

you need sec 5 for expan ding ammo fact you must use it on deer under the deer act .

 

It was posts 2 and 4 that I couldn't understand, nowt wrong with your advice as that is what I thought as the application process is still fresh in my mind.

[dixyhmr 62]

Put down you require expanding ammunition for each calibre. simple.

 

Forget the .243 if its just for fox ( no deer ) as a .22 or .20 will be perfect.

[pigeon1 1]

Torn between 223 and 243 .243 as there is deer on the land and may regret not getting it at a late date but 223 is a caliber i have a experience with. well 5.56 i have experience off.

[SportingShooter 0]

Pigeon,

 

I think in answer to your original question, there are three types of ammunition which you'll commonly come across when looking to shoot live targets, particularly vermin.

 

They are;

 

Hollow Points - traditional rounds designed to expand on impact violently. Small indent in the tip of the round. They are very effective on larger animals such as Foxes.

 

Ballistic Tips - these are still hollow point rounds but instead of an exposed cavity in the tip of the round, there is a plastic pointed tip inserted which causes the round to expand and fragment on impact. These are very popular rounds for Fox and other vermin due to the massive tissue damage they cause.

 

Soft Points - again more traditional rounds which are also designed to expand on impact. They have an exposed lead tip which mushrooms on impact causing the rest of the round to follow suit. Nothing wrong with these for Fox or other vermin but they offer a more controlled expansion rather than a violent explosion.

 

Most fox shooters seem to favour ballistic tipped rounds lately due to their knock down power with massive tissue damage resulting in a clean kill.

 

As you mention, there are "Full Metal Jacket" rounds which are designed to stay intact on impact, like the ball ammunition you'd be used to. These aren't particularly suitable for live shooting due to the possibility of them making a small wound channel which could injure rather than kill the animal.

 

SS

[pigeon1 1]

Thanks very much for your input guys. sporting shooter that great thats what i was looking for.