border terrier / red fell

[noricus 2]

Hello terriermen and diggers!

i hunt and dig in the austrian alps, using wirehaired styrian hounds above ground and a teckel / the jagdterriers of a friend when we have to bolt/dig. Both have rather big chests of about 45-47cm and in tight earths, especially rocky ones this is a big handicap, at and above treeline there are marmots and foxes will use their burrows, also they like to use crags in rock, this is dangerous and hard/impossible to dig.As the red fell and the borderterrier stem from landscapes that have this feature i would like to know which kind and size of terrier gamekeepers there use( grouse shoots for instance). we also dig to badger, and here a dog needs to know butt from breath.meaning attack when the badger tries to dig away and stay back when it counters, as even very big and game jagdterriers can not kill a badger and get a bad mauling instead. i know a little borderterrier that belongs to a friend, actually not of working stock, but she´s quite hard on marten and fox, and only 27cm(10,5 inches) at the shoulder, but appears to me very short jawed almost like a pug- are working borders usally like this?(I saw pictures of some borders on:lakeland hunting memories(terriers,borrans,breeders) that looked ok to me, or are these red fells.

thanks for answers and good hunting!

[BEARINATOR 2,872]

Borders on that page http://www.lakelandhuntingmemories.com/TerriersBorrans.htm Welcome to the forum

[noricus 2]

yes-that is what i saw- they look racey enough, you know teckels and jagdterriers are nowadays used a lot for gamedrives on wild boars and less and less people hunt to ground, that changes the type i guess, and most jagds are to bloody big , a fox has maybe 35cm chest circumfence- i have the impression most people like a big terrier to brag, but i want an earthdog to hunt, my teckel is allright, on the hard side though and to big and his short legs make crags a no-go.....so i am looking around!

[noricus 2]

Anyways my question was: are there breeders among you that breed for a border(type) terrier with the good wirecoat with undewool ( it´s really cold here when we do most of the hunting) slim chest ( under 42cm!!!), strong teeth and a good jaw like in the pictures on that page? i have heard that borders could be kenneled with hounds-which is not easy with jagdterriers....i am not looking for pedigrees or rosettes...agile and game but not stupid! i reasoned a gamekeeper would need and therefor breed terriers that get it´s job done regularly without getting mauled every time!

[dee mac 579]

nice to read a post a genuine one at that for a change from a fella who seems to be level headed .there still plenty of lads that work the type of dog you a referring to and they come in all sorts there s border, border crosses ,lakie, fell and black dogs with good tight broken coat s and the good old russell is still alive well and working in many kennell all these dogs have been used through the years in rocks etc so hopefully some of the genuine lads that work this type of ground may help you out all the best in your search .

[ivebeen 176]

noricus, i dont have any answers to your post. But i am curious as to if you wouldnt mind sharing some pictures of the areas where you hunt marmots. I know of an area with lots of big yellow bellied marmots, and it seems awfully scary to enter a dog there, huge boulder piles on the sides of hills. I would love to see the area you hunt the marmots!

[noricus 2]

Above treeline, we shoot them actually with a hornet or a 222rem, if they make it back into the burrow we use the teckel to draw them-they are not dug to, but in this area foxes use marmot burrows, an they are tight! below 1200m altitude fox dens are often badgerdens, european badger often weigh up to 40pounds, so there You can use a bigger dog, but foxes often take to rockcrags-so i am looking for a slim agile dog- a friend used to have a bitch jagdterrier/teckel cross- she was very agile and slim, not so good in deep earths, but hell in rockdens, and if the fox didn´t bolt she would kill and draw- but like a teckel( dachshund is translated badgerhound-they will run tracks and give tongue) she couldn´t resist a fresh track... and we lost her last winter.i have no idea how to put a picture here but of course ther is lots of boulders, also often a long days hike from the valley, so no heavy gear-the dog has to have huntinginstinct, i mean it should know what´s possible-when hounds hunt a fox and it goes to ground, it´s often not a big den-we use solohounds, so the fox has a lot of distance between him and the hound, we try to shoot it as it runs along ( usually does a big circle), if it goes to ground we want to bolt and shoot it or dig it or the earthdog must finish it, we also work earths without hounds, mainly in december,january and february, in the valleys, because on the mountains above or at treeline it willbe lots of snow!

[noricus 2]

I know from reading a few threads that some people here actually breed and work terriers, and also the type i am looking for-i have also gathered that good pups are mainly given to friends so how would i get in contact with someone breeding red fells/borders of the type seen on the link www.lakelandhuntingmemories.com/TerriersBorrans

or borderterriers with good working abilities: strong jaw, good nose, good voice when baying, but the will to bolt and if necessary mix it, and a correct size. And maybe the "Working"breeders can explain why borders seem to grow ever leggier and more pugfaced? more of the good stuff isn´t always better, to much is never good!