training tips?

[bird 9,898]

 

very true , after 15-20 odd rabbits with some being hard runs, some might think feck it and kill it there leave it. As you said years ago mate , its not natural to catch 20 rabbits in a night for its dinner , lol .ive found try to keep them keen, with few days off and they bring back.

Bryn from good 100 yds catch with this!

 

[Casso 1,261]

The term tug play might put off hardened dogmen, but as Chalkwarren pointed out it fools the dog by channeling his orally inclined impulse in your favour, nature has programmed the canine to be forever an optimist , if a dog believes you have the potential to evoke energy in the form of a tug item he will jump through hoops for you,

 

the world is full of highly trained canines who will put themselves in the line of fire for nothing more than a play(Prey) item, all it is, is the combination of a driven dog and an avenue to express his drive energy in the form of a play(Prey) item with you controlling it ,

 

in the same way that its impossible for a human to train a cat to sit motionless for hours on end, a mouse or rabbit or the potential to catch a mouse or rabbit can , its the same potential we use with the dog, the potential for energy causes impulse control in predators , energy in the form of the prey(play) item , its working with what mother nature has designed not against it,,

Edited August 2, 2012 by CHALKWARREN

[Lab 10,979]

Some very well written and informative posts here but i cant see me changing my ways after reading them. I can hold my hands up and say i know very little about running dogs so if you guys feel that 'tug training' is the way forward in teaching your lurchers to retrieve and not to be hard mouthed then thats fine by me too.... Alien to me however as it goes against everything i know and have been taught over the years........but as stated Running dogs are very different from Gundogs.

Do all these Lurchers that have been trained in this way have soft mouths then..... and can they retrieve game from fur to feather perfectly intact......?..

[chris87 297]

Lab> there is a massive difference in using a tool like tug training and simply encouraging a dog to 'rag' a dummy. Tug training, done properly, with all the relevant rules and commands put in place before you begin, really encourages a dog to bring its catch right to you. The thing is, you train the dog to grab the dummy on command, and you also teach the 'give' or 'leave it' command. This way, you stay in control of the game at all times. Dogs love the game because it taps into their drive and gives them a lot of fun using natural behaviour at the same time as being up close and physical with you.

 

When it comes to catching real rabbits, the dog is already 'conditioned' to bring something back to you in order to feel good and fulfilled. In fact, since I've been using this training aid, as I'd call it, I've never had young dogs try and shake or rag their first catches, something which happened from time to time in the past, before I started tug training.

It is particularly useful with excitable, high drive pups, as they learn to self control: they sit, waiting for the command to reach for the tug toy, and they learn to give it straight away because giving the toy up to you is simply a step in the game which results in more fun, tugging and retrieving for them. Unless you have seen it in action, it might seem to be contrary to most traditional types of dog training, but believe me, it works much better than any other bonding, or retrieving training I've ever done in the past.

 

If you're interested, I can send email you the 4 articles I wrote about how to do it. You can also Google tug training: there are loads of videos etc on it.

skycat i would be very interested in reading them articles if possable

cheers

[Lab 10,979]

Lab-tastic said;

 

Some very well written and informative posts here but i cant see me changing my ways after reading them. I can hold my hands up and say i know very little about running dogs so if you guys feel that 'tug training' is the way forward in teaching your lurchers to retrieve and not to be hard mouthed then thats fine by me too.... Alien to me however as it goes against everything i know and have been taught over the years........but as stated Running dogs are very different from Gundogs.

Do all these Lurchers that have been trained in this way have soft mouths then..... and can they retrieve game from fur to feather perfectly intact......?..

 

Men can chose their own path, as regards dog training,..nothing is set in stone...

 

All the best, Chalkwarren..

 

I appreciate that mate.....i dont take anything for granted and nothing is gospel in the world of training as you point out. Reading the thread again there seems to be alot to this 'tug' training that needs to be adhered to make it work. I just thought telling a newbie to play tug with a pup would/could be a recipe for disaster.........

[skycat 6,173]

You are absolutely right there Lab. The rules of the game need to be put in place first, as I said before, or things can degenerate into the dog thinking it has the right to grab and pull at anything, and refuse to give it up when told to.

Like anything we do in life, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things; dog training is no different. The biggest difference between sighthounds and gun dog breeds is that historically, the retrieve has never been uppermost when breeding for working ability in sighthounds. So the training needs to engage the dog and human together in a much more positive way for retrieving to be fixed in the dog's head.

 

Working sighthounds, or those that are correctly bred from excellent working stock, can have a very high prey drive, a drive which culminates in a kill, rather than a simple retrieve. Whilst most lurchers will retrieve rabbits unharmed if they are correctly reared and entered, there's not many dogs which would continue to retrieve a long ear live to hand after they'd had a good kicking from a few.

 

The intention to hunt and catch and kill, as opposed to retrieve shot game which is already dead or incapacitated, is a much more primitive drive, and as I see it, the lurcher which kills has completed the whole hunt, chase, catch and kill spectrum, as a result feels much more possessive about giving up such a catch if it hasn't been trained to do so in such a way that also fulfils a need in the dog. Too many lurchers see bringing their catch to their owners as the end of their fun, and as a result, refuse to do so, especially those with Saluki in their breeding. Saluki blooded dogs which are bred for mega high drive are not often bred to be biddable as well, which is why we are seeing a whole clutch of new-to-lurcher owners having problems in this department. You simply can't train such dogs with the old fashioned "I say: you obey" methods.

[Catcher 1 639]

just got myself my first lurcher since its my first just wanting to know what you old times do to train them good tips on recall retrieving sitting and staying and jumping

ATB

 

Just take it one step at a time mate.If the dog reacts to certain commands go with them first.

[hunter1995 92]

try the tug training method but my pup is so dosiel (dont think its spelt right) when i tempt it she mouths it then i try to play with her she drops it

[CRAIG+SHEEBA2012 0]

I wouldn't be playing 'tug' with it. You'll end up getting a real hard mouthed dog and you wont be able to get game of it...............

Tug training is an excellent way to sort out any retrieving problems mate and won,t make the dog hard mouthed if done correctly

How can it be done correctly mate. You want the dog to retrieve but you play tug with it, praising the dog for ragging the dummy. The pup will take this over to retreiving game......you wont see that in the Gundog word, why is it different in Lurchers?..

ask Skycat cause I can,t be arsed lol, its a misconception though that it fxcks the dog up, I done a wee bit tug training with my collie cur last season because she was dropping the bunnys at my feet and they were fooking off then dog chasing/ catching them again and so on, it was doing my head in so i done a couple of sessions of tug training and she starting holding onto them long enough for me to take them from her mouth so it doe,s work, It didn,t make her any harder on the rabbits I can also see how it would help with a sighthoundy type which has no interest in picking the dummy up

Better ways than playing tug...........

you right there playing tug of war with the dog will just make it crunch rabbits and you then hav to rive them from the dog not gudd

[reddawn 2,173]

iv used tug trainin on my last 3 lurchers, they all retreive now as tho they are naturals, but saying that i never had probs before i tried the tug training, i just use it as a diffrent method to get same results...

[skycat 6,173]

try the tug training method but my pup is so dosiel (dont think its spelt right) when i tempt it she mouths it then i try to play with her she drops it

 

Rather than being docile, the pup is showing that she is uncomfortable about being in 'prey drive' up close to you. She is lacking confidence and trust in you: you need to start the game very low key. Just gentle play, and without saying anything to her: voice often puts unconfident pups off. If you have previously told her off for mouthing your hand or picking up things she shouldn't, you will have to do a lot of work to reverse the process. I never tell pups off for picking up things they shouldn't have: socks, shoes etc. It is my fault if a pup starts chewing something, because I left it available for the pup. It is never the pup's fault because it is just being a pup, and all pups like to chew, run around with stuff in their mouths.

 

Even something as simple as picking up a small puppy by its scruff, or acting too loud or hasty, can make a pup feel that it is a prey animal, not the predator you want it to be. This is particularly true of the more sensitive breeds like Collies and many sighthounds.

[skycat 6,173]

I wouldn't be playing 'tug' with it. You'll end up getting a real hard mouthed dog and you wont be able to get game of it...............

Tug training is an excellent way to sort out any retrieving problems mate and won,t make the dog hard mouthed if done correctly

How can it be done correctly mate. You want the dog to retrieve but you play tug with it, praising the dog for ragging the dummy. The pup will take this over to retreiving game......you wont see that in the Gundog word, why is it different in Lurchers?..

ask Skycat cause I can,t be arsed lol, its a misconception though that it fxcks the dog up, I done a wee bit tug training with my collie cur last season because she was dropping the bunnys at my feet and they were fooking off then dog chasing/ catching them again and so on, it was doing my head in so i done a couple of sessions of tug training and she starting holding onto them long enough for me to take them from her mouth so it doe,s work, It didn,t make her any harder on the rabbits I can also see how it would help with a sighthoundy type which has no interest in picking the dummy up

Better ways than playing tug...........

you right there playing tug of war with the dog will just make it crunch rabbits and you then hav to rive them from the dog not gudd

 

Don't judge a method unless you have tried it out for yourself, and done it properly, with rules put in place first. Tug training is never going to make a dog crunch rabbits if you do it right in the first place. If you want to read how to do it then pm me.

[Jumpin'Jack 68]

I use a 1/2 rabbit skin dummy with a throwing toggle

 

At first my dog wasn't interested in bringing it back.

 

I found that if I crouched down and dragged it along the floor by the toggle it got him excited as he started chasing it.

 

I would then throw the dummy to the other end of the garden and simply say "fetch".

 

Each time he brought it back to my hand, I would praise him like mad and reward him with a treat - didn't take long for him to twig on

Edited August 3, 2012 by Jumpin'Jack

[whip x grey 276]

try the tug training method but my pup is so dosiel (dont think its spelt right) when i tempt it she mouths it then i try to play with her she drops it

 

 

remeber uve only had pup a week,,,,it will be abit shy in new place,,,,what u should be doing is trying to gain its trust,,play with her to get her to come out her shell,,,if that means u have to roll about the grass so be it

 

then start her training ,,,and there,s no rush ,,everything will click into place,,just be patient

[hunter1995 92]

yeaah thinkright skycat about being uncomfortable with prey drive around me cause too her long when i was ferret wasnt intrested in the rabbits at all with older dog too but didnt run with that either but i have a skin dummy she is retrieving it half way to me so its slow steady progress but its progress none the less thanks