Working X Working?

[wyeman 1,057]

I have never owned a working Lurcher or indeed a Terrier but have been heavily involved in the owning and training of Gundogs for the past 40 years. Recently I sought advice from this Forum regarding the ownership of a Lurcher and I received many helpful replies and it is only because of temporary family commitments, I haven't already gone ahead and obtained one.

 

The overwhelming advice on these Fora demands that the only course to take, when obtaining a working dog, be it Lurcher or Terrier, is to obtain stock bred from working parents. Indeed this is the advice given in the Gundog world - worker X worker only, hence the importance of pedigree's. However, even in my limited experience, the resultant offspring, frequently does not reflect the quality of the parents. If they did, we would all have Champions!

 

Whilst continuing my search for further information, I came across a thread on this Forum entitled 'Hog hunting in Oz', authored by Ned Makim and I found it fascinating, particularly in relation to his views on breeding suitable dogs. In no uncertain terms he expresses a view that he has used, admittedly, because of a limited gene pool, dogs from show breeding and breeds of dog, which initially appear unsuitable, to produce his own line of dogs. Without argument his line of dogs 'Walk the Walk'. Ned Makim, it appears, looks for certain characteristics in his dogs but also goes onto say that even dogs from show backgrounds, sometimes have, for want of a better word, locked in abilities, that are released through the breeding process.

 

There will be many of you that will strongly oppose any variance from a strictly proven working X working programme, but I would still welcome every ones opinion.

[I'm...a ...ginger 11]

well you can buy a show whippet and it can work..just fine.

I think alot of worker x worker pups people buy as they are from working stock and its peace of mind so one can say to one's self well the dam and sire are working .so the pup should do the same.....

will it give you a better chance? i don't know tbh

Edited July 31, 2012 by I'm...a ...ginger

[Ideation 8,216]

Aye, but the aussies etc will cull a lot harder than us.

[bunnys 1,228]

I have never owned a working Lurcher or indeed a Terrier but have been heavily involved in the owning and training of Gundogs for the past 40 years. Recently I sought advice from this Forum regarding the ownership of a Lurcher and I received many helpful replies and it is only because of temporary family commitments, I haven't already gone ahead and obtained one.

 

The overwhelming advice on these Fora demands that the only course to take, when obtaining a working dog, be it Lurcher or Terrier, is to obtain stock bred from working parents. Indeed this is the advice given in the Gundog world - worker X worker only, hence the importance of pedigree's. However, even in my limited experience, the resultant offspring, frequently does not reflect the quality of the parents. If they did, we would all have Champions!

 

Whilst continuing my search for further information, I came across a thread on this Forum entitled 'Hog hunting in Oz', authored by Ned Makim and I found it fascinating, particularly in relation to his views on breeding suitable dogs. In no uncertain terms he expresses a view that he has used, admittedly, because of a limited gene pool, dogs from show breeding and breeds of dog, which initially appear unsuitable, to produce his own line of dogs. Without argument his line of dogs 'Walk the Walk'. Ned Makim, it appears, looks for certain characteristics in his dogs but also goes onto say that even dogs from show backgrounds, sometimes have, for want of a better word, locked in abilities, that are released through the breeding process.

 

There will be many of you that will strongly oppose any variance from a strictly proven working X working programme, but I would still welcome every ones opinion.

aye a good post awakening the instincts , some times lying dormant in a breed , can be very rewarding . atb bunnys.

[Richard Morgan 38]

my father bleats on about a dog called skip which was a english setter cross collie 19inches and quiet racey lost at work chasing after a bitch an old couple had took him in but couldnt control his urge to hunt so had him put down at 2 an a half 6 mths after he had been lost 1 week after my father went to the house he was devasted, he was a gift off his mate after a accidental mating the rest where culled and he was given chance of pup kept to wean the milk off the bitch by all accounts he was a fantastic dog ill put it in me fathers terms "out from 6 weeks in the fields u caught it or u didnt eat never seen or will ever have a dog ten percent of what he was couldnt catch a rabbit on a straight run,couldnt kill a fox would merally drop and contain keeping a safe distance,had to stalk a hare to have any chance, brains on tap i didnt own him he just lived with me" some dogs a breed others are made.

[artful212 394]

il take my chances with worker x worker as you say tho it doesnt always work but the odds are better

[Casso 1,261]

I have never owned a working Lurcher or indeed a Terrier but have been heavily involved in the owning and training of Gundogs for the past 40 years. Recently I sought advice from this Forum regarding the ownership of a Lurcher and I received many helpful replies and it is only because of temporary family commitments, I haven't already gone ahead and obtained one.

 

The overwhelming advice on these Fora demands that the only course to take, when obtaining a working dog, be it Lurcher or Terrier, is to obtain stock bred from working parents. Indeed this is the advice given in the Gundog world - worker X worker only, hence the importance of pedigree's. However, even in my limited experience, the resultant offspring, frequently does not reflect the quality of the parents. If they did, we would all have Champions!

 

Whilst continuing my search for further information, I came across a thread on this Forum entitled 'Hog hunting in Oz', authored by Ned Makim and I found it fascinating, particularly in relation to his views on breeding suitable dogs. In no uncertain terms he expresses a view that he has used, admittedly, because of a limited gene pool, dogs from show breeding and breeds of dog, which initially appear unsuitable, to produce his own line of dogs. Without argument his line of dogs 'Walk the Walk'. Ned Makim, it appears, looks for certain characteristics in his dogs but also goes onto say that even dogs from show backgrounds, sometimes have, for want of a better word, locked in abilities, that are released through the breeding process.

 

There will be many of you that will strongly oppose any variance from a strictly proven working X working programme, but I would still welcome every ones opinion.

 

most hunting folk will no doubt stand with the worker x as opposed to untried animals , in saying that, even a working bred dog and bitch can still throw more submissive and less

driven pups in the same litter along with highly driven dominant ones,

 

the reason for this is that mother nature must cover all avenues of evolution, a pack of canines in the wild must have both driven and less driven, confident and active plus shy and reactive, the wolf that will take a head hold on a deer and the one who takes a rear hold when the animal is subdued, while the more dominant sleep the more nervous are watching out for trouble, all are needed for a pack to function, a litter cant be bred ever to any bitch where all the pups are either active dominant or submissive shy types, they will be spaced out along the graph, dogs are still breeding with natures intent,

 

likewise i believe it possible to get show types with highly dominant driven temperaments, that can fit in with the attributes originally needed in the dog for the job, but like already stated you would need to be very familiar with the traits needed in the resulting pups and cull the rest accordingly,,

[I'm...a ...ginger 11]

Aye, but the aussies etc will cull a lot harder than us.

few mate i know run dogs out at 6 month on fox.. if its no good its culled their and then,, and for me i think its a joke.. 6 month is no age to run rabbits never mind fox.. and as we know staggs can take up till 3 year old to hit maturity

[Lab 10,979]

I have never owned a working Lurcher or indeed a Terrier but have been heavily involved in the owning and training of Gundogs for the past 40 years. Recently I sought advice from this Forum regarding the ownership of a Lurcher and I received many helpful replies and it is only because of temporary family commitments, I haven't already gone ahead and obtained one.

 

The overwhelming advice on these Fora demands that the only course to take, when obtaining a working dog, be it Lurcher or Terrier, is to obtain stock bred from working parents. Indeed this is the advice given in the Gundog world - worker X worker only, hence the importance of pedigree's. However, even in my limited experience, the resultant offspring, frequently does not reflect the quality of the parents. If they did, we would all have Champions!

 

Whilst continuing my search for further information, I came across a thread on this Forum entitled 'Hog hunting in Oz', authored by Ned Makim and I found it fascinating, particularly in relation to his views on breeding suitable dogs. In no uncertain terms he expresses a view that he has used, admittedly, because of a limited gene pool, dogs from show breeding and breeds of dog, which initially appear unsuitable, to produce his own line of dogs. Without argument his line of dogs 'Walk the Walk'. Ned Makim, it appears, looks for certain characteristics in his dogs but also goes onto say that even dogs from show backgrounds, sometimes have, for want of a better word, locked in abilities, that are released through the breeding process.

 

There will be many of you that will strongly oppose any variance from a strictly proven working X working programme, but I would still welcome every ones opinion.

Not really....all your getting is a pup from good stock so a higher chance of a great dog 'if' trained to a high standard........

[Ideation 8,216]

Aye, but the aussies etc will cull a lot harder than us.

few mate i know run dogs out at 6 month on fox.. if its no good its culled their and then,, and for me i think its a joke.. 6 month is no age to run rabbits never mind fox.. and as we know staggs can take up till 3 year old to hit maturity

 

I wasn't suggesting we all test our dogs at 6 months and then cull them when they fail.

 

Just that, the aussies and yanks i have spoken to, seem to have better all round stockmanship.

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Good post there Casso...

[chartpolski 23,243]

Aye, but the aussies etc will cull a lot harder than us.

few mate i know run dogs out at 6 month on fox.. if its no good its culled their and then,, and for me i think its a joke.. 6 month is no age to run rabbits never mind fox.. and as we know staggs can take up till 3 year old to hit maturity

 

I wasn't suggesting we all test our dogs at 6 months and then cull them when they fail.

 

Just that, the aussies and yanks i have spoken to, seem to have better all round stockmanship.

 

I've hunted with Aussies, (and Kiwi's), and Yanks, amongst others; and didn't think they had "better all round stockmanship" ! In fact, they were allways interested in how we did it here in the UK.

 

Cheers.