retrieve??

[Terrier Sam 297]

It sounds to me like the dog is scared of you taking its catch. You need to earn its trust and give a reward. The dog has made the catch and its thinking that your just going to take the rabbit away. At this point the game/fun is over. You need to make it seem like the dog will get more from retreiving rather than just having the rabbit taken away.

 

Next time you get a rabbit get the dog to stay by you whilst holding the rabbit make a fuss of the dog when its staying by you with the rabbit and make it feel that being around you whilst holding the rabbit can be fun and that the fun doesnt stop. Once the dog gets used to this, take the rabbit off the dog, hold it for a few seconds so that you have owned the rabbit, then put it back in the dogs mouth and carry on the excercise.

 

Imo this is not an issue of you not doing enough retreiving work or that the dogs just wont retreive. It is an issue of trust. The rabbit means a lot gor your dog because its had to work for it. The dog thinks that its not going to get anything out of retreiving because youre just going to take it away. The above excercise should change this.

 

All the best,

 

Sam

[Catcher 1 639]

Its a matter of trial and error bud.If its trying to eat flesh i would go back to the dummy and start on short retrieves.

[rickonthehunt 4]

[rickonthehunt 4]

good topic

[broonball 38]

Thanks lads all comments appreciated and glad no one has killed the thread by takin the piss. Sam I think ur point of trust is very relevant I'v been thinkin along those lines. I will definitely try what you've suggested.catcher 1 I think now that, she is eating it so that I can't take it from her, as she is not bothered so much when I have shot a rabbit or even when it is cold. Atm she is not catching for me but herself. Thanks lads. Keep the suggestions coming people as I think others will gain from this thread too. Cheers

[Terrier Sam 297]

No probs mate. Its worth a try! Sorry to babble on too Im not as experienced as some but id like to think i understand animals fairly well and have learnt from some good gundog trainers that i have around me. Whatever i can pass on i will!

 

I was told of another way to get around this issue which is to hold the pups bowl while it eats and the same for bones and chews. It gives the message that youre there to help, and that the pup doesnt need to be wary of you. It basically reinforces the same message as the thing with the rabbit. I was told that its better to start this one from a little pup but it may still be worth giving a go because shes only 10 months.

 

ATB

 

Sam

[broonball 38]

Mate babble away. I'm fresh as a daisy and hav a sponge in my head. Everyting suggested makes sense and is now stored away! Cheers

[Guest scramble]

I do think its in her mate, I think atm catchin a rabbit is rare so she gets caught up in the moment.iv had her out there with 'her cow' and she played fetch for a bit. In the house I can just send her for 'ya cow' and she will go and find it. I just want her to be perfect and there is no such thing. Tbh its only because our friend jake said to me a coupla months ago 'you'll never get her to retrieve' lol. Gota prove him wrong! Cheers mate

 

Give her time, she dont need to prove to your mate she can retrieve as long as she makes you happy.

 

SCRAMBLE

[broonball 38]

Happy as a pig in clover mate! The dogs is my pride and joy. Just from the suggestions on here she has improved tonight! I'll put in the effort with her and she will come good. Proving something to my mate is just the icing! Cheers mate

[tsteve9999 456]

Keep at it mate, my dogs 3 now and I've tried everything I can to get a retrieve out of him,

He will pick up and bring it within 10 yards or so then I have to go to him, but yesterday I shot a pigeon while on a mooch and he presented it straight to hand, I was over the moon but I'm sure when we start lamping again it will be back to his old ways. The only thing I've done different in the last few weeks is buy him a squeaky toy and play with him a lot with that, he'll retrieve it in the house quite well.

My lamping permissions don't have big numbers of rabbits and I think the fact that we dont catch a lot has a big influence, it means the dog is always hyper excited when he catches, it can't help with retrieving.

[bird 9,862]

It's great if your dog retrieves, and a well trained dog is a pleasure to own; but don't beat yourself up if yours won't retrieve There are the odd dogs that simply won't do it, no matter what ! I have a seven year old bitch here who is great all round, but will she retrieve ? Will she hell ! LOL ! My other bitch, the Deer X is a natural retriever, with little or no training ! You'll get years of pleasure from your dog wether it retrieves or not

 

Cheers.

 

spot on, what x is it some with lot of running i dog in them, can be harder than others x.Most of mine all have brought back (colliexs, bullxs, ) but had bitch 95% whippetxgrey + touch collie didnt want to know. Most lurchers its not natural to bring back, just to chase+ kill is . If it was my dog, i would stop retrieve training as you know it will do the dummy+ ball work, go back recall training day+ night, and get this 100% . When you go out and it getts a rabbit day or night, call once then walk off so the dog dont see you. If it dont bring forget the rabbit, when it (does) come to praise it. Then go back where the rabbit was , and make it stay then go back to where you called the dog and call in , as long as it comes in to you that all you can aks.As above some lurcher (wont) bring back, as long as catching you got some sport .

Bryn 1x collie grey

[broonball 38]

She's a mixture of collie,bull, grey, sal, whip. I think that sams comment about trust was the thing mate, I'm just the fun police in her eyes, she would probably fetch a rabbit to you lol! Time and more training. Her recall is average, majority of the time its good but she does have her moments. Iv decided on my plan of action, walk then work, I had her retrieving her toy last night playing t.o.w. Next rabbit she gets I'm guna craft a dummy, mite even just go get one wi the ferret or gun.cheers

[Casso 1,261]

My pup is 10months. I'll hold me hands up here and say I havnt put the work in retrieving as I thought it would come naturally. She retrieves in the house, garden and field to a point. When she gets a rabbit tho its away to eat it!!! If we're out she will retrieve a ball until she gets a scent. Just wanted any tips on teaching an older pup to retrieve? I got purdys progress the other day and its a bit depressin to be honest as I feel like I'v done it all wrong. Any advice on what people have done to correct the problem please. Also iv been thinking, once I can get out wi the ferrets a bit more she might see more than one rabbit at a time so this might help too. Cheers

Get the pup coming into your space bud, no corrections of any sort even for things like jumping up or actions which make you aggressive or threatening , if a dog feels threatened he reverts to instinct which is safety first, looking after number 1 which isn't forming a group mind with the two of you,

 

pack instincts is not the way forward with a sensitive dog like a lurcher , instincts are fear based, you dont need to be seen as the alpha to get the best out of a dog, it just instills fear which is untrainable,

i would work on the relationship, ive been flogging the hand feeding idea on here for a while because when you think about it a dog is in its most vulnerable state when eating , it creates an invisible barrier around itself, a certain space which others are not allowed in during feeding its instinctive,fear,

 

what we want as owners is for the dog to be at ease with us in that space, what that does is that it overcomes that instinctive fear, less pack and more group feeling, what im saying is the less threatening we feel to the dog the more interaction the dog feels he can give us ,

 

tug play is great , letting the dog win , keep him on a long lead to start with, play let him win, dont force him but encourage him back into your space with him prized hard fought to win toy,

play again letting him win every time, thats the key, he is bringing an item he has expanded a lot of energy to get, back to you, now think how lamping works its the same principle bud,

hand feed , tug play , no corrections, less pack more group, encourage verbally while playing, all these things help to form a group mind, best of luck with the pup,

[hutch6 550]

Lots of great advice on here for you and two things stand out the most so I'll try and get them in order as they do contain a lot of reason behind the behaviour - running away with high value item (rabbit) and using a rag toy to train.

 

I have taught plenty of different breeds of dog to retrieve but my saluki cross has by far been the hardest but I adjusted my methods accordingly and found what worked, here's what I went through.

 

If you grade items into a scale of value with a dog it gives you a better understanding of why certain behaviours occur. Hold that thought for just a minute.

 

When pups play together the best game they have is a game of "I've got what you want so chase me and see if you can get it". This sole game is the reason why you can put two pups in a room of one thousand toys and chews yet they will only want to play with just one between them - a toy or a chew is pretty boring after a minute or so.

This behaviour carries on into the pups adult life if it is not channelled correctly and can be seen when a dog takes an item and the owner proceeds to run after the dog to get the item back - game on.

Only when we teach the dog a different but more enjoyable game does the keep game turn into the retrieve game.

 

Out an about in a field with sticks and clumps of uprooted grass and these had the highest value, try it, pick up a stick and watch the dog go into game mode - rigid, fixed eyes, ready to burst into full speed and it may even try to get the stick from you straight away. It's just a stick, nothing more nothing less to us but to the dog it is the best and most exciting thing in the field (apart from you of course). You throw the stick, the dog chases, picks it up and then runs off with it - I have what you had now chase me for it. IF you turn your back and ignore the dog then the game rules instantly change - What do I have to do to engage you in a game? So the dog comes to you after a while and sees why you aren’t playing. Instantly you throw another stick. The dog belts after it picks it up and waits. You turn around and ignore the dog but the dog realised that when you did that last time the button it needed to press to get you involved again was to go near you so it comes over, maybe with stick in its mouth. You ask the dog to drop or take the stick in your hand, it won't let go so you show it the stick you had waiting in your other hand, now it wants that one because you are excited about that stick - adding value. It drops the one it has and you immediately throw the other one. The dog now slowly realises that the way to engage you in the game is to bring the stick to you as you play tug of war for a bit or you throw another one. You now have the retrieve game sussed and so does the dog.

 

A mistake folk make is when they get the object off of the dog to begin with they hold on to it for ages and ask the dog to sit, lie down or just tease the dog for ages with it which teaches the dog that if they bring it back then they don't get to be in possession of it for a while and therefore will delay in bringing it straight to you. The trick to a fast retrieve is to use tow toys - one thrown and one kept in hand. As soon as you have the dog's toy in your hand immediately throw the other one and recycle the toys like this over and over as the dogs learns the quicker it gets the object back to you the quicker it gets to chase the other one, and all dogs loves chasing.

 

Change the object. If you have been using solely tennis balls swap to a tennis ball and a little rag toy (a colourful piece of rope with lose ends) and when the dog retrieves the rag toy have a game of tug of war for a bit. This reinforces to the dog that bringing stuff back to you is the key for another enjoyable activity. OK so you don’t want shredded bunny when your dog finally brings one back to you so you start by playing tug of war every time the rag toy comes back until the dog is fully racing to get back to you. Now you only play for 10secs before throwing an object again. After a few occurrence you drop the tug of war game to every other retrieve, then every third, fourth, fifth, sixth and then no tug of war. When you are taking the rag toy off of your dog to end the tug of war relax your arm and ask the dog to drop. Wait. Eventually the dog will drop and then it gets rewarded with the throwing of the other toy immediately afterwards. As you diminish the tug of war games on the times where no game is to take place take hold of the rag toy and ask the dog to drop - you don't want the dog to drop a live rabbit only for it to run off again.

 

Now here is where I tried everything to stop her buggering off with the rabbit fur dummies until I broke it all down and came up with the following.

I put the dog on a long line (15m) so I still had control of her. I'd throw the rabbit fur dummy about 5m away and she'd charge it down, pick it up and then I'd lock the lead down so she could only come to me if she wanted slack lead. She wouldn't come at first so a gentle pressure on the lead towards me and she slowly made her way back to me. I took the dummy in one hand, asked her to drop and when she did I produced the rag toy from my pocket and allowed her to grab it have a game of tug of war with me for a bit. I'd ask her to drop the rag toy and then toss the dummy 5m away again. This time I only had to crouch down for her to come back. I held the dummy, asked her to drop and when she did I had a game of tug of war. Instantly I had given more value to the rag toy that the rabbit fur dummy which she initially fecked off with because the rag toy was more fun - she was wound up and in a high state of arousal when she had the fur dummy and she wanted to rip it and eat it but allowing her to take her desire out on the rag toy and with me encouraging and joining in it lifted the rag toy value far higher than the fur dummy value. From then on she would bring the dummy back, release it intact into my hand and then wait to engage in a game of tug of war. After a while I could take the dummy and then throw it before a tug of war game and she wouldn’t break it or harm it because of the association between the two toys - dummy for bringing back and rag toy for tug of war.

She caught her first rabbit (See other post) and brought it straight back to hand without any issues or errors.

 

Here are some videos I took of her 2nd training session doing ther retrieve and tug of war. She wouldn't even chase in the first session so I had to run around like a loon for a while to engage her etc

 

 

[skycat 6,173]

Excellent post and vid there: its all about having fun together.