Seeking advice

[Moll. 1,770]

 

OMG, i really dont know what to say 'Thank you, thank you' this is such an unexpected surprise.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Moll.

[paulus 26]

 

OMG, i really dont know what to say 'Thank you, thank you' this is such an unexpected surprise.

speach,speach

[Moll. 1,770]

 

OMG, i really dont know what to say 'Thank you, thank you' this is such an unexpected surprise.

speach,speach

 

I am so overcome i really don't know where to start

 

 

 

Firstly thank you to Paulus for nominating and presenting me with this magnificent trophy

 

To the people who have supported me though the years enabling me to dedicate my life and literacy to this forum.

 

To past and present hunting forum wafflers, too many to mention personally, whom without their guidance and teachings i would not be the waffler i am now, i am still humbled in your presence

 

To my dear old Mam for giving birth to me, and imparting all her knowledge i know she will be thrilled beyond belief.

 

To my dogs for always sitting patiently by my side, legs crossed, hoping i would eventually tear myself away from the forum and get them outside twice a week, their patience knowing this is a path i have had to follow and dedicate my life too has been humbling.

 

And finally to spell checker, thank you for making me look almost intelligent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will i have to return the award next year or can i keep it

[paulus 26]

 

OMG, i really dont know what to say 'Thank you, thank you' this is such an unexpected surprise.

speach,speach

 

I am so overcome i really don't know where to start

 

 

 

Firstly thank you to Paulus for nominating and presenting me with this magnificent trophy

 

To the people who have supported me though the years enabling me to dedicate my life and literacy to this forum.

 

To past and present hunting forum wafflers, too many to mention personally, whom without their guidance and teachings i would not be the waffler i am now, i am still humbled in your presence

 

To my dear old Mam for giving birth to me, and imparting all her knowledge i know she will be thrilled beyond belief.

 

To my dogs for always sitting patiently by my side, legs crossed, hoping i would eventually tear myself away from the forum and get them outside twice a week, their patience knowing this is a path i have had to follow and dedicate my life too has been humbling.

 

And finally to spell checker, thank you for making me look almost intelligent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will i have to return the award next year or can i keep it

that ones a keeper and im in tears, very touching

[Millet 4,497]

Idiot's...

[Moll. 1,770]

 

Will i have to return the award next year or can i keep it

that ones a keeper and im in tears, very touching

 

Superb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ebay here i come

[Born Hunter 17,763]

It'll be interesting to see how successfull such a dog is as a lurcher seeing as it is required to be so steady. How commited would such a 'lurcher' be?

[paulus 26]

It'll be interesting to see how successfull such a dog is as a lurcher seeing as it is required to be so steady. How commited would such a 'lurcher' be?

got an old dog here that works as the man described, hes just as commited as any other lurcher as others on here will testify to

[Born Hunter 17,763]

It'll be interesting to see how successfull such a dog is as a lurcher seeing as it is required to be so steady. How commited would such a 'lurcher' be?

got an old dog here that works as the man described, hes just as commited as any other lurcher as others on here will testify to

 

The only bit that got me thinking was stopping on command. I assume by that wyeman means stop mid course? If not then I think many well trained lurchers would meet his standard. Mine sure as hell wouldn't though! LOL.

[wyeman 1,136]

I joined this site seeking information and advice and I have received considerable, considered and thoughful replies, thank you. Playing Devil's advocat for a moment, I appreciate the difference in power and possibly, the reliance of sight between a Lurcher against an E.S. Spaniel but if I can stop a Spaniel at full charge, that has just put a Pheasant or rabbit up, off the end of his nose, by use of a whistle then why could it possibly be so different with a Lurcher? Surely conditioning mentally, a dog, will be very much the same for both breeds, so long as intelligence and biddability are on a par? Or am I off the mark?

 

On the subject of choosing the most appropriate breeding, it seems the concensus is that a Collie Greyhound cross would be most suitable. Herein lies the first problem; with working Gundog breeds, the pedigree remains an important factor when choosing a particular Dog for breeding from or when selecting a puppy/adult dog. The breeding of Lurchers is carried out on a more informal basis and it appears you are solely reliant, depending how knowledgable and streetwise you are, on the integrity and honesty of the breeder. How do I overcome this problem?

[morton 5,368]

I joined this site seeking information and advice and I have received considerable, considered and thoughful replies, thank you. Playing Devil's advocat for a moment, I appreciate the difference in power and possibly, the reliance of sight between a Lurcher against an E.S. Spaniel but if I can stop a Spaniel at full charge, that has just put a Pheasant or rabbit up, off the end of his nose, by use of a whistle then why could it possibly be so different with a Lurcher? Surely conditioning mentally, a dog, will be very much the same for both breeds, so long as intelligence and biddability are on a par? Or am I off the mark?

 

On the subject of choosing the most appropriate breeding, it seems the concensus is that a Collie Greyhound cross would be most suitable. Herein lies the first problem; with working Gundog breeds, the pedigree remains an important factor when choosing a particular Dog for breeding from or when selecting a puppy/adult dog. The breeding of Lurchers is carried out on a more informal basis and it appears you are solely reliant, depending how knowledgable and streetwise you are, on the integrity and honesty of the breeder. How do I overcome this problem?

If you put your spaniel training ability,with a few tweeks,into a lurcher i think you may be pleasantly surprised with the outcome,a word of warning,you can be harder on a spaniel, a Collie bred lurcher benefits from a more sensitive approach.The breeding side and the owners is a little more complicated,on the whole the majority of owners and breeders have only the dog and pups interest at heart,there are plenty of unscrupulous people out there,but they are not the norm,insist on seeing the parents at work,talk to the owners and trust your judgement.

[haymin 2,465]

 

OMG, i really dont know what to say 'Thank you, thank you' this is such an unexpected surprise.

speach,speach

 

I am so overcome i really don't know where to start

 

 

 

Firstly thank you to Paulus for nominating and presenting me with this magnificent trophy

 

To the people who have supported me though the years enabling me to dedicate my life and literacy to this forum.

 

To past and present hunting forum wafflers, too many to mention personally, whom without their guidance and teachings i would not be the waffler i am now, i am still humbled in your presence

 

To my dear old Mam for giving birth to me, and imparting all her knowledge i know she will be thrilled beyond belief.

 

To my dogs for always sitting patiently by my side, legs crossed, hoping i would eventually tear myself away from the forum and get them outside twice a week, their patience knowing this is a path i have had to follow and dedicate my life too has been humbling.

 

And finally to spell checker, thank you for making me look almost intelligent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will i have to return the award next year or can i keep it

that ones a keeper and im in tears, very touching

class lol

[haymin 2,465]

Just to add, one of the most productive places was a golf course. It had a lot of small patches of trees, the mongrel would go in with the lurcher waiting on the breakaways. Amazing how many patches of these trees held rabbits without a Warren in them.

it's so good to see you to sharing memorys with out falling out now the world is a better place )

[birddog 1,354]

I joined this site seeking information and advice and I have received considerable, considered and thoughful replies, thank you. Playing Devil's advocat for a moment, I appreciate the difference in power and possibly, the reliance of sight between a Lurcher against an E.S. Spaniel but if I can stop a Spaniel at full charge, that has just put a Pheasant or rabbit up, off the end of his nose, by use of a whistle then why could it possibly be so different with a Lurcher? Surely conditioning mentally, a dog, will be very much the same for both breeds, so long as intelligence and biddability are on a par? Or am I off the mark?

 

On the subject of choosing the most appropriate breeding, it seems the concensus is that a Collie Greyhound cross would be most suitable. Herein lies the first problem; with working Gundog breeds, the pedigree remains an important factor when choosing a particular Dog for breeding from or when selecting a puppy/adult dog. The breeding of Lurchers is carried out on a more informal basis and it appears you are solely reliant, depending how knowledgable and streetwise you are, on the integrity and honesty of the breeder. How do I overcome this problem?

we need more guys like you in the lurcher world, i have a collie x that works cover well, takes hand signals, retrieves to the gun and sits when she flushes deer, not to everyones taste but i'm not going to risk losing lamping and ferreting permission on keepered ground by using an unruly dog, she has a strong prey drive but it's not rocket science to encourage some behaviour on some game and different behaviour on others, you can with a bit of work even alter the prey species on different ground / permission ie she knows on certain places certain species are out of bounds, she'll take a few strides realise where she is then stop. there are guys on this site whose dogs are rock steady to sheep yet take feral goats.many sleep with pet cats at home yet are mustard on feral cats. as for breeders again not for everyone (primarily because he's labelled a puppy farmer) but hancocks dogs do what they say on the tin, you'll get exactly what you want there bred from known parents, perhaps not themselves proven in the working sense but proven from the breeding and background / working lines sense

[Casso 1,261]

My only concern for you would be prey drive in certain types of lurcher. Will you want the dog to wait for a command before chasing and/or the ability to stop it if it did chase.

I have no doubt with correct training it can be done with some lurchers, but i also have no doubt it cannot with others.

 

A good point made, I would require the dog to stop and return on command. What would be the overall contributing factor to obtain this level of control, choice of breed, trainability etc or would prey drive in some dogs completely negate any training ?

The main difference with the drives between gun dogs and running dogs is that the gun dog can still hold the handler in its term of reference while working much the same as a sheep dog will with its Shepard in as much as it can be completely in drive and still take instruction, its drive does not collapse when making connection with prey in whatever form that may take, which is where we find some cases where a running dog goes completely deaf to instruction having caught something, it has no reference to its owner in that state of mind

 

Its that 3 way connect that is so important in the equation, Dog ,handler, prey, with gundogs , with lurchers its mostly, handler ,dog , prey,

 

for a running dog most of the time its in drive its running away from its owner and completely focused on its prey item (unlike a gun dog who can be completely in drive walking beside you while looking into your face for instruction), it tunes out its handler at that point, it can be worked on however from a young age to take instruction while in drive but it must be done before its entered to quarry of any type, trained through drive in other words,

 

the main problem in the lurcher world is that a lot of dogs are trained through treats and praise which dont activate that drive state of mind which is the mindset we are trying to control, it equates to bribing a running dogs to forsake chasing a bunny for a piece of cheese or a pat on the head and told "good boy" it just dont add up for the dog

 

say a prey item is worth 10,000 feelgood points to the mutt, and a treat or pat on the head is worth 2,000 points the dogs quickly does the maths and heads off into the distance after its quarry,

in other words most running dogs are controlled in drive by the prey item not its handler, its the potential for drive that controls the dog bred to take instruction gun dogs sheepdogs and protection dogs all of which are controlled by the handler,

 

for all dogs bred to take instruction its ability to stay in drive facilitated by its owner who has the possibility for more potential energy by instruction is what makes then listen to commands, its the potential energy the could be in the next instruction thats what keeps them focused, in order words the commands given must make the dog feel if he listens to instruction something great will follow,

what it comes down to in running dogs terms is if we try to call a dog off chasing a rabbit, our instructions given must equate to coming back to us as the chance to catch an easier rabbit or a better prey item , the instruction must equate to huge doggy feelgood points and not praise or treats or not domineering threats,

 

the dog must feel that taking commands can lead to really exciting things potentially happening, a bird in the hand is not worth two in the bush to the canine mind, a gun dog is forever an optimist and believe's his owner is the key is huge potential energy happening, so even when he grasps a prey item he is still focused on the next potential prey item through which his only avenue is his owner ,

 

so without a shadow of a doubt look for a first cross running dog who one of its parents have been bred solely to take instruction from man in whatever form that took,

also try training through drive , which makes a dog listen to commands while in a drive mindset, best of luck,

Edited June 12, 2012 by Casso