Campaign to keep Scotland in the union starts today

[Malt 379]

How does this work..............Do Scottish taxes stay in Scotland at the moment or is it a Nationwide thing? What i mean is if we were to go independent then we wouldn't be shelling out for all the folk out of work in England, Wales and NI or any off these immigrants? Is that correct?

 

Pretty much lab, but then again we are heavily subsidised from the rest of the UK....

Instead, you'll be paying for the financial, moral and common sense vortex that is Brussels.

The EU is fcuked no matter which way you paint it, and that tit wants us to abandon ship and hop aboard a burning vessel...... I seriously think people like wee eck need removing from society as the only thing he's worried about is going down in history.

If we do go independent, he will get his wish - he'll go down in the history books as the fat c*nt who fcuked an entire country on a whim.

Right so its the involvement with the EU that everyone hates rather than being Independant? Would we be able to sustain ourselves if we solely stayed on our own?

 

Honestly? I seriously doubt it. Apart from oil, there's tourism, stalking, and whisky

Yes he fails to mention that we would be sold down the river, probably ending up like Greece, Spain or Ireland at some point, relying on bailouts from Brussels.

 

He's often been quoted in the past likening Scotland to Ireland during the Celtic Tiger years and claiming that Scotland could do the same by itself. In case he hasn't noticed, that period left Ireland sorely in the shit...

[scothunter 12,609]

Dunno if we could or couldn't tbh. No one can answer that.

However he is playing a dangerous game. I know the wee fat pie likes a gamble, but this time he is dealing with a whole f*****g nations future. My own opinion Abd from what I see read , won't happen thankfully most scots would rather be happy with what we have already why risk it, for some f*****g idiots ego. The eu is imploding and he wants to join it lol

[Lab 10,979]

How much of what mate?

Our income is less than our outgoings. So therefore we get money from Westminster to make up the shortfall.

Put it another way per head we in Scotland spend 11.5k as opposed to the rest of uk at 10.5k.

But like I said they don't include the oil in those figures.

You said we spend 60 Billion a year....is that invested into Scotland or is some of it spread across the UK. I suppose what i'm saying is if we were Indepedant and all the money stayed in Scotland what money would we spend then?

[PlasticJock 539]

How does this work..............Do Scottish taxes stay in Scotland at the moment or is it a Nationwide thing? What i mean is if we were to go independent then we wouldn't be shelling out for all the folk out of work in England, Wales and NI or any off these immigrants? Is that correct?

 

Pretty much lab, but then again we are heavily subsidised from the rest of the UK....

Instead, you'll be paying for the financial, moral and common sense vortex that is Brussels.

The EU is fcuked no matter which way you paint it, and that tit wants us to abandon ship and hop aboard a burning vessel...... I seriously think people like wee eck need removing from society as the only thing he's worried about is going down in history.

If we do go independent, he will get his wish - he'll go down in the history books as the fat c*nt who fcuked an entire country on a whim.

Right so its the involvement with the EU that everyone hates rather than being Independant? Would we be able to sustain ourselves if we solely stayed on our own?

 

Honestly? I seriously doubt it. Apart from oil, there's tourism, stalking, and whisky

Yes he fails to mention that we would be sold down the river, probably ending up like Greece, Spain or Ireland at some point, relying on bailouts from Brussels.

 

He's often been quoted in the past likening Scotland to Ireland during the Celtic Tiger years and claiming that Scotland could do the same by itself. In case he hasn't noticed, that period left Ireland sorely in the shit...

 

You'd think we'd be at the point in our evolution where we could learn lessons from past misguided endeavours, be it seems not.

Saw him on the telly last night, surprise surprise he was surrounded by 19 year old student types who no doubt felt like they were part of something big...

[scothunter 12,609]

Just goes into the treasury mate, And the cash is divided up where its needed. That's why you get councils wasting cash at end of year. Cause of they don't use thier yearly budget, they get less the following year.

As for who's cash would we spend if we went it alone. Hmmm prob Germany's mate lol

[PlasticJock 539]

Scot, I think this points to the obvious fact that the illuminati are behind it... They want to excavate Roslyn Chapel because the Holy Grail's buried underneath

[twobob 1,497]

would the be border controls and would all the scots that work in england/english that work in scotland have to aply for work permits?

[Guest Moscow]

would the be border controls and would all the scots that work in england/english that work in scotland have to aply for work permits?

 

I hope not, it could make things awkward for nipping across the border for a run or two

[tandors 888]

Ok so if Scotland goes independent do England get back land that was theirs including English founded Edinburgh lol? If Scots actually think they have got a worse deal in this union than the English then they're deluded. Oh and what happens to all the ethnic English and Norse who make up vast amounts of Scotland population in the lowlands? Don't get me wrong I like the union but think each country should operate themselves no Scots mps voting on English matter etc.

[Caib 49]

I think it will make every 1 of the home countries weaker and easier prey for the EU

[WILF 46,549]

Keep the jocks in.......you can never have enough fat ugly people !!! Lol

[cammy12 176]

once the oil and gas runs out we can sell the south east some water to top there dwindling water supplies up if its not already being pumped south for free.

[Joe67 239]

hope to see independance in my life time

 

am no expert,i dont wanna go on,piss people off but people keep saying scotland couldnt surive etc,its a load of shite.heres a good read..at the end of the day we all have our own opinions.we all will get a chance to have our say and vote..no claymore swords,blue facepaint etc

 

As a civil servant in London, and being part of the establishment, I always accepted the general view that an independent Scotland would not be able to survive on its own without financial help from the London Exchequer.

 

However, when in 1968 I was able to examine the so-called "books" for the first time, I was shocked to find that the position was exactly the opposite and that Scotland contributed much more to the UK economy than its other partners. This was, of course, before the oil boom.

I realised that the Treasury would wish to keep this a secret, as it might feed nationalistic tendencies north of the border, which at that time were very weak. I took the decision to keep an eye on the situation to see how long it would take for the true facts to emerge, which I felt would only be a short time. However, the Treasury and the Establishment did an excellent job, aided and abetted by the media, to keep the myth about Scotland alive.

 

In fact it took another 30 years before the first chink in their armour started to appear. This came unexpectedly on 13 January 1997 when, in reply to a series of questions put by SNP Leader in the Commons, Alex Salmond MP to the then Tory government, Treasury Minister William Waldegrave admitted that Scotland had paid a massive £27 billion more to the London Exchequer than it had received since the Tories came to power in 1979. Statistically this works out at £5,400 for every Scot.

 

There were no attempts to refute these figures, which caused much embarrassment to the Tory Government of the day. However, the facts were quickly covered up by the Unionist controlled media.

 

Then a year later with a Labour government now in power came a further bombshell. Following further promptings by the SNP, on 21 August 1998, Mr Salmond received a letter from the House of Commons Library (ref. 98/8/56 EP/rjt) which gave a table showing that based on Scotland's GDP per capita, Scotland would occupy 7th place in the world's wealth league. The UK was at 17th Place.

 

When the Labour government came to power it announced a 1p cut in the standard rate of income tax. From my detailed knowledge of income tax, I felt that this was the worst possible thing that they could do, as extra monies would be needed following on from the Thatcher era, if they were to fulfil even a fraction of their promises to the electorate. I came to the conclusion, and I still feel that I was right, that this was done by Labour to prove to the voters of Middle England that they could match the Tories in tax cuts.

 

Despite the disclosures of 1998, attempts to deceive the Scottish electorate did not end there. In March 1999 a Labour Party leaflet appeared which said that if the SNP were to forego Gordon Brown's 1p cut in the standard rate of income tax, every family in Scotland would be £250 worse off. This became the major topic of a TV debate between Alex Salmond and Donald Dewar. Salmond tried to point out to Dewar that he was using the wrong figures. Watching the debate, I saw Dewar's eyes roll in his head for a few moments but he carried on regardless.

 

After the debate it took the Labour Party a whole week to admit that they were wrong. There was in fact a whole chain of errors which the Labour Party tried to blame on "printing mistakes". However Labour could not deny the fact that in their calculations the UK average figure, which included the high wage earners in the city of London and the booming economy in the South East corner of England (which if I may say so were the result of the selfish policies of Mrs Margaret Thatcher), the figure used was almost double those of the average Scottish wage which at that time stood at £17,000 per year.

 

Looking closely at the figures and taking the year 2006 as a benchmark, I found that Scotland had an annual relative surplus of £2,8 billion, which works out at £560 for every man, woman and child. In contrast the UK had a deficit of £34.8 billion.

 

In November 2006, the U.N. published its annual "Human Development Index". For the sixth year running, oil rich Norway topped the list, and won on such factors as generous welfare payments, education, high income and a long life expectancy. Norway wisely created an "oil fund" in 1995 which in 5 years reached a total of £250 billion, so that Norway sailed through the Credit Crunch.

 

Who are the real subsidy junkies?

 

Any lingering doubt that Scotland more than pays its way, or survives on subsidies, was dispelled by a new report published in October 2007. Whilst the Daily Mail, which by no stretch of the imagination could be described as a supporter of Scottish nationalism, devoted a whole page to the analysis of the report which was based on tax paid per capita as against spending, Northern Ireland received £4,212 more than it paid in tax, North East England £3,133, Wales £2,990, N.W. England £1732, South West England £978, West Midlands £931, East Midlands £185 and lastly Scotland £38. Only the South East corner produced a small surplus due to tax paid on the high wages within the city of London at this time (pre-Credit Crunch).

 

Analysis

 

It is no longer refuted that Scotland exports more per capita than the rest of the UK. In 1968 when I first discovered that Scotland was in surplus in relation to the rest of the UK, its exports could be broken down into whisky, meat, timber, fish, and of course tourism which is a huge hidden income. Those exports are supported by a population of only 5,000,000 as against 45,000,000 for the rest of the UK, quite a substantial advantage.

With the oil boom, Scotland's economy was transformed. Scottish oil has to date funded the Treasury with £300 billion, which has pushed Scotland up from 7th place in World Wealth rankings, had it been in control of its own resources, to 3rd place.

 

On 29 May 2008, Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling admitted in a back-handed way, that Scotland's oil revenue had been underwriting the UK's failure to balance its books for decades. There is still 30 years of oil supply left in the North Sea (some 150 million barrels) valued at 2008 prices at 1 trillion dollars. This excludes the new fields being brought into production in deeper waters west of Shetland.

 

Meantime whisky exports, which I listed in 1968 as one of Scotland's top assets, have risen at a phenomenal rate. For example, whisky exports to China amounted to £1 million in 2000/2001, by 2007 they had risen to £70 million. They have continued to rise, although I don't have more recent statistics.

 

On the economies of Independence, Scotland has also 18 times its requirements in North Sea gas, which on current trading is more expensive than oil. The country exports 24% of its surplus electricity south of the Border, with much of the back-up by Hydro Electric unused.

Even if nuclear is excluded, the future looks bright, the new Glen Doe hydro station on Loch Ness which was opened by Scotland's First Minister last year can produce enough electricity for 240,000 homes. Further projects down the Loch which have now reached the planning stage will increase this to over 1,000,000 homes. Wind and wave energy will also contribute significantly in the future.

 

No doubt as the time draws nearer to the referendum on Scottish Independence, politicians will do their best to distort the figures, but the truth is something that never varies.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

The great misadventure that is the EU doomed the Germans are the only winners , the British GOVERMENT kept its gunpowder. Dry and never joined the euro , when the euro implodes and the Germans call it a day the will be left holding billions of bonds that the rest will be paying back for decades , yes we trade with euroupe allways have allways will , India china Australia newzeland and the USA are still vibrant trading partners the dock in Liverpool is full of landrover product going were china India USA , Toyota north east of England exports were Japan India china USA , fighter jets to Saudi and other middle east. States while we tie our selve in with Poland Romania and the rest of the arse holes of the world GET OUT OF EUROUPE ASAP NEVER MIND A VOTE ON THE UNION DEMAND A REFORENDUM EUROPE

[cammy12 176]

hope to see independance in my life time

 

am no expert,i dont wanna go on,piss people off but people keep saying scotland couldnt surive etc,its a load of shite.heres a good read..at the end of the day we all have our own opinions.we all will get a chance to have our say and vote..no claymore swords,blue facepaint etc

 

As a civil servant in London, and being part of the establishment, I always accepted the general view that an independent Scotland would not be able to survive on its own without financial help from the London Exchequer.

 

However, when in 1968 I was able to examine the so-called "books" for the first time, I was shocked to find that the position was exactly the opposite and that Scotland contributed much more to the UK economy than its other partners. This was, of course, before the oil boom.

I realised that the Treasury would wish to keep this a secret, as it might feed nationalistic tendencies north of the border, which at that time were very weak. I took the decision to keep an eye on the situation to see how long it would take for the true facts to emerge, which I felt would only be a short time. However, the Treasury and the Establishment did an excellent job, aided and abetted by the media, to keep the myth about Scotland alive.

 

In fact it took another 30 years before the first chink in their armour started to appear. This came unexpectedly on 13 January 1997 when, in reply to a series of questions put by SNP Leader in the Commons, Alex Salmond MP to the then Tory government, Treasury Minister William Waldegrave admitted that Scotland had paid a massive £27 billion more to the London Exchequer than it had received since the Tories came to power in 1979. Statistically this works out at £5,400 for every Scot.

 

There were no attempts to refute these figures, which caused much embarrassment to the Tory Government of the day. However, the facts were quickly covered up by the Unionist controlled media.

 

Then a year later with a Labour government now in power came a further bombshell. Following further promptings by the SNP, on 21 August 1998, Mr Salmond received a letter from the House of Commons Library (ref. 98/8/56 EP/rjt) which gave a table showing that based on Scotland's GDP per capita, Scotland would occupy 7th place in the world's wealth league. The UK was at 17th Place.

 

When the Labour government came to power it announced a 1p cut in the standard rate of income tax. From my detailed knowledge of income tax, I felt that this was the worst possible thing that they could do, as extra monies would be needed following on from the Thatcher era, if they were to fulfil even a fraction of their promises to the electorate. I came to the conclusion, and I still feel that I was right, that this was done by Labour to prove to the voters of Middle England that they could match the Tories in tax cuts.

 

Despite the disclosures of 1998, attempts to deceive the Scottish electorate did not end there. In March 1999 a Labour Party leaflet appeared which said that if the SNP were to forego Gordon Brown's 1p cut in the standard rate of income tax, every family in Scotland would be £250 worse off. This became the major topic of a TV debate between Alex Salmond and Donald Dewar. Salmond tried to point out to Dewar that he was using the wrong figures. Watching the debate, I saw Dewar's eyes roll in his head for a few moments but he carried on regardless.

 

After the debate it took the Labour Party a whole week to admit that they were wrong. There was in fact a whole chain of errors which the Labour Party tried to blame on "printing mistakes". However Labour could not deny the fact that in their calculations the UK average figure, which included the high wage earners in the city of London and the booming economy in the South East corner of England (which if I may say so were the result of the selfish policies of Mrs Margaret Thatcher), the figure used was almost double those of the average Scottish wage which at that time stood at £17,000 per year.

 

Looking closely at the figures and taking the year 2006 as a benchmark, I found that Scotland had an annual relative surplus of £2,8 billion, which works out at £560 for every man, woman and child. In contrast the UK had a deficit of £34.8 billion.

 

In November 2006, the U.N. published its annual "Human Development Index". For the sixth year running, oil rich Norway topped the list, and won on such factors as generous welfare payments, education, high income and a long life expectancy. Norway wisely created an "oil fund" in 1995 which in 5 years reached a total of £250 billion, so that Norway sailed through the Credit Crunch.

 

Who are the real subsidy junkies?

 

Any lingering doubt that Scotland more than pays its way, or survives on subsidies, was dispelled by a new report published in October 2007. Whilst the Daily Mail, which by no stretch of the imagination could be described as a supporter of Scottish nationalism, devoted a whole page to the analysis of the report which was based on tax paid per capita as against spending, Northern Ireland received £4,212 more than it paid in tax, North East England £3,133, Wales £2,990, N.W. England £1732, South West England £978, West Midlands £931, East Midlands £185 and lastly Scotland £38. Only the South East corner produced a small surplus due to tax paid on the high wages within the city of London at this time (pre-Credit Crunch).

 

Analysis

 

It is no longer refuted that Scotland exports more per capita than the rest of the UK. In 1968 when I first discovered that Scotland was in surplus in relation to the rest of the UK, its exports could be broken down into whisky, meat, timber, fish, and of course tourism which is a huge hidden income. Those exports are supported by a population of only 5,000,000 as against 45,000,000 for the rest of the UK, quite a substantial advantage.

With the oil boom, Scotland's economy was transformed. Scottish oil has to date funded the Treasury with £300 billion, which has pushed Scotland up from 7th place in World Wealth rankings, had it been in control of its own resources, to 3rd place.

 

On 29 May 2008, Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling admitted in a back-handed way, that Scotland's oil revenue had been underwriting the UK's failure to balance its books for decades. There is still 30 years of oil supply left in the North Sea (some 150 million barrels) valued at 2008 prices at 1 trillion dollars. This excludes the new fields being brought into production in deeper waters west of Shetland.

 

Meantime whisky exports, which I listed in 1968 as one of Scotland's top assets, have risen at a phenomenal rate. For example, whisky exports to China amounted to £1 million in 2000/2001, by 2007 they had risen to £70 million. They have continued to rise, although I don't have more recent statistics.

 

On the economies of Independence, Scotland has also 18 times its requirements in North Sea gas, which on current trading is more expensive than oil. The country exports 24% of its surplus electricity south of the Border, with much of the back-up by Hydro Electric unused.

Even if nuclear is excluded, the future looks bright, the new Glen Doe hydro station on Loch Ness which was opened by Scotland's First Minister last year can produce enough electricity for 240,000 homes. Further projects down the Loch which have now reached the planning stage will increase this to over 1,000,000 homes. Wind and wave energy will also contribute significantly in the future.

 

No doubt as the time draws nearer to the referendum on Scottish Independence, politicians will do their best to distort the figures, but the truth is something that never varies.

you should keep them quiet with that for a bit good read