UEFA Euro 2012

[gnasher16 30,454]

f*****g excellent post gnasher :clapper: I did a bit of leg pulling during englands time there but I won't now. I know what it's like supporting a poor team. You guys did well with what you had. Football is in decline on these shores and I can't see that changing in my lifetime. I was watching the Germans the other day and I soon realized how poor football is in general now. We applaud a team for stringing more than 6 passes together. Even the great brazil are losing their flare. They have turned all European in their play. Football is Definately on the decline worldwide. Just our shores are leading the downward trend.

 

I cant agree with that Baw.....i dont think the game is in decline i think its stronger than it ever has been throughout history i think Utd,City,Chelsea,etc are far better sides dometically than the strong Liverpool side of the 70,s and ,s......i think the Germans are a better side than they have ever been......right down to individuals id say Messi/Ronaldo are better players in their era than Pele/Beckenbaur etc were in their times........The Brazil side of years gone by were competing at a time when skill was the deciding factor 9 times out of 10......today the game is so much faster requiring so much more fitness and mental toughness individual skill today is just not enough.............

I dont think our shores are leading the downward trend i just think the world has caught up with and has now overtaken us the proof is their that the game is more popular than ever,well in England anyway..............Without sounding a dick i think theres the same gap between England and Scotland as their is between Germany and England just because we are not in the same league as the Germans dont mean we,re in the same league as the Scots everything has its levels England are in the top 8 sides in Europe at this moment thats fact......20 years ago we were probably top 2 or 3 whos to say in another 20 years we wont be again................sport doesnt stand still its constantly moving,personally i have no complaints whatsoever about this tournament we did pretty much as well as i expected the only disappointment for me was losing like losers instead of losing like winners....but thats the nature of a Roy Hodgson side and thats what we bought into when we appointed him manager.......no complaints.

Edited June 26, 2012 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,454]

I'm well aware of what you're saying, I'm also a realist...

 

 

There we go i knew it was coming.....those famous words " IM A REALIST "........................................

 

I must have had this conversation 20 times with 20 different people over the last few weeks........if your a realist then why pretend to be a football supporter !!!

I support one of the shittiest most crappiest football clubs in the English Premier League...........I know they,re crap,you know they,re crap..................but if you think im going to stand by and let someone tell me my clubs shit you got another thing coming......thats because im A SUPPORTER.....thats what you do when you SUPPORT a club you stand up for it and dont let other people bad mouth and rubbish it..... even when you know they,re right !!........Your not a supporter Jasper not of England or Man Utd....your just a viewer nothing more nothing less you watch football and your judgement is based on what you see you have no real allegiance to anything you are typical of the wishy washy England " fans " who shout when we win but stand for nothing when we lose.......you think you know more about football and footballers than Roy Hodgson ? what have you achieved in the game to have a better understanding of Wayne Rooney than SIR Alex Ferguson or Roy Hodgson ?.........Im sorry if i sound impolite i dont mean to be im just sick of hearing this shit everyone wants to " vent their spleen " as you say and make out like it should be a piece of cake,its people like you with your unrealistic expectations and lack of support and loyalty to something you dont really even seem to particularly like very much only when we,re winning and it suits you.....that gets right up my f****n nose !

Edited June 26, 2012 by gnasher16

[baw 4,360]

Maybe they weren't better gnash back then but the brazil team of old had you on the edge of your seat. Football was more sexy back then, more dazzling, more exciting. It's definitely changed and not for the better in my view. It maybe to do with saturation on t.v. Like everything else on it, we expect better. I know players are fitter and more technically advanced etc, but you'd struggle to get a team together with the current scots and English players combined who'd beat Celtic's Lisbon Lions.

[gnasher16 30,454]

Sport evolves Baw.....Pele or George Best as they was then wouldnt last 5 minutes in the premier league today,does that mean they wasnt some of the greatest players ever to play the game of course it doesnt it simply means the game has become just as much about speed/strength/discipline as it is about sexy football..............ive been watching football since the 70,s and i can honestly say hand on heart i enjoy the game today more than ever for excitement......i cant play the game for toffee never could but i believe i have a decent understanding of competetive sport to know that the way it was in the so called " good ol days " is rarely a match for how it is in todays times in any sport.....hence why when comparing todays times to yesterdays you just have to keep it realistic.....Celtic,s Lisbon Lions would probably be beaten by Leicester City in todays times..........doesnt mean they wasnt a great side of their era.

Roger Bannister was the greatest middle distance runner of his generation.....today he wouldnt even qualify for the final......time stands still for no man

[Lab 10,979]

Sport evolves Baw.....Pele or George Best as they was then wouldnt last 5 minutes in the premier league today,does that mean they wasnt some of the greatest players ever to play the game of course it doesnt it simply means the game has become just as much about speed/strength/discipline as it is about sexy football..............ive been watching football since the 70,s and i can honestly say hand on heart i enjoy the game today more than ever for excitement......i cant play the game for toffee never could but i believe i have a decent understanding of competetive sport to know that the way it was in the so called " good ol days " is rarely a match for how it is in todays times in any sport.....hence why when comparing todays times to yesterdays you just have to keep it realistic.....Celtic,s Lisbon Lions would probably be beaten by Leicester City in todays times..........doesnt mean they wasnt a great side of their era.

Roger Bannister was the greatest middle distance runner of his generation.....today he wouldnt even qualify for the final......time stands still for no man

FFS mate not like you to drop a clanger on a football thread but to do it twice... . There might be a change in footballing styles but the 2 players you just mentioned would be awesome in the EPL nowadays. Everyone doesn't need to be fast and skillful, yes you need those players but you also need play makers and goal scorers too.... Look at Spain...no wingers really, everything is played through the middle, one touch passing and its a joy to watch.

I dont want to harp on about the Lisbon Lions but they were a team and a half.....solid, hard tackling and most of all great goal scorers. Its an insult to say they couldn't hold there own against Leicester.......they'd hold there own against anyone...

[gnasher16 30,454]

I,ll bow down on the Lisbon Lions thing as id be talking about a side i have no real knowledge of.......the simple point i was trying to make being the nature of competetive sport dictates very few athletes/teams from " yesterday " would beat their equivalents today.........in any sport.......that doesnt stop them being greats of their era.

 

As regards Best/Pele....................Both these great players would of spent more time in the physios room than on the pitch.......Pele never played in the Spanish or Italian leagues club level so never witnessed tough tackling on a week to week basis......Likewise George Best never competed at world level in International football but did at club level....my belief is neither man was physically durable enough to consistently produce great football in todays game........players like Messi or even Maradona are/were strong physical specimens capable of grace/speed/skill......but also had physical presence.......Ronaldo being a great example for me he is one of the most complete footballers ive ever seen.

No not every player needs those qualities but i think in any conversation about the worlds all time great players these are the type of players that will always come to mind.......i mean i think Julian Dicks was better than all of them but he wouldnt be on the tip of many folks tongues

Edited June 26, 2012 by gnasher16

[Malt 379]

I'm always of the opinion that you can't fairly judge great players from different eras up against each other. The sport has evolved in many, many different ways such as sports science, nutrition, exercise & training regimes, etc. Who's to say someone like Georgie Best would be just as good as people like Messi and Ronaldo? He wasn't exactly known for putting the hard work in away from the pitch, and to maintain the high standards we have come to expect, he'd need too..

 

It's the same when people say that players used to be tougher. The way I look at it is that today's players are like highly tuned and modified sports cars. The more tuning goes into a car the better it's performance gets, but at the same time it becomes easier to damage and harder to maintain..

[Lab 10,979]

I,ll bow down on the Lisbon Lions thing as id be talking about a side i have no real knowledge of.......the simple point i was trying to make being the nature of competetive sport dictates very few athletes/teams from " yesterday " would beat their equivalents today.........in any sport.......that doesnt stop them being greats of their era.

 

As regards Best/Pele....................Both these great players would of spent more time in the physios room than on the pitch.......Pele never played in the Spanish or Italian leagues club level so never witnessed tough tackling on a week to week basis......Likewise George Best never competed at world level in International football but did at club level....my belief is neither man was physically durable enough to consistently produce great football in todays game........players like Messi or even Maradona are/were strong physical specimens capable of grace/speed/skill......but also had physical presence.......Ronaldo being a great example for me he is one of the most complete footballers ive ever seen.

No not every player needs those qualities but i think in any conversation about the worlds all time great players these are the type of players that will always come to mind.......i mean i think Julian Dicks was better than all of them but he wouldnt be on the tip of many folks tongues

Never heard of Julian Dicks.....................was he a footballer?.. :angel:

I think your point about athletes getting better is a very good point but i dont think that can be carried over to football as its a team sport and not an individual one. George Best never played lots of International football because he was from NI, if he was English he would have played loads. Pele i cant really speak about that much as i never even seen him play but i do think listening to others he wasn't to bad a football player.......

I also think the best player in the EPL is Drogba by a country mile at the minute....if he'd just stop rolling around like a little pansy i think he would get a lot more respect. Ronaldo was the same for a few seasons.....lying on the floor more than he was on his feet.

[gnasher16 30,454]

I'm always of the opinion that you can't fairly judge great players from different eras up against each other. The sport has evolved in many, many different ways such as sports science, nutrition, exercise & training regimes, etc. Who's to say someone like Georgie Best would be just as good as people like Messi and Ronaldo? He wasn't exactly known for putting the hard work in away from the pitch, and to maintain the high standards we have come to expect, he'd need too..

 

It's the same when people say that players used to be tougher. The way I look at it is that today's players are like highly tuned and modified sports cars. The more tuning goes into a car the better it's performance gets, but at the same time it becomes easier to damage and harder to maintain..

 

Perfectly put Malt i totally agree .....we know even from our dogs.....a highly tuned super conditioned dog is quite a delicate little athlete.....a big lazy v8 engine is bullet proof,start f****n with the finer tuning and theres more to go wrong.........highly tuned athletes bodies are not robust......do you sacrifice reliability for performance,you just cant do it in todays top level sport.

Edited June 26, 2012 by gnasher16

[jasper65 6]

There we go i knew it was coming.....those famous words " IM A REALIST "........................................

 

I must have had this conversation 20 times with 20 different people over the last few weeks........if your a realist then why pretend to be a football supporter !!!

I support one of the shittiest most crappiest football clubs in the English Premier League...........I know they,re crap,you know they,re crap..................but if you think im going to stand by and let someone tell me my clubs shit you got another thing coming......thats because im A SUPPORTER.....thats what you do when you SUPPORT a club you stand up for it and dont let other people bad mouth and rubbish it..... even when you know they,re right !!........Your not a supporter Jasper not of England or Man Utd....your just a viewer nothing more nothing less you watch football and your judgement is based on what you see you have no real allegiance to anything you are typical of the wishy washy England " fans " who shout when we win but stand for nothing when we lose.......you think you know more about football and footballers than Roy Hodgson ? what have you achieved in the game to have a better understanding of Wayne Rooney than SIR Alex Ferguson or Roy Hodgson ?.........Im sorry if i sound impolite i dont mean to be im just sick of hearing this shit everyone wants to " vent their spleen " as you say and make out like it should be a piece of cake,its people like you with your unrealistic expectations and lack of support and loyalty to something you dont really even seem to particularly like very much only when we,re winning and it suits you.....that gets right up my f****n nose !

 

FFS take a breath Gnash ...

 

think I need to bow out now to your knowledge in the ethics of Football, My heads sore as f**k now

[stewie 3,387]

f*****g excellent post gnasher :clapper: I did a bit of leg pulling during englands time there but I won't now. I know what it's like supporting a poor team. You guys did well with what you had. Football is in decline on these shores and I can't see that changing in my lifetime. I was watching the Germans the other day and I soon realized how poor football is in general now. We applaud a team for stringing more than 6 passes together. Even the great brazil are losing their flare. They have turned all European in their play. Football is Definately on the decline worldwide. Just our shores are leading the downward trend.

lol yea brazil are shit... if they dont win the next world cup ill eat my hat...

[stewie 3,387]

There we go i knew it was coming.....those famous words " IM A REALIST "........................................

 

I must have had this conversation 20 times with 20 different people over the last few weeks........if your a realist then why pretend to be a football supporter !!!

I support one of the shittiest most crappiest football clubs in the English Premier League...........I know they,re crap,you know they,re crap..................but if you think im going to stand by and let someone tell me my clubs shit you got another thing coming......thats because im A SUPPORTER.....thats what you do when you SUPPORT a club you stand up for it and dont let other people bad mouth and rubbish it..... even when you know they,re right !!........Your not a supporter Jasper not of England or Man Utd....your just a viewer nothing more nothing less you watch football and your judgement is based on what you see you have no real allegiance to anything you are typical of the wishy washy England " fans " who shout when we win but stand for nothing when we lose.......you think you know more about football and footballers than Roy Hodgson ? what have you achieved in the game to have a better understanding of Wayne Rooney than SIR Alex Ferguson or Roy Hodgson ?.........Im sorry if i sound impolite i dont mean to be im just sick of hearing this shit everyone wants to " vent their spleen " as you say and make out like it should be a piece of cake,its people like you with your unrealistic expectations and lack of support and loyalty to something you dont really even seem to particularly like very much only when we,re winning and it suits you.....that gets right up my f****n nose !

 

FFS take a breath Gnash ...

 

think I need to bow out now to your knowledge in the ethics of Football, My heads sore as f**k now

well he has a point so come on jasper tell us all what you know about football that roy hodgson dont...

[gnasher16 30,454]

I,ll bow down on the Lisbon Lions thing as id be talking about a side i have no real knowledge of.......the simple point i was trying to make being the nature of competetive sport dictates very few athletes/teams from " yesterday " would beat their equivalents today.........in any sport.......that doesnt stop them being greats of their era.

 

As regards Best/Pele....................Both these great players would of spent more time in the physios room than on the pitch.......Pele never played in the Spanish or Italian leagues club level so never witnessed tough tackling on a week to week basis......Likewise George Best never competed at world level in International football but did at club level....my belief is neither man was physically durable enough to consistently produce great football in todays game........players like Messi or even Maradona are/were strong physical specimens capable of grace/speed/skill......but also had physical presence.......Ronaldo being a great example for me he is one of the most complete footballers ive ever seen.

No not every player needs those qualities but i think in any conversation about the worlds all time great players these are the type of players that will always come to mind.......i mean i think Julian Dicks was better than all of them but he wouldnt be on the tip of many folks tongues

Never heard of Julian Dicks.....................was he a footballer?.. :angel:

I think your point about athletes getting better is a very good point but i dont think that can be carried over to football as its a team sport and not an individual one. George Best never played lots of International football because he was from NI, if he was English he would have played loads. Pele i cant really speak about that much as i never even seen him play but i do think listening to others he wasn't to bad a football player.......

I also think the best player in the EPL is Drogba by a country mile at the minute....if he'd just stop rolling around like a little pansy i think he would get a lot more respect. Ronaldo was the same for a few seasons.....lying on the floor more than he was on his feet.

 

Never heard of Julian Dicks.....thats a crime,the greatest left back never to play for England......twice as good as Pearce and 3 times as hard !!......but the fa bottled it because of his reputation...........one of the cleanest strikers of a football you could ever wish to see......id love to of seen him in a penalty shoot out for England !!!!!......................Lionel Messi.....pffffff !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zWjqUBf9z4

Edited June 26, 2012 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,454]

FFS take a breath Gnash ...

 

think I need to bow out now to your knowledge in the ethics of Football, My heads sore as f**k now

 

Nothing to do with ethics of football its to do with basic common sense....both as a supporter ( which you are not ).......and as a manager of footballers ( which again you are not )....................yet you seem to have all the answers from your armchair !

[stewie 3,387]

FFS take a breath Gnash ...

 

think I need to bow out now to your knowledge in the ethics of Football, My heads sore as f**k now

 

Nothing to do with ethics of football its to do with basic common sense....both as a supporter ( which you are not ).......and as a manager of footballers ( which again you are not )....................yet you seem to have all the answers from your armchair !

:laugh: