RUINATION OF LURCHERS

[Penda 3,341]

I agree with you Wirral ive always been taught worker to worker and breed best to best if the dog or dogs do the job obviously not one season dogs i mean dogs that have earned the right to be bred off,i show my dogs time to time never win much but atleast i can hold me head up and say i work my dogs its just a crack the end of the day more of a social event then anything else unfortunatley because of the change of times i.e the ban i think alot of people who used to show there hardend working dogs dont really bother anymore this is why alot of these "SHOW PONIES" have apeared

[KittleRox 2,147]

Still reckon there,s always been good dogs, mediocre dogs and pish dogs, way of the world, and still don,t think having shows in the summer has affected this to any great degree

I think you are missing the point mate,this is not a dig at shows but a comment on those that breed just for showing and chasing plastic bags,you have to physically test your stock hard to find those worthy of breeding from or you will eventually end up with a very poor version of what a lurcher should be,how many litters off lads that have just started out with their first dogs that are only 2-3yr old do you see advertised on here and others like it,a lurcher worked hard for 6-7yrs that has consistantly caught,stayed fit,level temperament,can jump and go through wire without damage, stamina and gears,field craft, good around the family and house,well thats worth breeding from and thats the kind of dog that will line my bitch when the time comes not some second rate pretender and it certainly will not have any bull in it.I think those that frequent shows for the right reasons,meeting people and socialising,having a laugh with mates old and new are there for the right reasons and will accept a judges opinion, but those people that get out brushes and start pampering them and come just to win without so much as a scar or hard muscle are there for all the wrong reasons,there are as many ladies in the ring these days as men but there is no sign of them in the field where it counts,I am not having a go at women in general as I know there are some that get out in the field but this is not crufts,if you want a show dog buy a pedigree and let those that work them have a bit of fun like the shows we used to have,after all its only one mans opinion on the day so why whinge and gripe, but I do feel the judges have some responsibility for picking working dogs above obvious non-workers,WM

don,t think I am missing the point mate, you state in your first post " I blame most of it on lurcher and terrier shows becoming popular " when referring to the demise of the modern lurcher, I,m sorry but I don,t think there has been a demise overall, I,m not sure there has been an improvement but I reckon some may think so, especialy the fans of saluki types as there weren,t many about 20/30 yrs ago,

I also find your bull comment a bit slating, maybe not your type but many folk do like them, I myself ain,t that keen on very bully types but I do think a wee dash brings something to the mix, atb

[woodys mum 5]

I still remember the old lurcher/terrier shows back in the eighties, when it was an interlude in the summer for working dogs to have something to do and for people to meet up and chat and compare notes etc, it was also mainly small events little local clubs that held these shows for small profits and the social interaction.

Now it seems to be hijacked by the big country fairs, that charge extortinate prices to attend, then you still have to pay for your dog to be shown etc, I think the demise of these small freindly meets has put more emphasis on the showy type of lurchers,and a different type of people geting involved other than the working dog clan, Lurchers are seen as the country dog to own, and so use the shows as a platform to show of their dogs and look the part.

Its a shame more local clubs dont go back to basics and bring back the good old fashioned working lurcher and terrier shows, charge resaonble prices, and get true lurcher/terrier working men to judge the events and it might ressurect some old fashioned standards once again.

[boyo 1,398]

theres plenty of people working lurchers that wouldnt know a good looking one or one with good confirmation and ide love for someone on here to tell or show me how they can tell a worker from a non worker if they dont know the dog or its owner , to start with .

[Cleanspade 3,323]

WM. i can remember back a fair way. and the lurchers i remember that where class in the fields where generally first or second. crossbreds and a few crossed /crossbreds. the beauty of the lurcher is it is one of those things that can be created. lost and then if necessary recreated . there was a good percentage of rubbish about in the old days. if you ever bought a dog from the exchange and mart you would know this

 

shows are just for showing. WORKING TERRIER SHOW. (CONTRADICTION IN TERMS) the give away in the sentence is the last word. ' anything ending in show is for showing

 

i came away from judging many years ago. but i'm going to get back in the saddle. as there are some very nice working types being overlooked these days.

chin up wm. its not all bad.

[2.8 guy 403]

I think the true workers and best dogs are past between friends, my mate had a good dog and i bid him double what he was asking to make sure i got one, having said this one of my best dogs refused to run after a broken toe, i had it filleted she was back to normal must have bin causing her some serious pain

[ands 547]

theres plenty of people working lurchers that wouldnt know a good looking one or one with good confirmation and ide love for someone on here to tell or show me how they can tell a worker from a non worker if they dont know the dog or its owner , to start with .

I,m sure a hard working lurcher like a hard working man would bear the scars to show he,s "been there"

[Maximus Ferret 2,063]

theres plenty of people working lurchers that wouldnt know a good looking one or one with good confirmation and ide love for someone on here to tell or show me how they can tell a worker from a non worker if they dont know the dog or its owner , to start with .

I,m sure a hard working lurcher like a hard working man would bear the scars to show he,s "been there"

 

If we leave aside foxing, which isn't traditionally a lurchers work anyway, then many hard working dogs get through life with few or no scars and some useless dogs could skin themselves going through a farm gate.

Feet are the same. Some dogs reach old age with almost perfect looking feet while others have feet full of crocked and let up toes before they're four.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Kittlerox,20-30yrs and as far back as the 70's saluki crosses were very popular in the merseyside area due to it being a hotbed for coursing at the time,I coursed down south where there were many saluki coursing clubs,certain crosses can get very popular in regions and due to the fact there was no internet or weekly journal to buy nationally at that time not many knew of how good certain crosses could be for some species of hunting.I remember going to a show in Exeter as recent 1987 with a 3/4 bred collie greyhound and nobody knew what it was,he caused quite a stir on the day as the entire lurcher schedule was filled with saluki crosses and mine stood out like a sore thumb,Scotland used to be deerhound crosses and the midlands went over to collie crosses when plummer/hancock collaborated to invent fairy tales about "merle" and nowadays everyone is obsessed with Bullcrosses,as regards my comment on bulls being harsh,well thats just my opinion as I cannot see what they can bring that was not already there,they are smooth coated and show every mark,they have a high percentage of litter wastage,too heavy,poor feet,their joints wear out very fast causing arthritus,there are loads in my area at present and I've been out with quite a few and never seen one do well either lamping or daytime,I understand you will get the odd decent one as the crosses get nearer to the greyhound but there are too many pups that are too heavy to be of any real use in the field,I have just read about 14 pages on the thread about "GOLLY" bull crosses and nobody picked up the fact he died with major back and joint problems,surely not a good starting point for breeding a decent lurcher,this is the kind of weakening of the gene pool I talked about with this thread,atb,WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Boyo,I understand what you're saying about judging shows and you can only go on what you see on the day,if a dog comes in the ring with a man that looks to be working it and it has obvious signs of being well run thats all we can do,thats why the local shows judged by local lads were better as most lads knew who worked their dogs and who never,local knowledge was the key to getting it right and when all the winners of these local shows went to the final at the last gamefairs of the year you were pretty much assured that the winner would be a worked dog,now there are lads and lasses that just follow the shows and live for the summer show scene,atb,WM

[nothernlite 18,089]

Kittlerox,20-30yrs and as far back as the 70's saluki crosses were very popular in the merseyside area due to it being a hotbed for coursing at the time,I coursed down south where there were many saluki coursing clubs,certain crosses can get very popular in regions and due to the fact there was no internet or weekly journal to buy nationally at that time not many knew of how good certain crosses could be for some species of hunting.I remember going to a show in Exeter as recent 1987 with a 3/4 bred collie greyhound and nobody knew what it was,he caused quite a stir on the day as the entire lurcher schedule was filled with saluki crosses and mine stood out like a sore thumb,Scotland used to be deerhound crosses and the midlands went over to collie crosses when plummer/hancock collaborated to invent fairy tales about "merle" and nowadays everyone is obsessed with Bullcrosses,as regards my comment on bulls being harsh,well thats just my opinion as I cannot see what they can bring that was not already there,they are smooth coated and show every mark,they have a high percentage of litter wastage,too heavy,poor feet,their joints wear out very fast causing arthritus,there are loads in my area at present and I've been out with quite a few and never seen one do well either lamping or daytime,I understand you will get the odd decent one as the crosses get nearer to the greyhound but there are too many pups that are too heavy to be of any real use in the field,I have just read about 14 pages on the thread about "GOLLY" bull crosses and nobody picked up the fact he died with major back and joint problems,surely not a good starting point for breeding a decent lurcher,this is the kind of weakening of the gene pool I talked about with this thread,atb,WM

well said first dog was a three quater collie x and that was in the early 70s think the internet has alot to do with the ruination of it boys with there bullxs and photos

[BLACKWATER... 157]

having had the pleasure to see a few good lurchers bred a few , working lurchers are still about but a show for , a diffrent type of person , same with racing , the qaulities i look for in a hunting coursing dog , a show or a straight race has nothing to offer, its abit of fun for most but some take it serous but neither are real lurchers ,when i skip over a fence dogs over hees scanning the feilds sees the game chase is on , hees useing his head useng the angles , qaurries under pressure he is caut or gone , lamp or daytime ,if youve hunted since small and its in your blood a show is a day out ,but miles away from the real world of working dogs and should never be confused ,and same with the men who do it ,i would travel the earth to see runing dogs catch game but a race well , in a strait line proves nothing ,show proves nothing , apart from a fun day out with fellow dohg lovers but not to be confused with hunters coursers , diffrent ball game im afraid

[Neal 1,873]

To a certain extent you can understand why some will say that as the ownership of lurchers and their subsequent role have changed so their breeding should reflect this...

 

however, I'd personally argue that just because a collie can be the ultimate canid when it comes to flyball, agility, canicross, obedience, heelwork to music, gundog work, deer tracking etc etc this DOESN'T mean that such dogs shold be bred from unless they can also do a bloody good job of herding sheep and cattle. Surely the same should be true of lurchers too.

 

Apologies for any spilling mostakes but I'm holding my five week old daughter in one arm and trying to type with the otherrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[BLACKWATER... 157]

neal its not changed for alot of peole just went back to the drakonain days , if youve bred kept lurchers worked coursed good qaulitie dogs yu no what makes agood dog not fly ball etc sheep herding hunting in the feild catching game is theonly measure

[dai dogs 1,523]

theres a lot of so called lurcher lads breeding just for the sake of ££ not putting any thought into what they are doing.

using the nearest stud they can find breeding out of young untested dogs which produces low quality performing offspring.

the offspring soon get passed or sold on and the whole process starts all over again and again.

but in the eyes of the these lads they think they are breeding the ultimate and will not be told any different.

hence so many poor quality curs ..