RUINATION OF LURCHERS

[gibbo1973 187]

the last lurcher and terrier show i attended was a local one not far from where i live and i was suprised how many lurchers never looked like a working dog

ie soft muscling long nails the list goes on and the terrier section was a laugh as not one terriers looked like it was spananble to work an earth

its just beggers belief its called a WORKING LURCHER ,LONGDOG AND TERRIER SHOW ?????????????????

[sowhat 1,572]

A letter i wrote to the shooting times 30 years ago.

 

Had the same sort of comments fired at me over the years when judging, I used to think to myself, you won't be winning this one, and if they continued to give me verbal I would tell them to fook off

[Sirius 1,391]

There is no way you can judge a show as a working dog show, as we should all know that a worker can only be judged in its field of work.

Work wise it needs to be seen with your own eyes not what the person on the end of lead tells you it done at a show as they bring it into the ring :laugh: Missing teeth, scars and foot injuries dont mean the dogs and a good worker thats for sure.

 

Maybe showst should be seen as a oppotunity to catch up with a few folk now and again

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sirius

[asanley 1,009]

..WCM ,I see your point but I think it,s maybe a glass half empty view of things, there have always been , and always will be a percentage of people who value looks in a dog above all else , but more importantly there will always be those who put working ability first , as long as there are people out there who work thier dogs , then it follows that there will be dogs bred from workers ,

[bird 9,862]

There is no way you can judge a show as a working dog show, as we should all know that a worker can only be judged in its field of work.

Work wise it needs to be seen with your own eyes not what the person on the end of lead tells you it done at a show as they bring it into the ring :laugh: Missing teeth, scars and foot injuries dont mean the dogs and a good worker thats for sure.

 

Maybe showst should be seen as a oppotunity to catch up with a few folk now and again

 

fair point mate regards the social side of it, and if you to choose to put your dog in the ring its just bit of fun (or should be ) . When ever i put Bryn in the ring he never did any good , because he is the old type of looking lurcher, not over racey looking what alot of judges seem to go for,he just looks a mongrel collie lol. But he as caught loads of rabbits where ever ive taken him, very good rabbit dog day+night. Whats happened to the lurchers is the same with any type of dog that gets popular, more people have them. Not all pups from the same litter will all be top workers, you always get some better than others, thats nature, same if you like with dogs bred for very high standard (pits, coursing dogs) not all will be as good as there parents fact. just enjoy the dog when you out with it (show or work)

[Bosun11 537]

During the last couple of days there have been many posts on breeding off lurchers that have either jacked or had injuries early in their life and it got me thinking about the general demise and quality of todays pups,I blame most of it on lurcher and terrier shows becoming too popular,these shows started in the 70's by the likes of the Fell and moorland,etc,were first put on as a bit of summer fun and for fundraising,charities,etc,but were soon taken over as a mainstream event for profit,the first shows were only attended by well worked dogs and were judged by good dog men (as it should be) but as time has gone by we have been taken over by untested,unworked lurchers kept in runs never seeing a field from one week to the next,these dogs that have won shows have now been bred off for over 30yrs producing a very poor gene pool,chasing a plastic bag round a few bends is in no way a test of a dog and yet people are buying dogs from this type and in some cases there are waiting lists for them,there are still some good lurchers being bred to the old standards but they are now in the minority,what next ?? pedigree lurchers LOL's

This is one for the older lads to pass comment on,atb,WM

 

I don't go much to shows but I can't agree with you at all about this. First I don't see that the standard of working lurchers has fallen much. I've kept lurchers for almost 40 years and the standard has always been variable. There have always been poor workers and it's always been necessary to look around a bit to find a good working litter.

Secondly, people who want good working lurchers won't book a pup from a non working, show bred litter anyway (unless they're a bit thick).

If working dog people only buy their pups from working litters the show craze will have no effect at all. There are still good workers being bred. Fen dogs for coursing, lamp strains for lamping etc. Take your choice.

Buy well and train and enter well.

 

Although I see your point totaly WM, i'd have to agree with Maximus here... Because the bottom line is, time moves on, we can and do dwell in the past and always look to the good 'ol days but we are never going to change things, its natural progression. As Max says, there are good and bad out there, always has been but lets be honest, only a few out there who genuinely breed best to best.

As for the show scene, well, point the finger at me too... I've judged a few and if asked, will continue too. Why, because I belive in the clubs that run 'em, belive in contributing to the funds that help support them or the charitys and rescues they support. I also fully belive that the showing of dogs should be a light hearted event and taken in the spirit it is meant. Yep, I'll never deny that ten ton of shite is bred out of show stuff but should that mean that the Chirk, the Wien Foxhounds, the Merseyside or other fantastic clubs up and down this country should stop holding shows..? No, that should never happen BUT all clubs must ensure they choose the right man for the job of judging and that each and everyone who attends and owns a 'real' working animal gets that dog in the ring to be judged. Push the show ponys out...!!

There are clubs up and down this country that hold damn good shows, make sure we know who they are and attend these before all others...

[chartpolski 23,108]

WCM, a good post, and I agree with what you say, except for the fact tht shows were going long before the 70's... I used to go to shows held in pub carparks, and yes, they were 100% working Lurchers and men.

 

I can now see the Lurcher going in three directions; the"Show Lurcher", bred only for looks, the "Racing Lurcher", bred only for speed, and the "Working Lurcher", bred by genuine people to do what Lurchers were intended for !!! It's becoming increasingly harder to find the latter, but they are still being bred !!

 

Cheers.

[ci5 9]

I couldnt believe how hard it was to find a genuine breeder of lurchers, most of them weren't even keeping a pup and wanted silly money, not to mention talked rubbish about the breeding.

Now working whippets...dont get me started on this. The amount of people that have jumped on that band waggon the last 10 years.....its not about the money though....ask anybody on the whippet forum they'll tell you that, thats if they can take time away from their whelping bitches.

lol,they churn out a few pups on there,just reading a thread on here where one of them stuck his whippet over a little jack russel.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

There have been some great replies and I will try to answer

them the best I can and I thank you for keeping it civil,

Maximus,Kittlerox and Asanley,I hear your point as we do all like a looker but not at the cost of losing working ability,the problems that will arise from breeding off inferior stock is already out there for all to see,how many posts do you see on here of injuries to feet,tendons,paper thin skin,yapping slow dogs,etc,they are commonplace,you may say that some are just unlucky but ask the older lads that have bred worker to worker off dogs that don't get knocked up or blown,take my bitch,she is worked everyday in some capacity and is run on all kinds of terrain,woods,fields,she came off a matchdog bitch to a good allround dog that were both 8yr old and had been heavilly worked,she has never been injured apart from the odd cut or limp for a day or two,this bitch is typical of most of my dogs in the last 40yrs that have all been off workers,over the course of a season I take a lot of lads out lamping,ferreting,bushing etc,most are either starting off or have not got any permission of their own so I see a vast range of different crosses and most do not last a week without major injuries or are poor examples of a lurcher(having bought without any prior knowledge of the breeds).You cannot put quality where there is none,a running dog needs plenty of excercise and work and if its left in a run all week and took out on a sunday for the odd run then it simply cannot perform to its potential,these same dogs have won major shows and plastic bag chasing rosettes,cups,etc and have been bred for just this reason but they have no fieldcraft or class were it counts,one lad waited on a list to buy off a proven show and lure chaser winner !!!! most go away with their tail between their legs when their show dog is half a field behind or yapping like a goodun,so no it must be proven worker/worker all the way for me and to keep that quality gene pool where it counts,WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Chartpolski,Chalkwarren and DEL,your posts are spot on and right to the point,I think we already have the 3 classes of lurcher you talk about and the terrier scene is no better off,the reduction in our quarry hunting species will only serve to weaken our chosen breed types due to not stretching their abilities in the field,atb,WM

[dytkos 17,783]

we all know the truth - £

 

That and people breeding and buying with no idea, experience or knowledge of "decent" lurchers.

Seen many a so called "good" dog that I wouldn't give kennel room to and my standards are pretty low

 

:laugh:

 

Cheers, D.

Edited May 10, 2012 by dytkos

[morton 5,368]

The early shows were attended,on the whole,by like minded lurcher and terriermen/women,working ability was never questioned because at that time there was little other reason to own such a dog.It started creeping into the terrier shows and was soon followed by the lurchers,an element of breeders put beauty before function and because there was a ready market for winning dogs,sold at a premium price,the working side became of lesser importance,even to some so called respected breeders of working type stock.The internet further helped to add to the influx of poor breeding,so many people now think unless a dog comes out of some supposed superior breeding kennel,it cannot possibly be of use in the field,others have little interest in the dogs working ability as they will only own a dog that looks a certain way stood on a street corner.There are still people about that breed for work first and foremost,the lads that put the time and effort in will find and utilise them,the ones that look to the shows and computer for an easy option are usually the ones that will fall by the wayside and move on to another passing fad.Shows should be a non serious day out,meet old friends,make new,have a beer and help a worthwhile cause,if it becomes more than that,then its time to take stock and move on.

[KittleRox 2,147]

Still reckon there,s always been good dogs, mediocre dogs and pish dogs, way of the world, and still don,t think having shows in the summer has affected this to any great degree

[Daniel Baker 7]

Very well said, :victory: :victory: :victory: :victory:

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Still reckon there,s always been good dogs, mediocre dogs and pish dogs, way of the world, and still don,t think having shows in the summer has affected this to any great degree

I think you are missing the point mate,this is not a dig at shows but a comment on those that breed just for showing and chasing plastic bags,you have to physically test your stock hard to find those worthy of breeding from or you will eventually end up with a very poor version of what a lurcher should be,how many litters off lads that have just started out with their first dogs that are only 2-3yr old do you see advertised on here and others like it,a lurcher worked hard for 6-7yrs that has consistantly caught,stayed fit,level temperament,can jump and go through wire without damage, stamina and gears,field craft, good around the family and house,well thats worth breeding from and thats the kind of dog that will line my bitch when the time comes not some second rate pretender and it certainly will not have any bull in it.I think those that frequent shows for the right reasons,meeting people and socialising,having a laugh with mates old and new are there for the right reasons and will accept a judges opinion, but those people that get out brushes and start pampering them and come just to win without so much as a scar or hard muscle are there for all the wrong reasons,there are as many ladies in the ring these days as men but there is no sign of them in the field where it counts,I am not having a go at women in general as I know there are some that get out in the field but this is not crufts,if you want a show dog buy a pedigree and let those that work them have a bit of fun like the shows we used to have,after all its only one mans opinion on the day so why whinge and gripe, but I do feel the judges have some responsibility for picking working dogs above obvious non-workers,WM Edited May 11, 2012 by wirral countryman