Mentoring for FAC.

[PlasticJock 539]

But the referee forms state ''You are not guaranteeing the future conduct of the applicant'', so there's no way legally you could be prosecuted. If I crash can the DVLA be prosecuted for saying I'm ok to have a license???

The first chap I mentored just needed a report on his attitude towards and knowledge of shooting safety plus a bit of fac hunting experience. I wasn't a referee to attest to his character etc. Although IMO he was very sound.

 

And that's the way it should be

 

An impartial, objective view of the applicants firearms handling etc. If the police are that bothered (and they should be with new applicants who have zero experience), they should bring a firearms officer round with a deactivated rifle, and ask the applicant to talk them through loading/unloading, muzzle clearing, and answer a shedload of general questions on safety.

[logun 91]

But the referee forms state ''You are not guaranteeing the future conduct of the applicant'', so there's no way legally you could be prosecuted. If I crash can the DVLA be prosecuted for saying I'm ok to have a license???

The first chap I mentored just needed a report on his attitude towards and knowledge of shooting safety plus a bit of fac hunting experience. I wasn't a referee to attest to his character etc. Although IMO he was very sound.

 

And that's the way it should be

 

An impartial, objective view of the applicants firearms handling etc. If the police are that bothered (and they should be with new applicants who have zero experience), they should bring a firearms officer round with a deactivated rifle, and ask the applicant to talk them through loading/unloading, muzzle clearing, and answer a shedload of general questions on safety.

 

you real,?are you one of them health and safty people who only see things in your own tunnel,, muzzle cleaning ???? lol this got to be a wind up... the whole world gone h&s mad with out people on here adding to it.. think most people who apply for a fac have some knoledge of air rifles shot guns etc with out all this bull ,, its a gun,, just a gun,,, ok it can kill ,, but so can a axe,a knife,, a hammer, srewdriver and even the kitchen frying pan,,,,,,,,, its the word gun tho !! time to get real i think...

[Simonrees 45]

But the referee forms state ''You are not guaranteeing the future conduct of the applicant'', so there's no way legally you could be prosecuted. If I crash can the DVLA be prosecuted for saying I'm ok to have a license???

The first chap I mentored just needed a report on his attitude towards and knowledge of shooting safety plus a bit of fac hunting experience. I wasn't a referee to attest to his character etc. Although IMO he was very sound.

 

And that's the way it should be

 

An impartial, objective view of the applicants firearms handling etc. If the police are that bothered (and they should be with new applicants who have zero experience), they should bring a firearms officer round with a deactivated rifle, and ask the applicant to talk them through loading/unloading, muzzle clearing, and answer a shedload of general questions on safety.

 

you real,?are you one of them health and safty people who only see things in your own tunnel,, muzzle cleaning ???? lol this got to be a wind up... the whole world gone h&s mad with out people on here adding to it.. think most people who apply for a fac have some knoledge of air rifles shot guns etc with out all this bull ,, its a gun,, just a gun,,, ok it can kill ,, but so can a axe,a knife,, a hammer, srewdriver and even the kitchen frying pan,,,,,,,,, its the word gun tho !! time to get real i think...

 

The difference between guns and other the items you have listed is that to kill someone with one of them you need to make a concerted effort to hit them, with a gun, its all too easy for the untrained or non safety concious person to swing around with a loaded gun without a safety on, and bang, I've seen idiots climbing fences with a "Hot" shotgun, jumping ditches and placing fully loaded guns on the ground with dogs running around, guns leaning against trees, loaded without a safety on, the list continues. none of these people realised they were doing anything wrong! A small amount of training goes a long way. lets face it you can't even use a power tool at work these days without training. If H&S has a place its most certainly when handling Firearms.

[paulus 26]

But the referee forms state ''You are not guaranteeing the future conduct of the applicant'', so there's no way legally you could be prosecuted. If I crash can the DVLA be prosecuted for saying I'm ok to have a license???

The first chap I mentored just needed a report on his attitude towards and knowledge of shooting safety plus a bit of fac hunting experience. I wasn't a referee to attest to his character etc. Although IMO he was very sound.

 

And that's the way it should be

 

An impartial, objective view of the applicants firearms handling etc. If the police are that bothered (and they should be with new applicants who have zero experience), they should bring a firearms officer round with a deactivated rifle, and ask the applicant to talk them through loading/unloading, muzzle clearing, and answer a shedload of general questions on safety.

 

you real,?are you one of them health and safty people who only see things in your own tunnel,, muzzle cleaning ???? lol this got to be a wind up... the whole world gone h&s mad with out people on here adding to it.. think most people who apply for a fac have some knoledge of air rifles shot guns etc with out all this bull ,, its a gun,, just a gun,,, ok it can kill ,, but so can a axe,a knife,, a hammer, srewdriver and even the kitchen frying pan,,,,,,,,, its the word gun tho !! time to get real i think...

 

The difference between guns and other the items you have listed is that to kill someone with one of them you need to make a concerted effort to hit them, with a gun, its all too easy for the untrained or non safety concious person to swing around with a loaded gun without a safety on, and bang, I've seen idiots climbing fences with a "Hot" shotgun, jumping ditches and placing fully loaded guns on the ground with dogs running around, guns leaning against trees, loaded without a safety on, the list continues. none of these people realised they were doing anything wrong! A small amount of training goes a long way. lets face it you can't even use a power tool at work these days without training. If H&S has a place its most certainly when handling Firearms.

if i had witnessed any of what youve said. 1) a smack around the head would have quickly followed 2) i would never go near these people again. the smack around the works well as training by association is very quickly learnt.

[PlasticJock 539]

But the referee forms state ''You are not guaranteeing the future conduct of the applicant'', so there's no way legally you could be prosecuted. If I crash can the DVLA be prosecuted for saying I'm ok to have a license???

The first chap I mentored just needed a report on his attitude towards and knowledge of shooting safety plus a bit of fac hunting experience. I wasn't a referee to attest to his character etc. Although IMO he was very sound.

 

And that's the way it should be

 

An impartial, objective view of the applicants firearms handling etc. If the police are that bothered (and they should be with new applicants who have zero experience), they should bring a firearms officer round with a deactivated rifle, and ask the applicant to talk them through loading/unloading, muzzle clearing, and answer a shedload of general questions on safety.

 

you real,?are you one of them health and safty people who only see things in your own tunnel,, muzzle cleaning ???? lol this got to be a wind up... the whole world gone h&s mad with out people on here adding to it.. think most people who apply for a fac have some knoledge of air rifles shot guns etc with out all this bull ,, its a gun,, just a gun,,, ok it can kill ,, but so can a axe,a knife,, a hammer, srewdriver and even the kitchen frying pan,,,,,,,,, its the word gun tho !! time to get real i think...

 

You've obviously missed my point, and I believe in learning the hard way and natural selection So H+S I'm not...

 

I said 'Muzzle clearing'... I've talked to newcomers who think that you can just shoot through a blocked muzzle

My FEO said the problem they have is anyone can get a licence, irrespective of experience. Shooting a .177 doesn't mean the same people automatically appreciate the power of firearms.

IMO, the most dangerous calibre out there is .22 rimfire! As quiet as an air rifle with virtually no recoil, the novices who get these can forget how dangerous they can be, and think bushes are a safe backstop.

 

I'm not saying it should be mandatory for everyone, just those with no experience.

 

The problem for me is this: if someone were to shoot themself because they were dicking about and didn't have a clue then fair enough, but bullets travel kilometres and still kill at the other end, why should someone inexperienced be allowed to have something that could potentially kill someone else, all because someone is moaning about having to be mentored???

 

[muddy210 34]

as a FAc holder for 20 odd years i have seen a load of these questions get raised and they tend to rear there ugly heads every now and again. in the good old days the copper coming to inspect your cabinet and guns had some gumtion about him and they new a bit about firearms and guns in general and where able to ask the relevant questions as to weather you where a suitable candidate for holding an FAC. the guy that i first met was ex army he new a ggod deal about firearms and being in the forces myself he knew of the knowledge that i had due to previous training.

 

the problem we seem to have now is that they will send the nearest available PCSO round with a quick questionaire, the guy they sent to me last couldnt tell me the difference between my rifles and me shotguns so how is he to deem i am competant to own these weapons. on intial issue of a certificate this problem can be overcome by putting the mentoring clause into the certificate therefor in some ways passing the book to another person ie another FAC holder. the police in general are scared witless that they will be prosecuted by someone for wrongly issuing a certificate to an unsuitable person due to a number of reasons.

 

if you feel that the issue of a certificate with the condition that you must be mentored should be removed in the first instance speak to the team at BASC if you are a member it is not a lawful condition that you are to have this placed on your certificate. a good reason for owning each firearm must be made on your aplication and equally so a good reason for the non issue from the polioce for a firearm is required mentoring is not a reuirement by law at present.