A historical question: really carefully formulated LOL

[skycat 6,173]

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

[brendy mc l 694]

have no point to add to this but very intresting ??????

[Simoman 110]

My GUESS would be from historical aspect that the lack of available fresh meat and convinience foods meant a dog which caught edible game was more practical than a vermin dog, i would say that when this changed after the second world war, especially with the lurcher boom in the 70's dogs could be more utilitarian and enjoyed for sport too, rather than as a pot filler. People could add meat to the larder but many just enjoyed seeing dogs work and found the plentiful pest the fox a viable sporting quarry, then when the bull came onto the scene thhe ultimate vermin dog was introduced. As i ay just a my take on it, could be full of it, often am............

 

P.S. Thanks Penny as you know i like a well formulated thread

[asanley 1,009]

Maybe the fox population wasn,t as numerous as today ,( urban foxes are a relativly new phenomena )and the Hunts wielded more power in the countryside , any foxes were considered as untouchable by anyone except the Hunts , and farmers and humble lurcher owners would be loathe to get on the wrong side of the hunt .

It could also be that lamping is a fairly recent method of hunting foxes , I should imagine that the numbers of fox taken with a lurcher without the aid of a lamp are negligable .

[Sirius 1,391]

My bet would be the fact food was more important back then, I mean who wants a stinking old reynard (apart from maybe the pelt?). Of course when lamping started I should think it all changed and it was far easier to take all game, especially fox :thumbs:

Edited April 30, 2012 by Sirius

[Malt 379]

I don't know, but maybe the fox killing lurcher found a niche as another tool in the box of the gamekeeper and maybe took off from there? Food for thought!

[chartpolski 23,113]

When I started back in the 60's, (o.k., not that far back in the grand scheme of thing), hare was the main Lurcher quarry for me, then rabbits, then deer. As it was all daytime,we didn't see as many foxes as we would when lamping took off ! Foxes were the quarry of the Terrier men, and they were welcome to them as far as we were concerned... you couldn't sell a fox in the pub, or eat it, so they were generaly avoded. When we started lamping, somehow foxes became fair game, and some lads changed the types of dogs they ran to reflect this. So I would suppose it was the change over from daywalking to lamping that had the effect of more lurchers being used on fox.

 

Cheers.

[TOMO 26,020]

to answer your question skycat,,, i would say its the last 25,,years or so that foxing with lurchers has become real popular..

 

but like you say im shure lads with lurchers have been catching them well befor that,,, but possibly more like you say just odd ones here and there.

 

but dont you think that lurchers have always taken them,,, maybee they were always expected to take them ,,, after all in in other countrys there lurchers (saluki, sloughi ect ect) were expected to take anything ,,,, so maybee hundreds of years ago lurchers or any sighthound type was expected to take them ,, to protect stock just like today,,, after all last thing you want is your chickens,ducks , or lambs took,,,and i bet in them days it was a bigger loss , loosing stock

[socks 32,253]

Posed this question to my old fella who is 73 and has kept lurchers and terriers his whole life ... He told me that for as long as he has been hunting he expected his lurchers to kill any fox they came across ... As he said the dogs were not out and out fox dogs his main quarry was rabbit and deer as the sale of these beasts supplemented his shit miners wage ... BUT if a farmer wanted a pest gone be it badger or fox then if you didn't oblige you would be soon off the land and somebody else would be in who could do the job ... He did however tell me that if the weather was to bad for ferreting or if he was bored he would load a few terriers and a lurcher and walk the mountain looking for earths to bolt foxes for the lurchers .... So I suppose we can go back to the 1950's and say they were being used then for fox control of a sort .............

[mushroom 12,866]

Very interesting thread!! Especialy Charts post that the terriermen had the fox and the lurchermen leaned towards edible game.. Makes sense..

[fredthefrog 169]

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

if ted walsh sais that he cant have hunted many foxs its as simple as that really.....atb ftf..

[forest of dean redneck 11,532]

when was it fox pelts were fetching good money?

i would say in the late ,s/90,s when people were bit more well off and it was more sport than pest control the lurcher was used more for fox than edible quarry.

 

didnt walsh say something about if a lurcher couldnt bowl a fox over before a hedge it wouldnt be good for much else as because the fox is a predator it doesnt exert it self to start with in the chase until its pressured?

an before anyone starts im trying to remember a passage in a book i havent owned in about 8 years.

nor have i ever hunted one

[paulus 26]

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

if ted walsh sais that he cant have hunted many foxs its as simple as that really.....atb ftf..

ted walsh kept the wheaten cross doubt if he kept them for rabbit i remember lads taking fox over rabbits in the 70`s as they were getting very good money for the pelts, mainly 3/4 collie greys

[fredthefrog 169]

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

if ted walsh sais that he cant have hunted many foxs its as simple as that really.....atb ftf..

ted walsh kept the wheaten cross doubt if he kept them for rabbit i remember lads taking fox over rabbits in the 70`s as they were getting very good money for the pelts, mainly 3/4 collie greys

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

if ted walsh sais that he cant have hunted many foxs its as simple as that really.....atb ftf..

ted walsh kept the wheaten cross doubt if he kept them for rabbit i remember lads taking fox over rabbits in the 70`s as they were getting very good money for the pelts, mainly 3/4 collie greys

thort teds were beardie collie type crosses????an if he recons foxs a slow an easier then any other quarry species then like i said ted certainly didnt hunt many cause i seen fox make some a the fastest dogs look silly an thats with a motor up there arse aswell an i doubt ted hunted fox from a 4x4

[paulus 26]

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

if ted walsh sais that he cant have hunted many foxs its as simple as that really.....atb ftf..

ted walsh kept the wheaten cross doubt if he kept them for rabbit i remember lads taking fox over rabbits in the 70`s as they were getting very good money for the pelts, mainly 3/4 collie greys

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

OK, here's a question for those interested in the historical use of lurchers................

 

Traditionally the lurcher was used to hunt for the pot: in other words, to catch edible game. So when did it start being used for fox control? How recent a development was this in terms of breeding for specific quarry? If you go back over the years, it seems that most lurchers took fox when the opportunity arose: read Ted Walsh's books, or Frank Sheardown. It seemed to be the norm, though not the main agenda for most lurchers. Ted Walsh even says that the lurcher that couldn't catch a fox wouldn't be able to catch much else as the fox is slower than just about any other UK mammal.

 

We read that foxes, say 200 years ago, were not as numerous as they are today, which is why most hound packs hunted the hare as opposed to the fox. So was it simply that lurchers didn't come across foxes in the sort of numbers we see nowadays? Or did fewer people see the fox as viable game for lurchers?

if ted walsh sais that he cant have hunted many foxs its as simple as that really.....atb ftf..

ted walsh kept the wheaten cross doubt if he kept them for rabbit i remember lads taking fox over rabbits in the 70`s as they were getting very good money for the pelts, mainly 3/4 collie greys

thort teds were beardie collie type crosses????an if he recons foxs a slow an easier then any other quarry species then like i said ted certainly didnt hunt many cause i seen fox make some a the fastest dogs look silly an thats with a motor up there arse aswell an i doubt ted hunted fox from a 4x4

he kept a few different cross`s whippits included. i suppose if you compare a fox to a hare its slow. ive never hunted from a 4 x 4 never mind walsh i also believe that just like now any fawn rough coated dog became a wheaten romany should be able to clear it up as i do believe he coursed with the man