Rhabdomyolsis

[paulus 26]

They used to call it Monday Morning Sickness in working horses: horses that had stood in their stalls all weekend, being fed the same amount of protein when not working, then the back muscles would seize up when they started work again: also called azoturia.

 

http://patricia-dodd...yndrome-a216466

 

So yes, diet can play a part in the problem, but I do think that certain dogs are more prone to the problem than others. Dogs with a higher percentage of greyhound blood in their breeding from the sounds of it.

theres not a huge amount of greyhoung in him. his sire is 1/16 bull grey to 1/2 collie grey and his dam is a 3/4 bull/whippit. hes 4 1/2 years old and never suffered anything like this even with far more harder runs. going to sound daft but i think he was to fit for far to long.

[skycat 6,173]

That makes sense to me: if he was super fit, his metabolism was adapted to that state, so even a slight drop off in fitness would have thrown his body into disarray when faced with a hard run. I'm not remotely scientifically minded, but it sort of fits IMO.

Edited April 27, 2012 by skycat

[paulus 26]

That makes sense to me: if he was super fit, his metabolism was adapted to that state, so even a slight drop off in fitness would have thrown his body into disarray when faced with a hard run. I'm not remotely scientifically minded, but it sort of fits IMO.

me neither in the absense of all logic then the illogical has to be considered :laugh:

[Guest Moscow]

In my experience the faster do or die type of lurchers have suffered from it not the plodders. Fitness, diet and quarry type play a part aswell and there is no easy answer to the problem.

[paulus 26]

In my experience the faster do or die type of lurchers have suffered from it not the plodders. Fitness, diet and quarry type play a part aswell and there is no easy answer to the problem.

he should not have caught what he did i watched him fade away twice only to pull back through sheer determination, he his without doubt the most detrmined dog ive ever bred. the quarry he chased also acted and ran like no other ive seen of his kind and ive seen more than my fair share. hes making progress, however the weight/muscle loss is going to take some time to come back. untill that day i had only experienced mild acidosis and stiffness, it is definitely a wake up call when it happens to your dog.

[skycat 6,173]

That sort of drive will always endanger the dog: couple extreme determination with the fast twitch (sprint type) muscles, which are more easily damaged than slow twitch muscles, and the animal puts itself in danger. It's the animals which run anaerobically, using the limited supply of oxygen in their muscles, that are more prone to tying up. Stamina runners can draw on the oxygen circulating in their blood to supply the muscles.

[paulus 26]

That sort of drive will always endanger the dog: couple extreme determination with the fast twitch (sprint type) muscles, which are more easily damaged than slow twitch muscles, and the animal puts itself in danger. It's the animals which run anaerobically, using the limited supply of oxygen in their muscles, that are more prone to tying up. Stamina runners can draw on the oxygen circulating in their blood to supply the muscles.

again a good reply, he was bred to achieve an explosive burst of take off speed with the power to tackle at the catch stage, as the fields around here are quite small. his speed from take off is unbelivable, his determination has led to multiple injuries. he will not give in, no matter what.

[sandymere 8,263]

Muscle strength and fitness levels drop off within days of reducing exercise and can become marked in as little as 10 days. Then you describe a run that ended in sheer mind over body stuff. End result is trauma to the muscles of locomotion, don’t need to be scientific, good dogs try harder. Rather than a major muscle strain/tear you get tiny micro tears throughout the muscle that damages a large proportion of the cells which then release their contents, that’s rhabdomyolysis.

It’s a risk of the type of dog and the only way to prevent it completely is to own dogs that don’t try to hard.

[sowhat 1,572]

Sorry to read about your dog Paulus, I hope he makes a full recovery

I must admit I had never heard of Rhabdomyolsis until I read this, and it makes very interesting reading.

I hope it never happens to any of my dogs, but at least if it does I'll now know what it is .

[paulus 26]

Sorry to read about your dog Paulus, I hope he makes a full recovery

I must admit I had never heard of Rhabdomyolsis until I read this, and it makes very interesting reading.

I hope it never happens to any of my dogs, but at least if it does I'll now know what it is .

thats my main reason for this post im also documenting the recovery, so theres a few real facts.

[paulus 26]

day 15, hes perfect in him self and his muscle is starting to come back, shows more on gluteal(hip muscle) i am feeding him twice a day with a mixture of pasta/raw minced chicken/complete and added veg and gravy. im also adding sa50 once a week and half a tin of tomatoes twive a week.

[budgie123 163]

I would advice people to read posts on the greyhound data about this subject.There is some very good information about manageing dogs diet wise to bring dogs back to as near the same level as possible.

The posts also bring into question the use of recharge and newtradex due to certain substances in the products which can compound the situation.

Something which i have been using with the best of intensions to keep the dogs healthy but something i will be now changing.

This appears to be something that the greyhound circle has been aware of for some time even though some vets are still advocating the use of it.

 

If you go on greyhound data then forum and onto health section and search acidosis you will find information.

[paulus 26]

I would advice people to read posts on the greyhound data about this subject.There is some very good information about manageing dogs diet wise to bring dogs back to as near the same level as possible.

The posts also bring into question the use of recharge and newtradex due to certain substances in the products which can compound the situation.

Something which i have been using with the best of intensions to keep the dogs healthy but something i will be now changing.

This appears to be something that the greyhound circle has been aware of for some time even though some vets are still advocating the use of it.

 

If you go on greyhound data then forum and onto health section and search acidosis you will find information.

since my dog suffered rhabdomoisis i have trawled the net, spoke to greyhound trainers,vets and people on here via this post, including the american greyhound forum your reffering to, there is a lot of contradictory information on the subjet mainly because of the conditions link to acidosis, acidiosis being a milder form of the condition, the best information i can deduce so far is, the condition can effect not only unfit dogs by fully fit dogs aswell especially in nevous or excitable dogs and dogs with a very high prey drive, its imposible to detect the onset of rhabdomyolis untill it occurs as the symptoms may not start until up to 72 hrs after the run and come on suddenly as happened in my case the dog was perfectly normal up until 16 hrs after the run. once the muscle starts to break down and clog the kidneys its a vet job for pain relief and iv fluids, the midrift muscles waste over the next few days and the dog takes on an appearence of being starved. after this all that can be done to rebuild the muscles is time, excercise and a good diet. the confusion on electrolites comes from the milder acidosis, do they work or prevent acidosis well who knows, those that use it and their dog never suffers acidosis will say yes, those thats dogs do get it will say no. i think its mainly given in an attempt to raise pottassium levels in the dog, another way would be tinned tomatoes in the diet. my honest answer, if your dog suffers acidosis then theres a good chance it will only consist of short term muscle cramps and general stiffness for a few days, any treatment that may help the dog and or make the owner feel better is good. if your dog suffers rhabdomolis then its a vet job. as for the long term out come who knows as only time will tell, i will keep updating this thread to let you know. i do believe the people who would hold a lot of knowledge on rhobdomolsis and acidosis would be the coursing greyhound owners and trainers.

[budgie123 163]

Bicarbonate is one of the bodys important buffers.Bicarbonate works to bring both acid or alkaline solutions back to normal ph in the body.When a greyhounds runs a race,the muscle cells break down glucose for energy needed to make muscles contract.Under the short conditions of the race,this glucose in the muscle cells becomes converted into lactic acid or lectate.The buffers inside and outside the cells( in the blood) neutralize this acid so that it will not significantly lower the ph of the system and damage the cells.

A study of sprint exercise in greyhounds showed that there was an approximate 15-fold increase in blood lactate and a 7-fold increase in muscle lactate peak levels that occur 5 minutes after a 400m race.At that time blood ph was acidic.Yet 30 mins after the race these values had returned to normal.

An unfit greyhound that runs too fast and too far may produce too much lactic acid for the buffering system to handle and the result is exertional rhabdomylosis or metabolic acidosis.

Deficiences in bicarbonate can occur in the greyhound when there is excessive panting.In the body,bicarbonate is in balance or equilibrium with carbon dioxide.With panting the carbon dioxide levels in the blood decrease and the ph increases (respiratory alkalosis).This sets into motion kidney responses which effectively eliminate some of the bicarbonate. A greyhound going into a race under this condition will have less buffering capacity to the lactic acid that is poduced with the muscular exercise in the run and will be more prone to exertional rhabdomylosis or metabolic acidosis.

Highly excitable greyhounds can be supplemented with 1/2 teaspoon bicarbonate of soda once a day.

It may be advisable,with greyhounds that are excitable or tend to pant in the pre-race kennel be given the following prior to kenneling.

 

One cup of water with a small amount of milk to flavor it.

Two level teaspoons glucodin(glucose).

One level teaspoon of a balanced electrolite supplement(preferably one desingned for greyhounds).

One-half a level teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda.

 

All the information above is taken word for word from the book Care of the Racing Greyhound and i hope it is of some benefit to the subject being discussed.

[budgie123 163]

SUBACUTE EXERTIONAL RHABDOMYOLYSIS

 

This form is never fatal and myoglobinuria is rarely seen.This form is most commonly seen in fit greyhounds that are trialing or racing too frequently.A possible explanation for this involves the potassium ion.Potasium ions are in high concentrations inside cells and low concentrations in the extracellular fluids( fluids in the body but on the outside of the cells).It has been documented in dogs that when a muscle cell contracts there is an outflow of potassium ions from the cell.These potasssium ions act upon the blood vessels, the arterioles and capillary bed to open them to increase blood flow(vasodilation).In effect this helps dissipate the heat produced with exercise,flush out the waste metabolities(including the hydrogen ions),and increase the inflow of oxygen,glucose and bicarbonate buffer to the cells.If the potassium levels inside the cells progressively fall(reach a level of potassium deficiency), then there is insufficient outflow of potassium ions on muscular contraction to stimulate local vasodilation.In fact all of the cellular changes of exertional rhabdomyolysis have been produced experimentally by lowering the intracellular potassium level.There is also scientific evidence to show thet an increased amount of potassium and hydrogen ions are excreted in the urine after severe muscular exertion.This process is aggrevated by the increase levels of cortisol and aldosterone(adrenal gland hormones) produced by the greyhound under conditions of a stressfull training-racing program.It is well documented that cortisol will promote sodium retention and potassium excretion via the urine.

It appears, therefore that some greyhounds subjected to a stressfull racing program ie two races or trials per week suffer a relative potassium deficiency.This is relative in the sense that while the deficit is not sufficient to produce marked changes in the blood or extracellular fluids it is sufficient to cause a failure to induce the vasodilation of the blood vessels during muscle contraction.The outcome is then a retention of the heat produced by exercise and a reduction in blood flow to the muscle cells(ischemia).This leads to the subacute form of exertional rhabdomyolysis.

 

Agian the information is taken word for word from the book Care of the Racing Greyhound and i think it is relavant to the subject being discussed.

I am just a laymen but this seems a possibility as you have described the amount odf daily exercise you were giving the dog at the time of it being effected.

I hope it may be helpfull to some people.

 

At the end of the chapter on Hyperacute Exertional Rhabdomyolysis,Acute Exertional Rhabdomyolysis,Subacute Exertional Rhabdomyolysis is states that these conditions are a disease of management induced by human intervention rather than being a muscle weakness or defect.