Liars or am I doing something wrong?

[.338LM 10]

You highlight another issue that some folks may have trappa, the hardest skill to teach, the most difficult to maintain and the first to go awry: judging distances accurately. Most think they can do it well, a few understand they cannot and practice religiously to try and be reasonable at it. We had more folks failing snipers cadres due to inability at this skill that through poor shooting. God bless affordable rangefinders.

 

Having said all that I consider myself a competent but not good shot. I have shit days where I am unable to connect with anything and I have days where its just all comes together. The trick is to train enough so that the shit days are few and far between and the good days become more regular.

Training establishes confidence and muscle memory. Confidence enables us to pull of the the tricky shots.

 

 

Edit to add: Well done for the good shooting.

Edited April 21, 2012 by .338LM

[Leamo 7]

Never thought for one minute I'd cause such a debate but that's not a bad thing after all it's a forum. I understand shooting ability and practice along with good kit is essential. I also no that a .22 will kill until the round stops so let's say 800 meters ish with wind trajectory bla bla bla! What I am saying is I do think people who say they group one and half inches at 100 meters outside consistently talk poo poo, infact anyone who sends me a non falsified video with an address on it I'll send the money for a pint. Post it to leamanneil@yahoo.co.uk I'd like to see it is the truth so come on fellas post away cus I'm Fu¥€ed if I can do it.

[richmcgin 32]

your missing the point my ol mate as i said before i cant play a flute so it must be impossible, I have only tried to group HV at 100yrd plus and they do ok, i think the main problem is that the playground bullies dont like to think that the other kids are having fun.

If you know what i mean

 

[Leamo 7]

I agree with you my friend and after all this is a site for chat amongst "adults" with a common interest and your right there is no place for bullying of any kind neither in cyber world or the real one. When I started this a few weeks ago I was basically just checking out if a consistent group of say five rounds could be slot into a small group repeatedly for arguments sake 5 times on the trott. My hmr17 223 and 243 will easily but why I asked specifically for a .22 rimfire is because I can't not a 2" group anyway not even 3, but hear so many people say they can and my personal opinion is it can't be, not regularly especially into a group under the size of let's say for arguments sake a Golf ball. I'm talking .22 rf outside 100 meters. I'd like to see it done and no how and with what gun and rounds it'd save me a lot of stalking. By for now.

[richmcgin 32]

When i test ammo or zero a rifle i shoot of the harris on a bench and iam seated for me it is important to know the zero is right, i know this situation does not relate back to a hunting situation but i always know the scope is on and a miss is down to me, i do have some targets on here somewhere that show 100 and 150 3 shot groups i agree that a better indication as to group will come from a 5 shot group but i always do 3 shots and to be honest although it nice to get a good group iam not too bothered iam more concerned with where the first shot goes. I have no doubt that you can shoot 22 better than you think, sometimes its something very small that will make all the difference. i see your in my neck of the woods, so if your ever near west somerset you would be most welcome to stop by and we could pop out and make some noise.

 

What rifle do u use.

[Leamo 7]

Yeah would love to arrange a shoot one day would be good. I have just bought a cz452 varmint.22 I prefere it over the hmr it's lovely and quite. I'm not a bad shot I'll hit drawing pin heads consistently out to 70 from 20, now I no what that sounds like but I'll video it and send it to you. Try this. Zero your gun at 20 meters and because of the rise before the fall you will have the same zero at 50 in-between 20 and 50 you'll only be about 8 to 11 mm high also zeroing at twenty you will put as many rounds as you like threw the same hole this saves rounds and you will be bang on. Then 50 to 70 the same 8 to 11 the other way 70 - cross on top the head you'll miss nothing at all this way no guessing at all. Try it zero at twenty metres you'll be amazed none of this zeroing at sixty crap! The bigger stuff I only use rarely when I want some venison in the freezer. Leamanneil@yahoo.co.uk if you fancy a chat it's easier cheers for now.

[riflehunter583 58]

I'm looking forward to seeing some of the decent people on here shoot their wares after some offers on here. It would be interesting to shoot their guns and see if there's a kit difference that makes the difference of a long range .22 group - maybe some barrels are tighter than others, or a key tolerance somewhere else?

I'm a very competent shot, nothing more or less, and if its not a kit difference, then I'd like to learn from someone who can extract more form the .22lr than I can. Maybe I've just had bad examples of rimfires?

It will be nice to see and take the empirical view.

 

Cheers

 

D.

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head there really.

 

1. i believe that leanring from others is what this forum and shooting with friends/work collegues etc is all about. some people know a bit about some stuff other people know a bit about other stuff.

I am not arrogant, and can admit that i have leanred alot from other people and there own experiences.

 

2. i think most if not all people that are into shoot a fair bit are good shots, in fact i bet 90% of people on this forum can shoot very well. that said i think it is not the quality of the shooter so much as the qaulity AND CONSISTENCY of the ammo, trigger, barrel etc THAT VARIES SO MUCH WITH .22LR. i think there is much more inconsitency in terms of rifle quality /ammo quality than with many other kit (eg. .17 .223 .308 .338 etc). after all the .22lr is bult on a BUDGET. the secret is getting the most from a buget gun and ammo.

 

therefore to answer the original question your NOT DOING SOMTHING WRONG AND NO NOT ALL LIARS.

 

MAYBE YOUR .22LR RIFLE /AMMO IS AVERAGE.

 

maybe i got lucky with my SECOND.22lr rifle purchase and i got lucky finding the right rounds that match it. maybe you shoot better than me but its your kit that lets you down.

 

all that said i think a meet up between members would prove my above point/answer correct that its more the guns and ammo that make the difference in this humble cal: the .22lr.

Edited April 23, 2012 by riflehunter583

[riflehunter583 58]

are those figures in yards and milldots riflehunter? impressive shooting by the way

i've really done most of my hunting with my cz .22 in the 20 to 70 yard target range (mostly lamping) so wondered what it would be in inches rather than mildots. atb

 

thanks mate.

to be honest mate i have never measured it in inches so i am not to sure.

what i did was shoot loads of rounds at targets from 20 - 190 yards. for 3 months writing down where each bullet hit at different ranges all the time. like mapping the trajectory.

i then put it all into a graph and made a table and stuck the table to my rifle but.

 

now when i see the spot i want to hit i measure the distance with a range finder then looked on the table to see the aim point and without changing my 50y zero i use the mill dots down from centre.

usually shooting at 10x my scope recital is a 10 mill down from centre half mill dot.

the crazy thing is i miss more stuff at close range now (50y) and hit the longer range stuff (70 - 140y) quiet well. i've got a good idea why this is. but i think its still ironic and confusing!

Edited April 23, 2012 by riflehunter583

[paulus 26]

are those figures in yards and milldots riflehunter? impressive shooting by the way

i've really done most of my hunting with my cz .22 in the 20 to 70 yard target range (mostly lamping) so wondered what it would be in inches rather than mildots. atb

 

thanks mate.

to be honest mate i have never measured it in inches so i am not to sure.

what i did was shoot loads of rounds at targets from 20 - 190 yards. for 3 months writing down where each bullet hit at different ranges all the time. like mapping the trajectory.

i then put it all into a graph and made a table and stuck the table to my rifle but.

 

now when i see the spot i want to hit i measure the distance with a range finder then looked on the table to see the aim point and without changing my 50y zero i use the mill dots down from centre.

usually shooting at 10x my scope recital is a 10 mill down from centre half mill dot.

the crazy thing is i miss more stuff at close range now (50y) and hit the longer range stuff (70 - 140y) quiet well. i've got a good idea why this is. but i think its still ironic and confusing!

all goes out the window when its dark

[tegater 789]

are those figures in yards and milldots riflehunter? impressive shooting by the way

i've really done most of my hunting with my cz .22 in the 20 to 70 yard target range (mostly lamping) so wondered what it would be in inches rather than mildots. atb

 

thanks mate.

to be honest mate i have never measured it in inches so i am not to sure.

what i did was shoot loads of rounds at targets from 20 - 190 yards. for 3 months writing down where each bullet hit at different ranges all the time. like mapping the trajectory.

i then put it all into a graph and made a table and stuck the table to my rifle but.

 

now when i see the spot i want to hit i measure the distance with a range finder then looked on the table to see the aim point and without changing my 50y zero i use the mill dots down from centre.

usually shooting at 10x my scope recital is a 10 mill down from centre half mill dot.

the crazy thing is i miss more stuff at close range now (50y) and hit the longer range stuff (70 - 140y) quiet well. i've got a good idea why this is. but i think its still ironic and confusing!

I know exactly how you feel, I am often doing the same with the hmr, and I usually put that down to concentrating less because they look easier!!l In terms of the trajectory tables, I chronographed mine and then stuck it through ballistic software such as "shooter" and "Strelok". They both give me the same data back, and this data is absolutly bang on with what my rifle is doing. I printed off a data card, laminated it and keep it in the neoprene stock sleeve. In all honesty it is only for shots between 200-300 that I now use it, and it would be useless without the rangefinders, as a result of the trajectory dropping so quickly at these ranges.

[Leamo 7]

I have done exactly what the fella with the range finder did from 20 meters out to 180 and stuck the results to my range finder only I only use them out to 100 because past 90 really is pot shots for me. And as for 180 meters the drop was such alot I ran out of mill dots so was completely guess work so I sacked it. The problem I think is most definitely the rounds, let's face it they're cheap and nasty how ever much you pay for them. Some of the cheapest rounds are infact made buy a company who make the most expensive just a different label and price baby!

By the way I ran out of mil dots at 180 only as I did it at a 50 meter zero, and before I get blasted with the killing capabilities I no it'd kill beyond 180 easy IF YOU COULD HIT IT.

Without banging on to much my personal opinion is grouping 5 rounds constantly at 100 meters in a 2 to 3 inch group cannot be done therefore killing at a 100 plus is more luck than judgment. That's not attacking anyone or capabilities but I continue to hear it and never have seen it. Going to meet up with someone I met in here and compare notes and maybe learn a thing or two.

Ps I use eley benchrest golds and standard hollow point eley subs and still reckon the 2 to 3" group at one hundred meters is a myth. Don't forget leamanneil@yahoo.co.uk for your free pint from me if you send me a genuine 2to3" group vid at 100 meters outside.

[riflehunter583 58]

are those figures in yards and milldots riflehunter? impressive shooting by the way

i've really done most of my hunting with my cz .22 in the 20 to 70 yard target range (mostly lamping) so wondered what it would be in inches rather than mildots. atb

 

thanks mate.

to be honest mate i have never measured it in inches so i am not to sure.

what i did was shoot loads of rounds at targets from 20 - 190 yards. for 3 months writing down where each bullet hit at different ranges all the time. like mapping the trajectory.

i then put it all into a graph and made a table and stuck the table to my rifle but.

 

now when i see the spot i want to hit i measure the distance with a range finder then looked on the table to see the aim point and without changing my 50y zero i use the mill dots down from centre.

usually shooting at 10x my scope recital is a 10 mill down from centre half mill dot.

the crazy thing is i miss more stuff at close range now (50y) and hit the longer range stuff (70 - 140y) quiet well. i've got a good idea why this is. but i think its still ironic and confusing!

I know exactly how you feel, I am often doing the same with the hmr, and I usually put that down to concentrating less because they look easier!!l In terms of the trajectory tables, I chronographed mine and then stuck it through ballistic software such as "shooter" and "Strelok". They both give me the same data back, and this data is absolutly bang on with what my rifle is doing. I printed off a data card, laminated it and keep it in the neoprene stock sleeve. In all honesty it is only for shots between 200-300 that I now use it, and it would be useless without the rangefinders, as a result of the trajectory dropping so quickly at these ranges.

 

i totally agree. i missed a pigeon sitting in the field today at 48-50yards ish. normally considered an umissable shot by me. i did not give the shot what was required and missed what looked like a straight forward shot with no wind. same with 2 other pigeons earlier in the week bellow 50 yards. longer range gives me more time to get the shot right and game is genrally less figity at range. the pigeons magpies and crows seem happier when there is some distance between me and them giving me more time, a chance to get into a good position and concentrate on good shooting technique taking a steady aim and squeezing a shot off. time for good range estimation, time for good wind estimation. the quality of my shotting is gernally much better reaching out and more humain.

[riflehunter583 58]

I have done exactly what the fella with the range finder did from 20 meters out to 180 and stuck the results to my range finder only I only use them out to 100 because past 90 really is pot shots for me. And as for 180 meters the drop was such alot I ran out of mill dots so was completely guess work so I sacked it. The problem I think is most definitely the rounds, let's face it they're cheap and nasty how ever much you pay for them. Some of the cheapest rounds are infact made buy a company who make the most expensive just a different label and price baby!

By the way I ran out of mil dots at 180 only as I did it at a 50 meter zero, and before I get blasted with the killing capabilities I no it'd kill beyond 180 easy IF YOU COULD HIT IT.

Without banging on to much my personal opinion is grouping 5 rounds constantly at 100 meters in a 2 to 3 inch group cannot be done therefore killing at a 100 plus is more luck than judgment. That's not attacking anyone or capabilities but I continue to hear it and never have seen it. Going to meet up with someone I met in here and compare notes and maybe learn a thing or two.

Ps I use eley benchrest golds and standard hollow point eley subs and still reckon the 2 to 3" group at one hundred meters is a myth. Don't forget leamanneil@yahoo.co.uk for your free pint from me if you send me a genuine 2to3" group vid at 100 meters outside.

 

mate i have to go to plymouth in the next two months on business.

if your interested i will bring my .22lr and meet you down your way, let you have a go with it.

IF YOU DON'T GET AN IMPRESSIVE GROUP WITH MY browning 52 target rifle /.22LR I WILL BE VERY SUPPRISED.

you can pay for the rounds though!

 

i think i should be able to put it on u tube off my camera.

Edited April 23, 2012 by riflehunter583

[Rake aboot 4,935]

Winchester have always been best for me with the CZ, but still, I would never attempt a 110 yrd + zero due to the lack of consistancy. Long shots are perfectly possible, I have certainly never said otherwise. I have had a few nice long shots, but mega long zero in the hope of consistant tight groups is something I would never bother with due to the inherant issues with wax coated rimfire ammo. And a big pinch off salt taken with claims of long range genius with what is effectively crap ammo.

 

my zero on my .22lr is 50y rake aboot

 

I don`t doubt it, this goes back to earlier threads,with some claiming massive distances for zeroing, And someones just in the huff with me cause I neglect to forget the utter bullshit they posted when they first came on THL.

 

ATB bud

Rake

 

well belive what you want you sound like a very anrgy man. my zero has always been 50 yards becuase you could not figure it out from my threads heres my ammo trajectory which has taken me months to perfect.

YMillYMill10-2.23105-2.715-0.74110-320-0.1115-3.3250.19120-3.7300.3125-4350.31130-4.3400.25135-4.6450.14140-5500145-5.455-0.17150-5.7560-0.36155-6.165-0.57160-6.470-0.8165-6.875-1.03170-7.1-1.29175-7.585-1.551807.990-1.82185-8.295-2.11190-8.5100-2.4195-8.8 200-9.1

 

just becuse your kit cannot do it and you cannot shot like me does not mean i cannot do it.

 

today i managed a 1.1 inch groups at 125y with 3 shots off a cheap bn q table with tripod.

 

shot a 102 y magpie with my .22lr 2 days ago (INSTANT KILL WITH FIRST SHOT) and a 115y pigeon with my fac airgun yesterday.

 

both were hit centre mass with the first shot in a little wind left ti right.

 

today i hit my plastic magpie target at the other side of the field every time. TIME AFTER TIME after time at 145y with my airgun and every time with my .22lr at 125y.

 

i don't expect you to believe me, i'm not bothered either way now. i know i can do it the more you dibelive the more i feel good about my shooting.

 

atb

 

Did you actually read my post before you answered ?

I said I did not doubt you, so where did all your "angry man " just because your kit cant do it ! etc etc come from.I feel good blah blah I think maybe you like a wee boast to yourself eh?? not every one on this hunting site uses a target rifle.

I reckon you sound like the angry one, jumping in with insults without bothering to read the replies,, but hey ho, bash on mate, means nowt

[DIVERD 34]

I have two very distinct rabbiting grounds, one where we can shoot all day out to 70 yards and get good results with CZ.22 and CCI subs, and another where we have to shoot 90 to 130 yards and use the HMR there.

 

The 70 yard bit has a great warren at 105 yards however and to save taking two rifles we regularly take good numbers off a mound, rifle on a bipod, with the .22. I have balistic turrets on the scope, and spent a good bit of time practicing and setting a second zero point for 105 with the .22. We have found the rifle more than capable if properly set up. Ok, we do miss from time to time, but we get the odd HV round in every box and so expect the slight variation in powder is emphasised at longer ranges, and we are comfortable with our hit rate, basically the same as at 70 yards. All the shots are set with a range finder, and we have set a little cover at each warren, so can move from one to the other as we disturb the ground with shots.

 

We dont tend to lamp these areas, they are a fill in before and after deer stalking, as the grounds are both 45 minutes away and it is often a long drive for one bang!

 

I am not the best shot in the world, but think that most rifles if reasonably well cared for are capable than far more accuracy than we are. What i have noticed time and time again is that many folks dont use quality bipods, and dont range find shots. My small group all use quality swivel bipods, and as deer stalkers range find almost every shot, and even with years of experience guess ranges wrongly, as light, and ground topography can be really missleading at times