Need some help :)

[J.DOG 1,355]

Right well my lurcher is 20 months saluki type.

 

He was spot on good recall ect

 

But lately he wont retrieve he will either run it catch it leave it or bring it in about 9 feet away and drop it , I dont know why he's doing this it's only me and him no other dogs or distractions.

 

Any help would be great

 

Thanks JD

[Casso 1,261]

Right well my lurcher is 20 months saluki type.

 

He was spot on good recall ect

 

But lately he wont retrieve he will either run it catch it leave it or bring it in about 9 feet away and drop it , I dont know why he's doing this it's only me and him no other dogs or distractions.

 

Any help would be great

 

Thanks JD

its hard to know whats going on in situations like the one your having with the dog, but the first thing i always look for in a doggy problem is "whats in it for the dog" by that i mean what the motivation for the act of bringing back the item,

also is the dog distracted where this is happening and whats your relationship like with the dog??

 

for the first one, praise and treats seem to be the most widely used method for the retrieve on this site, praise is good if you have a good understanding between you and the mutt and are not dishing out praise left , right and center otherwise,

and treats are good for a food driven hungry dog, but for some dogs they just like to be in drive , its the feeling they get when hunting and it feels great for them, that been the ultimate motivation for a driven dog,

some dogs just dont equate the energy output for a lot of the things we want them to do as worthwhile,if it doesn't tap in to their drive energy

 

so we need to equate bringing back an item to us as a chance to chase for another item , we need two items for this and the ability to be able to stimulate his drive with the other item and this is where your relationship with the dogs comes in, if we have been overly dominant with the dog we may not be able to rouse his interest and the dog will tunes us out,

because he just dont associate been in drive and been round us because every other time he's in drive he is running away from us

 

i know a lot of lurchers owners dislike the word play where their dog is concerned, but its a huge one on a number of front for the dogs, one, it gets him interested in us, two, it gives him a good feeling to be round us and three, it eases his mind about coming into our space which is a huge one for dogs that have been disciplined for jumping up or mouthing as pups,

 

so there are a lot of variables as to why a dog wont do what we expect, for saluki bred dog he may be only stimulated by the chase ,

the thing is bud you know the dog better than anyone , use whatever motivates him to your advantage, you can of course build interest in an item by curtailing his access to using his drive else where ,keeping him on a long line or lead and only letting him have access to an item when you want ,with no other avenue to use his drive whatever item you want him to focus on will become very attractive to him after a while,,sorry it got so long winded but things are never that straight forward with dogs , best of luck,

Edited April 10, 2012 by Casso

[J.DOG 1,355]

Right well my lurcher is 20 months saluki type.

 

He was spot on good recall ect

 

But lately he wont retrieve he will either run it catch it leave it or bring it in about 9 feet away and drop it , I dont know why he's doing this it's only me and him no other dogs or distractions.

 

Any help would be great

 

Thanks JD

its hard to know whats going on in situations like the one your having with the dog, but the first thing i always look for in a doggy problem is "whats in it for the dog" by that i mean what the motivation for the act of bringing back the item,

also is the dog distracted where this is happening and whats your relationship like with the dog??

 

for the first one, praise and treats seem to be the most widely used method for the retrieve on this site, praise is good if you have a good understanding between you and the mutt and are not dishing out praise left , right and center otherwise,

and treats are good for a food driven hungry dog, but for some dogs they just like to be in drive , its the feeling they get when hunting and it feels great for them, that been the ultimate motivation for a driven dog,

some dogs just dont equate the energy output for a lot of the things we want them to do as worthwhile,if it doesn't tap in to their drive energy

 

so we need to equate bringing back an item to us as a chance to chase for another item , we need two items for this and the ability to be able to stimulate his drive with the other item and this is where your relationship with the dogs comes in, if we have been overly dominant with the dog we may not be able to rouse his interest and the dog will tunes us out,

because he just dont associate been in drive and been round us because every other time he's in drive he is running away from us

 

i know a lot of lurchers owners dislike the word play where their dog is concerned, but its a huge one on a number of front for the dogs, one, it gets him interested in us, two, it gives him a good feeling to be round us and three, it eases his mind about coming into our space which is a huge one for dogs that have been disciplined for jumping up or mouthing as pups,

 

so there are a lot of variables as to why a dog wont do what we expect, for saluki bred dog he may be only stimulated by the chase ,

the thing is bud you know the dog better than anyone , use whatever motivates him to your advantage, you can of course build interest in an item by curtailing his access to using his drive else where ,keeping him on a long line or lead and only letting him have access to an item when you want ,with no other avenue to use his drive whatever item you want him to focus on will become very attractive to him after a while,,sorry it got so long winded but things are never that straight forward with dogs , best of luck,

 

 

Thanks mate that was really helpful

 

Well, my land is 25 acres and we walk it everyday the only distractions are sheep which he goes and greets when we first go out and after that he's not bothered about them.

 

We have a great relationship , he's like my shadow really and is quite clingy he dont like to be left out of things. What I do know is he is all for the chasing loves it , he chases kills it then either carry it a short distance then drop and walk off sniffing loosing intrest it or will bring it 9 feet away and drop it and wonder off . What I did do is call him in when he got his catch and he still dropped short returning to me without the catch. , I think he looses intrest when it's dead , He never used to do this that's whats got me puzzled lol

 

I'll go back to basics and start again, I'll try what you said thanks mate really appreciate the help

 

Atb JD.

[the pikey poacher 1,157]

i always find if they are retriving with in a few feet then drop it and look at you or just stand there with it they want you to go and get it off them DONT DO IT cause if you do he will start stopping father and father away what i do is when he is on his way back walk away from him this ussually puts them right after a few times of doing it play them at there own game so to speak hope this helps

[J.DOG 1,355]

i always find if they are retriving with in a few feet then drop it and look at you or just stand there with it they want you to go and get it off them DONT DO IT cause if you do he will start stopping father and father away what i do is when he is on his way back walk away from him this ussually puts them right after a few times of doing it play them at there own game so to speak hope this helps

 

That's what he does ,I'll give that a go thanks mate

 

Atb JD

[hutch6 550]

I agree with what Casso says: "What is in it for me if I bring it back?"

 

Some folk have a dog that will play fetch all day long, never tire of it and yet they don't understand why the dog drops the toy 10ft from them and then sets off again in expectation of the toy being thrown. The owner when you ask them to think about what they do will state "well i just go pick it up and throw again because the dog loves to fetch it". So the dog drops it away from you and runs off leaving you to go mug it and "reward" the dog for this by throwing the toy again. Penny drops.

 

I've tried everything with my Saluki cross that I've tried with all of the dogs that have passed through my doors - throwing it, waggling it about in front of the dog, rolling a ball away, running away from the dog and when the dog gets near just tossing the toy a few feet in front of the dog - nothing. Balls, frisbees, sticks, tug toys and anything else, she just wasn't bothered. If one of the other dogs had it then it became the most prized possession - a solution plan was hatched.

 

I grabbed the 3ft tug rope and got my collies going with it (doesn't take much) and before long she was snooping over to see what all the fuss was about. I had the middle with a collie on either end so I pulled them over in her direction and then let go. Immediately she latched on to the middle of the rope and was determined to have the toy for herself. Of course the collies being gentlemen allowed her to have it and she ran off with it - step one ticked off - the right tool for the job

 

I mugged the tug toy from her treasure trove at the top of the garden and immediately the collies were latched on again, I pulled them towards her and then let go. She latched on to the middle again. The first collie let go so whilst my workhorse collie was in heated battle with her I grabbed the spare end. Once I had a hold I gave the "that'll do" to the collie and he let go leaving just her latched on. We had a good tussle for a few minutes with her shaking her head and going side to side to break my grip but I didn't give way. I could see her eyes looking like black dinner plates so it was time to end the game and really wind her up. I asked her to drop whilst offering her a bit of hotdog. She dropped and got the hotdog and the toy was put out of reach, much to her disgust - step 2 ticked off - the game is on.

 

A few minutes later when all of the dogs were inside again, and she had been pining after the toy for a minute of so, I asked her outside and brought the tug toy. As soon as it was offered she latched on. We pulled, we tugged and we shook each other in battle. I like to make play exciting so I charged about with her on the other end of it doing her best to try and stop me getting away with it, I dropped to my knees, leant in to her and growled - she growled back and pulled harder. We must have been locked in battle for a while as my hand was cramping up. I asked her to drop but she was having none of it. I offered her more hotdog and this did nothing to break her determination. I gently pressed her top lip against her teeth and she dropped her relentless crusade. I rewarded her put the toy away again. Step 3 well and truly ticked off - the game is fun and challenging

 

Over the next week or so she was walked on a long line (15m) and I would carry a smaller tug toy in my pocket and some hotdog pieces. I would recall her and reward her with either a piece of hot dog or a game of tug. Sometimes I would walk a couple of hundred metres were her attached to the toy whereas before she would be hunting up and not really paying attention. She was definitely getting more and more switched on. As soon as she was latched on, the very instant the toy was in her mouth I'd say "I want that!" and the tug game would commence. I made sure I started and finished the game at all times though and the game never got the point where she would refuse the toy. Step 4 ticked off - distractions are background noise.

 

Eventually, Thursday/Friday last week, I got the toy out of my pocket; she went for it so I pulled it away. I then dropped to my knees and invited her to go for the toy. As soon as she motioned towards it I dropped it right in front of me but never really took my hand away from it. When she latched on she was verbally praised and I lifted my hand so the toy was at the same height as before. I asked her to drop and she did. I then moved the toy along the floor and around my back etc and she was following it so I would move it an arm’s length away from me and as she was going for it I would say "I want that!" and grab one end to start the game of tug. She was asked to drop and this continued about another two times before we resumed walking again with the toy going straight in my pocket.

After walking for 10mins I would get the toy out, if she showed interest then I would do another 4 or 5 reps of the same thing.

The next day the first set of reps was done the same but for the last two on the 2nd set I would toss the toy slightly further than arms reach. As she went for it I would say "I want that" and she would turn her head towards me which would bring the toy within reach again and the game of tug ensued.

 

I then decided to take a leap of faith with her so we ventured out without the other two dogs. I let out all of the 15m line and placed my foot on the handle making sure she had the full 15m to play with without risk of being jerked or unintentionally corrected. I got her involved in a game of tug for a bit, asked her to drop, wafted the toy about a bit and then underarm threw it about 10ft away. She immediately dashed after it, over shot it, slid on her arse for a bit, gathered herself up and dashed back for it - her eyes locked on to it all the time - picked it up and stood there with it. "I want that!" and she came a bit closer. I picked up the lead and begin to gently put a bit of pressure on her to come to me. "I want that!" and she came bounding back but was going to over shoot me. I grabbed the toy, spun around with her and started another game of tug.

 

This went on for the majority of the walk with a bit of a rest in between but she was getting to need less and less coaxing with the lead to return. Another session the day after had her going so far for it I didn't need to stand on the other end of the lead as she was clearing 20m and returning for a game of tug. All of this was taking place on a golf fairway so the toy could be seen so we moved closer to the rough and she would charge into the longer stuff with the toy out of sight and return. I knew then she was "snowballing" with the game so it was just a case of mixing it up. I am now at the point where I can lob the toy whilst I have hold of her, wait a few seconds and release her where she goes at a decent 40% pace, collects it and brings it back. I have had her retrieving a rabbit furred dummy already but she tends to want to rip the fur off more than anything, will fetch a bare dummy on its own no bother so the weight isn't an issue but I now have to make sure there is a rewarding result upon her return - in her case it is a game of tug

 

If I throw it and she doesn't return it for whatever reason the game is stopped and the toy is put away with minimal fuss and we just walk for a bit and then I move my hand towards my pocket where the toy is, if she looks up then we play if she doesn't then I allow the toy to drop in front of her face a bit but if she shows zero interest then the toy is put away again. I am finding that the sessions before she gets distracted by something are becoming longer and longer and the gaps between the last session and the next are getting shorter and shorter so I know it is sinking in and she is working out what her job is and it's fun for her too. She even took one of my socks off of the radiator and brought it to me last night instead of hording it somewhere i.e. the top of the garden. I watched her do it and was amazed to see her come straight to me with it.

 

Oh, a tip to try which I forgot to mention I did with her was, when she picked it up I would start to run backwards facing her so she would come to me with it and when she was within reach I would have a game of tug with her, this started her learning to retrieve to hand.

 

Here are some clips of the work so far after only three real sessions of actual fetch from scratch, if I've managed to work this out correctly:

 

 

Edited April 10, 2012 by hutch6

[J.DOG 1,355]

I agree with what Casso says: "What is in it for me if I bring it back?"

 

Some folk have a dog that will play fetch all day long, never tire of it and yet they don't understand why the dog drops the toy 10ft from them and then sets off again in expectation of the toy being thrown. The owner when you ask them to think about what they do will state "well i just go pick it up and throw again because the dog loves to fetch it". So the dog drops it away from you and runs off leaving you to go mug it and "reward" the dog for this by throwing the toy again. Penny drops.

 

I've tried everything with my Saluki cross that I've tried with all of the dogs that have passed through my doors - throwing it, waggling it about in front of the dog, rolling a ball away, running away from the dog and when the dog gets near just tossing the toy a few feet in front of the dog - nothing. Balls, frisbees, sticks, tug toys and anything else, she just wasn't bothered. If one of the other dogs had it then it became the most prized possession - a solution plan was hatched.

 

I grabbed the 3ft tug rope and got my collies going with it (doesn't take much) and before long she was snooping over to see what all the fuss was about. I had the middle with a collie on either end so I pulled them over in her direction and then let go. Immediately she latched on to the middle of the rope and was determined to have the toy for herself. Of course the collies being gentlemen allowed her to have it and she ran off with it - step one ticked off - the right tool for the job

 

I mugged the tug toy from her treasure trove at the top of the garden and immediately the collies were latched on again, I pulled them towards her and then let go. She latched on to the middle again. The first collie let go so whilst my workhorse collie was in heated battle with her I grabbed the spare end. Once I had a hold I gave the "that'll do" to the collie and he let go leaving just her latched on. We had a good tussle for a few minutes with her shaking her head and going side to side to break my grip but I didn't give way. I could see her eyes looking like black dinner plates so it was time to end the game and really wind her up. I asked her to drop whilst offering her a bit of hotdog. She dropped and got the hotdog and the toy was put out of reach, much to her disgust - step 2 ticked off - the game is on.

 

A few minutes later when all of the dogs were inside again, and she had been pining after the toy for a minute of so, I asked her outside and brought the tug toy. As soon as it was offered she latched on. We pulled, we tugged and we shook each other in battle. I like to make play exciting so I charged about with her on the other end of it doing her best to try and stop me getting away with it, I dropped to my knees, leant in to her and growled - she growled back and pulled harder. We must have been locked in battle for a while as my hand was cramping up. I asked her to drop but she was having none of it. I offered her more hotdog and this did nothing to break her determination. I gently pressed her top lip against her teeth and she dropped her relentless crusade. I rewarded her put the toy away again. Step 3 well and truly ticked off - the game is fun and challenging

 

Over the next week or so she was walked on a long line (15m) and I would carry a smaller tug toy in my pocket and some hotdog pieces. I would recall her and reward her with either a piece of hot dog or a game of tug. Sometimes I would walk a couple of hundred metres were her attached to the toy whereas before she would be hunting up and not really paying attention. She was definitely getting more and more switched on. As soon as she was latched on, the very instant the toy was in her mouth I'd say "I want that!" and the tug game would commence. I made sure I started and finished the game at all times though and the game never got the point where she would refuse the toy. Step 4 ticked off - distractions are background noise.

 

Eventually, Thursday/Friday last week, I got the toy out of my pocket; she went for it so I pulled it away. I then dropped to my knees and invited her to go for the toy. As soon as she motioned towards it I dropped it right in front of me but never really took my hand away from it. When she latched on she was verbally praised and I lifted my hand so the toy was at the same height as before. I asked her to drop and she did. I then moved the toy along the floor and around my back etc and she was following it so I would move it an arm’s length away from me and as she was going for it I would say "I want that!" and grab one end to start the game of tug. She was asked to drop and this continued about another two times before we resumed walking again with the toy going straight in my pocket.

After walking for 10mins I would get the toy out, if she showed interest then I would do another 4 or 5 reps of the same thing.

The next day the first set of reps was done the same but for the last two on the 2nd set I would toss the toy slightly further than arms reach. As she went for it I would say "I want that" and she would turn her head towards me which would bring the toy within reach again and the game of tug ensued.

 

I then decided to take a leap of faith with her so we ventured out without the other two dogs. I let out all of the 15m line and placed my foot on the handle making sure she had the full 15m to play with without risk of being jerked or unintentionally corrected. I got her involved in a game of tug for a bit, asked her to drop, wafted the toy about a bit and then underarm threw it about 10ft away. She immediately dashed after it, over shot it, slid on her arse for a bit, gathered herself up and dashed back for it - her eyes locked on to it all the time - picked it up and stood there with it. "I want that!" and she came a bit closer. I picked up the lead and begin to gently put a bit of pressure on her to come to me. "I want that!" and she came bounding back but was going to over shoot me. I grabbed the toy, spun around with her and started another game of tug.

 

This went on for the majority of the walk with a bit of a rest in between but she was getting to need less and less coaxing with the lead to return. Another session the day after had her going so far for it I didn't need to stand on the other end of the lead as she was clearing 20m and returning for a game of tug. All of this was taking place on a golf fairway so the toy could be seen so we moved closer to the rough and she would charge into the longer stuff with the toy out of sight and return. I knew then she was "snowballing" with the game so it was just a case of mixing it up. I am now at the point where I can lob the toy whilst I have hold of her, wait a few seconds and release her where she goes at a decent 40% pace, collects it and brings it back. I have had her retrieving a rabbit furred dummy already but she tends to want to rip the fur off more than anything, will fetch a bare dummy on its own no bother so the weight isn't an issue but I now have to make sure there is a rewarding result upon her return - in her case it is a game of tug

 

If I throw it and she doesn't return it for whatever reason the game is stopped and the toy is put away with minimal fuss and we just walk for a bit and then I move my hand towards my pocket where the toy is, if she looks up then we play if she doesn't then I allow the toy to drop in front of her face a bit but if she shows zero interest then the toy is put away again. I am finding that the sessions before she gets distracted by something are becoming longer and longer and the gaps between the last session and the next are getting shorter and shorter so I know it is sinking in and she is working out what her job is and it's fun for her too. She even took one of my socks off of the radiator and brought it to me last night instead of hording it somewhere i.e. the top of the garden. I watched her do it and was amazed to see her come straight to me with it.

 

Oh, a tip to try which I forgot to mention I did with her was, when she picked it up I would start to run backwards facing her so she would come to me with it and when she was within reach I would have a game of tug with her, this started her learning to retrieve to hand.

 

Here are some clips of the work so far after only three real sessions of actual fetch from scratch, if I've managed to work this out correctly:

 

 

 

Wow that's a great help mate thank you for taking the time to write that for me.

 

I'm defo gona try what you said , as I think that may work with my dog.

 

Thanks mate your dog looks cracking and seems to be doing well atb mate JD

[hutch6 550]

Wow that's a great help mate thank you for taking the time to write that for me.

 

I'm defo gona try what you said , as I think that may work with my dog.

 

Thanks mate your dog looks cracking and seems to be doing well atb mate JD

 

Cheers chief, she's a nutter but by god she makes me laugh.

[skycat 6,173]

Some great advice there hutch It's all about interacting with the dog in a way which rewards the dog for the right behaviour. There's no need for strict commands: do this, do that, because you are training the dog in a way that taps into its natural drive and behaviour.

[J.DOG 1,355]

Some great advice there hutch It's all about interacting with the dog in a way which rewards the dog for the right behaviour. There's no need for strict commands: do this, do that, because you are training the dog in a way that taps into its natural drive and behaviour.

 

Yep , I'm gona take my time and get it right there's no rush

 

Thanks for the advice everyone atb JD

[keeganrees 196]

great advice that i have alo taken on board.. im having simular problems but my pup is only 7 months but she does love a good old tug soo i shall try this.. but also read artical by skycat few weeks back about teething also think may have something to do with it as she used to be perfect know runs past to chew

[fieldsman 51]

Just turn and walk away the dog will try and present it in front of you it may take a few to get it right but it will click