I.W.T.F. (CLUB) and clubs....

[neil cooney 10,416]

Like any club that fights for fieldsports I will support it.

The anti's are already organised and we're only starting.

But like I said before a new club has to pack a punch from the word go.

Looking for affiliation to the C.A. , letter writting and good public relations are all something that has to be done straight away. Unless we have good speakers, good letter writers and good sportsmen who are to our fore the antis will tear us apart with their lies.

Phillpott seems to be a bit quiet of late but that wont last. You can bet your life savings he's planning of parting some terrierman and his much loved terriers as we speak.

So like I said before I'd be one very happy man if in a couple of years Stop End can laugh at me and say "I told you so."

 

And I hate to say this but this Summer will probably not be plain sailing for the terrier men South of the border too.

[tillearthdouspart 100]

Lads when a club starts up how does the average joe like myself no bout this. Terriermen who dont have such good contacts dont go to the shows and so on??? Cause the more members the better I no its abit away from this stage at the moment.

[stop.end 4,079]

 

Like any club that fights for fieldsports I will support it.
The anti's are already organised and we're only starting.
But like I said before a new club has to pack a punch from the word go.
Looking for affiliation to the C.A. , letter writting and good public relations are all something that has to be done straight away. Unless we have good speakers, good letter writers and good sportsmen who are to our fore the antis will tear us apart with their lies.
Phillpott seems to be a bit quiet of late but that wont last. You can bet your life savings he's planning of parting some terrierman and his much loved terriers as we speak.
So like I said before I'd be one very happy man if in a couple of years Stop End can laugh at me and say "I told you so."

And I hate to say this but this Summer will probably not be plain sailing for the terrier men South of the border too.

Edited April 16, 2013 by stop.end

[Corkman 944]

Hi Stop End. I commend your efforts so far in getting the discussion going on this extremely important subject and getting up off of your proverbial’s to get a Federation up and running where many including myself often just thought about it. I have been following this thread for a few days now with great interest and a little dismay along the way too! On your first post you asked for some input so here is mine for what it is worth? Please note you will get all sorts input (constructive and destructive) along this journey and hopefully your efforts with some help will come to fruition. Please note anything I say below is meant as constructive criticism and take only what benefits the greater good from it.

There has been some great feedback from Bryan, PD3, Barrie, Neil, Sammc and others. IMO it would be wise to take a little piece of knowledge and experience from all people even if it may appear at times as a personnel attack. From reading their threads, even the argumentative ones, there were little parcels of reality to some!!

Firstly to start, set out with set out the realistic goals and aims of this federation for a talk shop like many other of the hunting organisations would soon loose support.

Suggestions as follows:

1) A (suitable) leadership that will work towards successful affiliation of the IWTF (or whatever it’s called) to in wider hunting organisations. In the North the C.A. in the South HAI & RISE. Also Affiliations with Shooting, Fishing, Gundog, Coursing Clubs, Hawking, etc, etc for “United we stand - Divided we fall”.

2) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to Government representatives and negotiate on our behalf. We need the best and brightest to represent us. This may not be the best terrier man with the best terriers but the right person for "this" job. As I say diplomacy is the art of leaving someone else have your way!!

3) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to the other affiliated hunting organisations some of which would happily throw terrier work to the wolves – FACT.

4) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to the media and have the savvy to know not to be drawn out by the ANTI’s into a public war where the lies start. This organisation should be low profile and "not" in your face providing a target for the ANTI's. A Bryan said the hand cannot hit what the hand cant see. IMO there is a need for IWTF voice but a subtle one.........

5) A Federation that is inclusive "but" selective. Terrier work means many things to many people. We have the diehard earth dog man and we also terrier men (& women) that enjoy ratting, rabbiting and general bushing etc. As mentioned above by SAMMC politicians looks at numbers. To them numbers = votes lost or pain from responding to many, many phones calls meeting, letters, emails from pro-hunting people in our case terrier men, women and children. Less of the elitism!

6) A Federation that will support and encourage youths in the art of terrier work and ensure they are taught the correct way to carry out hunting in a suitable manner. Teach them the country codes.

7) A Federation that will be constantly reviewing proposed Government legislation and ensure its members are kept fully aware of any proposals they may affect our beloved sports. I believe this is where we currently fall down. The majority are totally uniformed.

A Federation that is actively monitoring the ANTI’s and combating their continuous stream of deluded propaganda. We can keep them down by not feeding them amunition.

9) For me a major goal is a Federation that continues to promote working terriers, working lines, educating members on breeding types and programs. Provide a network of like minded individuals.

10) A Federation with a committee to suspend or ban unsuitable characters from bringing the Federation in to disrepute. This includes (my pet hate) a lot of the carry on this Website for I believe some characters on these types of websites with stupid, ignorant “PUBLIC” conversations and loading pictures although maybe innocent can be used against us in the wrong context. Quite sad that people cannot realise the damage they are doing? I have seen this happen and used on ANTI websites??

11) A Federation that promotes Terrier work at game fairs and actively increases membership of the “Right” people to the Federation. This may include working terrier shows (If you don’t like them then don’t attend) that would provide further funding to run the organisation.

12) A Federation that creates a brand and identity and more importantly a voice for the common terrier man, women and child.

 

This Federation leadership as mentioned by Neil better be squeaky clean from the word go!! Lead by good example and not provide added ammunition to ANTI’s and other hunting Orgs that hunting people (our so called own) already do on a daily basis on THL etc. IMO a separate (but conjoined) Federation would be required for the ROI due to the different legislation. Apologies for the rant but I am a small bit passionate about this game. If is worth doing it is worth doing well!

 

P.S. IMO if the terrier folk get our act together I imagine the C.A., HAI, RISE, etc would welcome us!! FYI... I have a bit of insight and contacts in to the latter two above.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Corkman

[stop.end 4,079]

Hi Stop End. I commend your efforts so far in getting the discussion going on this extremely important subject and getting up off of your proverbial’s to get a Federation up and running where many including myself often just thought about it. I have been following this thread for a few days now with great interest and a little dismay along the way too! On your first post you asked for some input so here is mine for what it is worth? Please note you will get all sorts input (constructive and destructive) along this journey and hopefully your efforts with some help will come to fruition. Please note anything I say below is meant as constructive criticism and take only what benefits the greater good from it.

There has been some great feedback from Bryan, PD3, Barrie, Neil, Sammc and others. IMO it would be wise to take a little piece of knowledge and experience from all people even if it may appear at times as a personnel attack. From reading their threads, even the argumentative ones, there were little parcels of reality to some!!

Firstly to start, set out with set out the realistic goals and aims of this federation for a talk shop like many other of the hunting organisations would soon loose support.

Suggestions as follows:

1) A (suitable) leadership that will work towards successful affiliation of the IWTF (or whatever it’s called) to in wider hunting organisations. In the North the C.A. in the South HAI & RISE. Also Affiliations with Shooting, Fishing, Gundog, Coursing Clubs, Hawking, etc, etc for “United we stand - Divided we fall”.

2) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to Government representatives and negotiate on our behalf. We need the best and brightest to represent us. This may not be the best terrier man with the best terriers but the right person for "this" job. As I say diplomacy is the art of leaving someone else have your way!!

3) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to the other affiliated hunting organisations some of which would happily throw terrier work to the wolves – FACT.

4) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to the media and have the savvy to know not to be drawn out by the ANTI’s into a public war where the lies start. This organisation should be low profile and "not" in your face providing a target for the ANTI's. A Bryan said the hand cannot hit what the hand cant see. IMO there is a need for IWTF voice but a subtle one.........

5) A Federation that is inclusive "but" selective. Terrier work means many things to many people. We have the diehard earth dog man and we also terrier men (& women) that enjoy ratting, rabbiting and general bushing etc. As mentioned above by SAMMC politicians looks at numbers. To them numbers = votes lost or pain from responding to many, many phones calls meeting, letters, emails from pro-hunting people in our case terrier men, women and children. Less of the elitism!

6) A Federation that will support and encourage youths in the art of terrier work and ensure they are taught the correct way to carry out hunting in a suitable manner. Teach them the country codes.

7) A Federation that will be constantly reviewing proposed Government legislation and ensure its members are kept fully aware of any proposals they may affect our beloved sports. I believe this is where we currently fall down. The majority are totally uniformed.

A Federation that is actively monitoring the ANTI’s and combating their continuous stream of deluded propaganda. We can keep them down by not feeding them amunition.

9) For me a major goal is a Federation that continues to promote working terriers, working lines, educating members on breeding types and programs. Provide a network of like minded individuals.

10) A Federation with a committee to suspend or ban unsuitable characters from bringing the Federation in to disrepute. This includes (my pet hate) a lot of the carry on this Website for I believe some characters on these types of websites with stupid, ignorant “PUBLIC” conversations and loading pictures although maybe innocent can be used against us in the wrong context. Quite sad that people cannot realise the damage they are doing? I have seen this happen and used on ANTI websites??

11) A Federation that promotes Terrier work at game fairs and actively increases membership of the “Right” people to the Federation. This may include working terrier shows (If you don’t like them then don’t attend) that would provide further funding to run the organisation.

12) A Federation that creates a brand and identity and more importantly a voice for the common terrier man, women and child.

 

This Federation leadership as mentioned by Neil better be squeaky clean from the word go!! Lead by good example and not provide added ammunition to ANTI’s and other hunting Orgs that hunting people (our so called own) already do on a daily basis on THL etc. IMO a separate (but conjoined) Federation would be required for the ROI due to the different legislation. Apologies for the rant but I am a small bit passionate about this game. If is worth doing it is worth doing well!

 

P.S. IMO if the terrier folk get our act together I imagine the C.A., HAI, RISE, etc would welcome us!! FYI... I have a bit of insight and contacts in to the latter two above.

noted on all...and of course you are 100% right in most of your thread....lol...its about time yous all started too talk....see now we are heading in the right direction...and yes if you had of spoke to mee then you would have found that of course we need the brighteset articulated men for the job and hopefully this forum has brought these men out of the woodwork.... it was only ever my intention to put actions too words not talk and nothing ever get done... was never my intention to pull on a suit and go to stormont lol ... but more show support for the man ready to represent the federation or what ever.... as said only ever wanted to be a member...of the I.W.T.F. and have an umberella club in our own area to represent the legitament terrier folk....and a united and sensible approach to ANTIs slander and media propaganda..... .... now as said the draught is more to let the public know how proper terrier work is conducted...not too try too tell any terrier man...because we already know how to conduct ourselves...granted sometimes not on the thl....which most eyes are actually on us... and not when we are carrying out pest control....as said draught was mnot meant too upset anyone more too have something too mull over...so changes and steps in the right direction could be taken.... and anyone who thinks i have just thought this stuff up in the last year or so is just a little silly and niave.....JMHO.... maybe if we get the chance to talk you will know i am going in the same direction with the same goals with what i could say ...just a tad more passion ... otherwise we would all still just be saying ...hmmm i think ireland needs a working terrier voice..... as far as im concerned this should have been done years ago..... YIS mark..

[Hepher 86]

YOU WON'T GET MANY PPL FROM THE NORTH OF THE COUNTRY JOINING AFTER THE PRESS THAT HAS BEEN AFFORDED TO TERRIER WORK THIS PAST 8 WEEKS. PERSONALLY NO ONE CAN TRUST ANYONE HERE AT THE MOMENT. 99% OF TERRIERMEN HERE STAY WITHIN THE LAW, BUT WHEN YA HAVE THE USPCA PAYING A SCOTTISH VET TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT WE ARE UP AGAINST IT. 1 PICTURE I SEEN ON THE NEWS WAS CLEARLY PHOTOSHOPPED, REASON I KNOW THIS IS BECAUSE IT WAS A PIC OF MY DOG TAKEN OFF THIS SITE AND THEY SAID THEY WERE PICTURES THAT WERE GOT FROM LOCAL CHEMISTS AND HAD BEEN LEFT IN TO GET DEVELOPED. LIES, LIES, LIES. I DO TERRIERWORK FOR A LOCAL SHOOT, THE USPCA ARE DAMAGING MY LIVELYHOOD AND POTENTIALLY PUTTIN ME ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT LIST!! HOW MUCH LONGER WILL IT BE BEFORE THEY HAVE THE GENERAL PUBLIC TOTALLY BRAINWASHED AND BAN ALL HUNTING WITH DOGS IN THE NORTH OF THIS COUNTRY? HOW CAN MR PHILPOTT LIVE THE LIFESTYLE HE LIVES DRIVING THE VEHICLES HE DRIVES AND HE ONLY WORKS FOR A VOLUNTARY ORGANISATION THAT RELIES ON DONATIONS TO EXIST??? THERE'S TOO MUCH MISTRUST AND INFILTRATION IN THE TERRIER GAME HERE AT THE MINUTE TO SET UP ANY KIND OF TERRIER CLUB, IMHO.

hepher.

[Barrie 1,325]

Hi Stop End. I commend your efforts so far in getting the discussion going on this extremely important subject and getting up off of your proverbial’s to get a Federation up and running where many including myself often just thought about it. I have been following this thread for a few days now with great interest and a little dismay along the way too! On your first post you asked for some input so here is mine for what it is worth? Please note you will get all sorts input (constructive and destructive) along this journey and hopefully your efforts with some help will come to fruition. Please note anything I say below is meant as constructive criticism and take only what benefits the greater good from it.

There has been some great feedback from Bryan, PD3, Barrie, Neil, Sammc and others. IMO it would be wise to take a little piece of knowledge and experience from all people even if it may appear at times as a personnel attack. From reading their threads, even the argumentative ones, there were little parcels of reality to some!!

Firstly to start, set out with set out the realistic goals and aims of this federation for a talk shop like many other of the hunting organisations would soon loose support.

Suggestions as follows:

1) A (suitable) leadership that will work towards successful affiliation of the IWTF (or whatever it’s called) to in wider hunting organisations. In the North the C.A. in the South HAI & RISE. Also Affiliations with Shooting, Fishing, Gundog, Coursing Clubs, Hawking, etc, etc for “United we stand - Divided we fall”.

2) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to Government representatives and negotiate on our behalf. We need the best and brightest to represent us. This may not be the best terrier man with the best terriers but the right person for "this" job. As I say diplomacy is the art of leaving someone else have your way!!

3) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to the other affiliated hunting organisations some of which would happily throw terrier work to the wolves – FACT.

4) A Federation leadership that will be able to successfully articulate the necessity and value of terrier work to the media and have the savvy to know not to be drawn out by the ANTI’s into a public war where the lies start. This organisation should be low profile and "not" in your face providing a target for the ANTI's. A Bryan said the hand cannot hit what the hand cant see. IMO there is a need for IWTF voice but a subtle one.........

5) A Federation that is inclusive "but" selective. Terrier work means many things to many people. We have the diehard earth dog man and we also terrier men (& women) that enjoy ratting, rabbiting and general bushing etc. As mentioned above by SAMMC politicians looks at numbers. To them numbers = votes lost or pain from responding to many, many phones calls meeting, letters, emails from pro-hunting people in our case terrier men, women and children. Less of the elitism!

6) A Federation that will support and encourage youths in the art of terrier work and ensure they are taught the correct way to carry out hunting in a suitable manner. Teach them the country codes.

7) A Federation that will be constantly reviewing proposed Government legislation and ensure its members are kept fully aware of any proposals they may affect our beloved sports. I believe this is where we currently fall down. The majority are totally uniformed.

A Federation that is actively monitoring the ANTI’s and combating their continuous stream of deluded propaganda. We can keep them down by not feeding them amunition.

9) For me a major goal is a Federation that continues to promote working terriers, working lines, educating members on breeding types and programs. Provide a network of like minded individuals.

10) A Federation with a committee to suspend or ban unsuitable characters from bringing the Federation in to disrepute. This includes (my pet hate) a lot of the carry on this Website for I believe some characters on these types of websites with stupid, ignorant “PUBLIC” conversations and loading pictures although maybe innocent can be used against us in the wrong context. Quite sad that people cannot realise the damage they are doing? I have seen this happen and used on ANTI websites??

11) A Federation that promotes Terrier work at game fairs and actively increases membership of the “Right” people to the Federation. This may include working terrier shows (If you don’t like them then don’t attend) that would provide further funding to run the organisation.

12) A Federation that creates a brand and identity and more importantly a voice for the common terrier man, women and child.

 

This Federation leadership as mentioned by Neil better be squeaky clean from the word go!! Lead by good example and not provide added ammunition to ANTI’s and other hunting Orgs that hunting people (our so called own) already do on a daily basis on THL etc. IMO a separate (but conjoined) Federation would be required for the ROI due to the different legislation. Apologies for the rant but I am a small bit passionate about this game. If is worth doing it is worth doing well!

 

P.S. IMO if the terrier folk get our act together I imagine the C.A., HAI, RISE, etc would welcome us!! FYI... I have a bit of insight and contacts in to the latter two above.

 

WOW Corkman.......... what a post, I take my hat off to you Sir.

 

You conclude with the words "IMO if the terrier folk get our act together I imagine the C.A., HAI, RISE, etc would welcome us!! FYI... I have a bit of insight and contacts in to the latter two above" , I suspect the truth is that you've a LOT MORE than just a "little" insight.

 

Your post is written with the style and knowledge of a man who's trod every step of the way those of us involved with the NWTF have learnt to over the past 28 years.

 

Thank you

Edited April 21, 2012 by Barrie

[Corkman 944]

Hi Barrie, thanks your kind words. A few years back when I didn't like what I was seeing or hearing from some of the hunting orgs in Ireland I picked up the phone and wrote a few strong worded but constructive emails right to the TOP. Interestingly enough rather than being castigated for my comments a few particular individuals liked what they read and took my comments on board. Still a work in progress..... So I went from a place of somewhat ignorance (although fairly clued in) to being kept somewhat well informed and also gaining some notable contacts along the way. When asked to help I did and even led a deligation of hunting men to meet various local politicians prior to recent legislation being put in to law. An enlightenening experience!! I even got a chance to provide comments on draft legislation before the people at the top went to meet government officials and ministers.

What I am trying to say is that if we conduct ourselves in the right manner as individuals and some acceptance is obtained then imagine what could be acheived as a like minded group.

Keep the ball rolling stopend. IMO start small with only vouched terrier men or women and grow it from their protecting yourselves from the Antis.

In reply to Hepher. I understand your prediciment. I often joked that you would need a degree in politics down this way to negotiate the minefield that is the paranioa of a terrierman?? As PD3 stated we are all half mad to begin with! But I know if the USPCA did to me what they did to you I wouldn't let it go! Now just imagine if you were part of a Federation that stood up for your rights as a member and had the clout of many many afiliated hunting groups and were able to take on the self appointed might and idealogy (theirs not ours) to show them up for what they really are........ That would be intereting. What are the current alternatives. None.

[neil cooney 10,416]

Wise words indeed Corkman.

Regarding what you say about selecting vouched for and well known terriermen. IMO those who sit on a commitee of any club will be or at least should be nominated and seconded by other chosen commitee members BUT as far as anyone who wants to join a club IMO it should be open to all.

What's needed is numbers. The more the better. If the anti's want to try and sneek into a club by paying their membership then so be it. They'll find out what's happening anyway and we've nothing to hide.

To fight any legislation in the future that could endanger terrier work we need to show that terrier work has a loud, powerfull voice. Like I say, we need to show strenght in numbers.

YES, keep the commitees clean but membership should be open to all and everyone.

I never sat on a horse but I'm a member of the H.A.I.

[stop.end 4,079]

l

Edited April 16, 2013 by stop.end

[Corkman 944]

Neil, I totally agree with you! Please read my previous post on saturday. Extract below.

 

5) A Federation that is inclusive "but" selective. Terrier work means many things to many people. We have the diehard earth dog man and we also terrier men (& women) that enjoy ratting, rabbiting and general bushing etc. As mentioned above by SAMMC politicians looks at numbers. To them numbers = votes lost or pain from responding to many, many phones calls meeting, letters, emails from pro-hunting people in our case terrier men, women and children. Less of the elitism!

 

A point of interest with regards to the HAI of which I too am fully paid up since it started. If you are not a member of a so called "registered" hunting club then you have absolutely no say in the HAI. I choose not to be a member of such clubs anymore as I am too busy with my terriers. Therefore any what I called associatative member of the HAI's money is paid to a different section HAI Ltd. As a paid member you cannot even attend the AGM?? A lot of people do not realise this fact. This is were the elitism kicks in!! IMHO

 

Nearly forgot point no. 3 nearly happened a few years back when our crowd were dealing with Tony Gregory..

[Jack.308 40]

Hi im looking to get to no some good terriermen who do it properly and learn the tricks of the trade im 16 and just got hold of my first pattlerdale terrier please add me as a friend and give me some good advice manythanks

[Barrie 1,325]

Hi Barrie, thanks your kind words. A few years back when I didn't like what I was seeing or hearing from some of the hunting orgs in Ireland I picked up the phone and wrote a few strong worded but constructive emails right to the TOP. Interestingly enough rather than being castigated for my comments a few particular individuals liked what they read and took my comments on board. Still a work in progress.....

 

We have indeed trod the same path.... in fact so similar that it's almost eery.

 

Regards - B

[Barrie 1,325]

IMO those who sit on a commitee of any club will be or at least should be nominated and seconded by other chosen commitee members

 

Hi Neil

 

I agree entirely, if it's of any help to anyone, this in a nut shell is the way the NWTF operates.....

 

1. Its Members are those Clubs which on an annual basis sign up to and agree to abide by its Rules and Codes of Conduct, and who pay their annual subscription.

2. Its Committee consists of nominated representatives from each of those Clubs in attendance at any meeting.

3. Its Officers (Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary and Treasurer) along with any Area Representatives are all voted in annually at the AGM by those Committee Members (Clubs) in attendance.

4. Meetings are conducted on the basis that contributions are welcomed from all Committee Members (Clubs) in attendance.

5. Any Proposals must have a proposer and seconder (each from separate clubs).

6. Any Voting is conducted on the basis of 1 vote per Member Club in attendance,

 

It works well for us and I genuinely believe that Clubs who attend our meetings feel empowered and part of any decisions which are taken.... I suspect that's very much where you're coming from..

 

Kindest Regards - Barrie

Edited April 22, 2012 by Barrie

[lurcher330 2,297]

this thread is definitely start to head in the right direction,with men like Barrie ,Neil ,Corkman and the determination of stopend to get this up and running ,seems like this could be the beginning of a good thing