I.W.T.F. (CLUB) and clubs....

[MUDD 374]

wish you all the best of luck lads, but i think you should now leave it until you have a meeting to sort out the details, the internets is not the place and this site sure as hell isn't safe

NO Internet site is safe.

Its a small world.

A pm, txt msg or a phonecall doesn't take much effort. Arguing over the net about the in's and out's is pathetic. If your not up for it, leave it at that.

 

[tilfertilfer 706]

hows it going mud atb mel

[Barrie 1,325]

wish you all the best of luck lads, but i think you should now leave it until you have a meeting to sort out the details, the internets is not the place and this site sure as hell isn't safe

NO Internet site is safe.

Its a small world.

A pm, txt msg or a phonecall doesn't take much effort. Arguing over the net about the in's and out's is pathetic. If your not up for it, leave it at that.

 

Wise words Glynn and Mudd….. make no mistake about it, your real enemies who would like to see terrier work banned will be watching this thread just as much as interest as anyone else.

 

Here’s a quote from their own anti terrierwork website “Digging out”…. "Every day we troll through hundreds of posts on hunting forums collecting quotes for use later in our campaign against terrier work. It's quite a dispiriting experience as you feel your own IQ dropping to the level of a BNP supporter, luckily the regular bouts of infighting provide some amusement.”

 

Apart from laughing their heads off at all the constant infighting and bickering, they’ll also be looking for any snippets of information they can use to undermine the I.W.T.F.’s future credibility (or that of any similar type organisation). It would be sensible to try not to do any more of their work for them than you already have.

 

At present the Irish terrier and lurcher owners are not organised in any way shape or form. They’ll have problems enough fighting any harmful legislation that’s thrown at them, without falling out amongst themselves. Hopefully, sooner rather than later, people will wake up to this fact and be able to put their own personal/imaginary differences behind them and concentrate their efforts where they will do most good. Hopefully they’ll also do it before it’s too late.

 

Like it or not, the antis are already streets ahead of you, they’re far more sophisticated and capable…. you’ve got a lot of catching up to do.

 

J.M.H.O. – Barrie

Edited April 15, 2012 by Barrie

[MUDD 374]

Wise words once again Barry.

[neil cooney 10,416]

I agree 100% Barrie.

But who ever will be to the front of any club that's representing terrier work either North or South of the border will be the face and voice that represents their fellow sportsman.

Now if that person or persons hasn't the ability to argue the cause and has in the past posted content that will in any way will add fuel to the Anti fire then the Antis will tear him or her to shreds. Also, will other fieldsports embrace terrier work if terrier work looks shabby.

A new club has to have the ability to pack a punch from the word GO.

When the last Federation was up and running the Anti's put the addresses and telephone numbers up on their sites of myself, the Chairman and the Secretary.

It's not going to be a walk in the park for whoever is chosen to represent their sport and their details are going to be there for all to see and that includes Mr Phillpott. And as we know, he's capable of anything.

So like I said before, it's not about fighting or squabbling within. It's about picking someone to run a club that's fit for the job.

[tullyeyed 90]

i think an all ireland club would be great for our sport, i dont know stop end nor am i prejudging him, but i have to agree with niel cooney, it would need to be an educated and knowlegable person to head the club, looking forward to here more progress

[neil cooney 10,416]

I'd just like to say that firstly IMO a 32 county working terrier club wouldn't work because of different laws etc.

But it's a nice idea.

Secondly I'll join and support any club that fights for my way of life no matter who's involved and I think everyone should but for personal reasons could never get involved in the running of one.

Edited April 15, 2012 by neil cooney

[neil cooney 10,416]

.

Edited April 15, 2012 by neil cooney

[Bryan 1,362]

"The hand can't hit what the eye we can't see"

 

I'm not so sure that Ireland need to follow how things have been done with clubs , organisations and federations in Britain. Ireland had many terrier clubs in the 60's and 70's and an all island association but they were more instrumental in causing a ban on badger digging than anyone else.

 

Ireland has been more successful at preserving the rights to hunt with terriers than any of the British nations? Maybe people should look at why Ireland has been more successful?

 

It's easy to be dismissive of a perceived Irish simplicity in all things and blind to their effectiveness.

Michael Hutchins came to cork 20 years ago to organise hunt saboteurs but ended up hospitalised and Cork without Sabs.

John Tierney brought 21 hard line Sabs from England to Waterford, one was arrested 20 were hospitalised. Waterford has no Sabs.

 

There has always been strong opposition to hunting in Ireland the RSPCA was formed at the same time as anywhere else but never given the same influence, a huntsman sits on at least one of its boards. The Green party in 2 governments gained no ground on terriers, but mobilised a very strong Ad Hoc hunting lobby.

 

In the bigger scheme of things itd be very interesting to know why almost every other country in Europe has more freedom to hunt with terriers rather copying countries which have the least.

Bryan

[liamdelaney 2,586]

"The hand can't hit what the eye we can't see"

 

I'm not so sure that Ireland need to follow how things have been done with clubs , organisations and federations in Britain. Ireland had many terrier clubs in the 60's and 70's and an all island association but they were more instrumental in causing a ban on badger digging than anyone else.

 

Ireland has been more successful at preserving the rights to hunt with terriers than any of the British nations? Maybe people should look at why Ireland has been more successful?

 

It's easy to be dismissive of a perceived Irish simplicity in all things and blind to their effectiveness.

Michael Hutchins came to cork 20 years ago to organise hunt saboteurs but ended up hospitalised and Cork without Sabs.

John Tierney brought 21 hard line Sabs from England to Waterford, one was arrested 20 were hospitalised. Waterford has no Sabs.

 

There has always been strong opposition to hunting in Ireland the RSPCA was formed at the same time as anywhere else but never given the same influence, a huntsman sits on at least one of its boards. The Green party in 2 governments gained no ground on terriers, but mobilised a very strong Ad Hoc hunting lobby.

 

In the bigger scheme of things itd be very interesting to know why almost every other country in Europe has more freedom to hunt with terriers rather copying countries which have the least.

Bryan

You missed one the Galway Blazers put a good few in hospital as well after a conflict of interests in Craughwell Co Galway.

[events co-ordinator 353]

Brilliant concept lets not join together and put up a united front lets all do nothing but watch as it all crumbles round about us I wish we'd thought of that in Scotland BRILLIANT :bye:

[Bryan 1,362]

No, take responsibility for what happens locally. Don't sit back and think any organisation will do more than you can do yourself.

Look to how Ireland has been successful already.

[Barrie 1,325]

I agree 100% Barrie.

But who ever will be to the front of any club that's representing terrier work either North or South of the border will be the face and voice that represents their fellow sportsman.

Now if that person or persons hasn't the ability to argue the cause and has in the past posted content that will in any way will add fuel to the Anti fire then the Antis will tear him or her to shreds. Also, will other fieldsports embrace terrier work if terrier work looks shabby.

A new club has to have the ability to pack a punch from the word GO.

When the last Federation was up and running the Anti's put the addresses and telephone numbers up on their sites of myself, the Chairman and the Secretary.

It's not going to be a walk in the park for whoever is chosen to represent their sport and their details are going to be there for all to see and that includes Mr Phillpott. And as we know, he's capable of anything.

So like I said before, it's not about fighting or squabbling within. It's about picking someone to run a club that's fit for the job.

 

Hi Neil

 

I’d struggle to imagine us ever being anything less than 100% in agreement. And I’m sure that’ll be the case too when I say that if terrier work in Ireland is to have any real chance of long term survival there’s a very genuine need for an NWTF equivalent on that side of the water as well.

 

I think the tail docking issue alone proved that, when in the absence of any strong representation from the Irish working terrier side, the NWTF’s submission (so I’m lead to believe) was pivotal in turning a possible tail docking ban into an exemption.

 

A renewed I.W.T.F. is something I’ve banged on about for some time, but for whatever reason up until now it’s always fallen on deaf ears and I think full credit is due to “Stop end” and others who’ve already done a considerable amount of work behind the scenes towards making that happen.

 

I don’t know many lads on that side of the Pond and certainly none of the participants in these online discussions, I hope we can all go some way towards rectifying that at Ballywalter. However I have been fortunate enough to meet a few of the Irish lads when they’ve visited our stand at the Midland Game Fair etc. To me they seemed mature, sensible, very committed lads and more than capable of standing on their own feet (mind you we are always a long way from the beer tent).

 

But they will need some kind of proper organisation to present their case and has you’ve so rightly pointed out for those involved at the sharp end it will be no picnic at all. With regard to who runs what, my understanding is that the intention is for the IWTF to as closely as possible mirror the manner the NWTF works, along with its rules and codes of conduct.

 

To clarify the situation, the NWTF is a totally democratic organisation. It’s an amalgamation of Working Terrier Clubs and its “Committee” is simply made up of representatives from each of its “Member Clubs”. Its Officers (Chairman, Vice Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer etc) are all elected annually by those same “Member Clubs” at the NWTF AGM. I have no reason to believe that the IWTF would be any different which I hope goes at least part way towards allaying some of your concerns.

 

At the NWTF AGM held at the beginning of this month the situation in N.I. was discussed at great length and with some concern. I/we was authorised to do anything we could to assist in the setting up of an IWTF and with any other assistance we could provide.

 

Neil you’re one of the very few people I’ve been fortunate enough to speak to who has any experience of the running of the old IWTF and I have nothing but the greatest of respect both for you and for your views. I believe you have much to contribute in this area and are more aware of the pitfalls than most. Even if you’re not prepared to get directly involved in the running of a reformed IWTF, I would urge you to in some way give it the benefit of your considerable experience, it would be much poorer without.

 

Yours Respectfully - Barrie

Edited April 15, 2012 by Barrie

[Barrie 1,325]

"The hand can't hit what the eye we can't see"

 

I'm not so sure that Ireland need to follow how things have been done with clubs , organisations and federations in Britain. Ireland had many terrier clubs in the 60's and 70's and an all island association but they were more instrumental in causing a ban on badger digging than anyone else.

 

Ireland has been more successful at preserving the rights to hunt with terriers than any of the British nations? Maybe people should look at why Ireland has been more successful?

 

It's easy to be dismissive of a perceived Irish simplicity in all things and blind to their effectiveness.

Michael Hutchins came to cork 20 years ago to organise hunt saboteurs but ended up hospitalised and Cork without Sabs.

John Tierney brought 21 hard line Sabs from England to Waterford, one was arrested 20 were hospitalised. Waterford has no Sabs.

 

There has always been strong opposition to hunting in Ireland the RSPCA was formed at the same time as anywhere else but never given the same influence, a huntsman sits on at least one of its boards. The Green party in 2 governments gained no ground on terriers, but mobilised a very strong Ad Hoc hunting lobby.

 

In the bigger scheme of things itd be very interesting to know why almost every other country in Europe has more freedom to hunt with terriers rather copying countries which have the least.

Bryan

 

Hi Bryan

 

The concerns all relate to recent work by the USPCA, the associated media coverage and what their real agenda is.

 

Clearly it's not to protect the badger in N.I. as it's already protected by law. Neither is it to prevent acts of cruelty, or prevent people breaking the law, otherwise those responsible would have been apprehended immediately rather than spending several months gathering material which they could turn into a media campaign.

 

Without a shadow of doubt at some point in time Ireland will be faced with anti terrierwork legislation, if the terrier world fails to organise itself, who instead will argue their case ?

 

When the tail docking ban was being discussed, I was contacted by one of the organisations directly involved in the discussions. They were concerned that whereas shooting was well represented and they were fairly confident gun dogs would be exempted, however due to the lack of any formal terrier representation things were not going so well and there were very genuine concern that working terriers could be less fortunate. The rest is history.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that one size fits all, I know that's not the case. But I do know that whatever direction you take in defending your activities, you will need to be properly organised in order to present that case. A submission to a Government Inquiry from a Mr Joe Bloggs (no matter how well presented) carries very little weight, however a submission from an organisation which represents 20-30 clubs and several thousand members is viewed entirely differently.

 

J.M.H.O. - Barrie

Edited April 15, 2012 by Barrie

[Tayto 52]

Stop.end done more harm to himself in a couple of days,than anyone could do in a lifetime.

How can anyone take this guy seriously?