Retrieving Help

[Cookie423 21]

Just after a bit of advice/help. Currently training my dog to retreive and faced with a few problems. Firstly if I use a tennis ball or something he doesn't seem interested so have to use his little fur fox. So things that are currently happening, I do a bit of tugging with him to get him excited and when I throw it he will either pick it up run off and drop it or pick it up shake it and run back when I call him without it. A couple of times he has ran back and dropped it about a meter away which I have praised him for. A lot of the time he just drops it halfway back. I have heard of people using long leads to gently pull them back but cant see this helping as he comes back anyway just without it most of the time! Any pointers? Cheers Lads

[beast 1,884]

how old is the dog? how long have you had him?how is it bred? are you training him in the house, in the yard or in the field?

[johnnylestershair 78]

try walking away from your dog when he is coming back to you he will want to please you and should fellow you then give him a big pat you have got to bond with the dog that is the main thing mate

[derbylad1 293]

Trying finding somewhere that he has no where else to run, except back to you. Like an alley-way or make something in the house. I think you need to asnwer the questions that have been posed by Beast first.

[Cookie423 21]

Hi lads he is around 4 and a half months now have had him since 8 weeks and I have been training him in the back garden. Thank you for your replies a few things to try

[derbylad1 293]

Like i said, build some sort of tunneling system so he has no where to run except back to you. You could even put put his bed behind your knees so he is even more enticed to return to you(trying to get to his bed). So throw the item you want to be retrieved, he'll wanna run with it and hopefully back to you and therefore your able to reward him accordinglly. Also prior to giving it to you, trying holding it in his mouth and giving the command "Hold". It'll take time...but worth it. Whats his breeding mate?

[beast 1,884]

most pups seem to prefer to carry the toy to the same spot each time, so you can try sitting in that spot to encourage the pup to come there. keep down on the pups level and dont ever shout at the pup or tell it off when you are doing "fetch" training. the tunnel that derbylad says is a good idea, and loads of praise when the pup gets it right. and what johnny syas about walking a few steps away from the pup when it drops short is good. dont ake the dummy away from the pup when it gets to you, just hold onto it while the pup holds the other end, and let it take it sometimes from your hand. and if it does a perfect fetch then you can reward it by giving the toy straight back to it. few things for you to try there. be patient and good luck

[Casso 1,261]

Just after a bit of advice/help. Currently training my dog to retreive and faced with a few problems. Firstly if I use a tennis ball or something he doesn't seem interested so have to use his little fur fox. So things that are currently happening, I do a bit of tugging with him to get him excited and when I throw it he will either pick it up run off and drop it or pick it up shake it and run back when I call him without it. A couple of times he has ran back and dropped it about a meter away which I have praised him for. A lot of the time he just drops it halfway back. I have heard of people using long leads to gently pull them back but cant see this helping as he comes back anyway just without it most of the time! Any pointers? Cheers Lads

it not the item as such its the having interaction with you thats the clincher that builds the bond,

 

dont worry about any of that stuff about the pup dropping the item, he just doesn't get what you want, he's young, he's also only a few months old

 

If your getting stressed about any of that stuff , leave it and just have fun interaction with him, because if you are the biggest fun in his life he will automatically want to bring things to you

most of all be patient , try and let the behavior come from inside dog without prompting,

 

in a few months when his drive kicks in, use a second item to lure him with the first, but its the actions you generate in the second that will attract him to you and a dog learns quicker in drive than any other state of mind,,every thing is fixable , you've plenty of time, best of luck with him

Edited March 23, 2012 by Casso

[Cookie423 21]

Just after a bit of advice/help. Currently training my dog to retreive and faced with a few problems. Firstly if I use a tennis ball or something he doesn't seem interested so have to use his little fur fox. So things that are currently happening, I do a bit of tugging with him to get him excited and when I throw it he will either pick it up run off and drop it or pick it up shake it and run back when I call him without it. A couple of times he has ran back and dropped it about a meter away which I have praised him for. A lot of the time he just drops it halfway back. I have heard of people using long leads to gently pull them back but cant see this helping as he comes back anyway just without it most of the time! Any pointers? Cheers Lads

it not the item as such its the having interaction with you thats the clincher that builds the bond,

 

dont worry about any of that stuff about the pup dropping the item, he just doesn't get what you want, he's young, he's also only a few months old

 

If your getting stressed about any of that stuff , leave it and just have fun interaction with him, because if you are the biggest fun in his life he will automatically want to bring things to you

most of all be patient , try and let the behavior come from inside dog without prompting,

 

in a few months when his drive kicks in, use a second item to lure him with the first, but its the actions you generate in the second that will attract him to you and a dog learns quicker in drive than any other state of mind,,every thing is fixable , you've plenty of time, best of luck with him

 

Thanks very much, I've only had terriers before so have never had to do this sort of training. He will come round eventually I give him lots of praise when he comes back even without. I think I will give him praise and a treat when he actually comes back. He's an American Bull Greyhound x Collie Greyhound Bull. Here he is sat next to the rods last weekend fishing.

 

Edited March 23, 2012 by Cookie423

[jporter 73]

i had a pup that was doing this the same things as you said yours is doing she was bull grey i tried and tried with her and she just kept doing this with a skin on a normal field i thought it was down to being a pup so i left it till she was lamping and when she caught a rabbit she used to kill it then as soon as i whistled she would come back with out the rabbit so i would put her on the slip go pick it up did that about ten times and then she started to retrieve gradually closer and closer then she was bringing them in natural as soon as i would turn light off live to hand as well obvi had a couple slip ups with in the night but the dogs was only 14 months old so as she got older retrieved more and more hope that helps bud just what i have experienced mate i have a bull collie grey now i have only got her spent one on one time with her not let any other dogs go out with at all till now so my bonding was a big part of this pup as she has been retrieving since 5 months stock broken stright back day or night atb

[jporter 73]

the bull collie grey is now 6 months

[Cookie423 21]

Cheers for all the advice lads

[hutch6 550]

I am starting from absolute basics (again) with mine. The two collies will fetch until the cows come home and then chase them away just so they can ftech them back again but the running dog, well, she just wants to take her toys to a place away from everything and hord them so it really is starting from scratch with her.

 

I have a little guide for teaching fetch I wrote for a few dog owners and it might help provide a few ideas but you can adapt it how you want based on what motivates the dog and how it behaves - I've used it with slight adaptations for a fair few dogs. I am using a long line that is around 15m long. She can pick up the object and carry it off until she either get tot he end of the line or I choose the distance. I have managed to get her to reduce the distance she is carrying off to now. In about 100 throws of frisbees, tennis balls, rag toys and golf balls she has successfully retrieved about 6 times with full food and priase reward so I know she can do it, she's just been stubborn (surely I can't be the weak link can I? ) Here you go anyway.

 

This is THE BEST GAME a dog knows - "I have what you want so you'll need to chase me if you want it!"

 

With two dogs you can put down any number of toys but the only toy the dog will want is the one that the other dog has.

 

Easiest way to combat this is to use two toys.

 

I know that you don't want to get into a tug of war with gun dogs or there won't be much left for lunch so I'll try and give you an example of getting the dog to bring it back and drop it at your feet and then you can work on getting it to hand form there but first let’s see if she will bring it back to you in the first place

 

I am explaining this from scratch as if the dog doesn't know what the toy is for but if your dog will engage straight away then just take from it what you want at whatever stage but I would go back a couple of steps to ensure that the progress to the next stage can be gained.

 

Toys.

 

What we would term as a toy is just an inanimate object with no value, no real interest and a dog will soon get bored of the toy if left to it's own devices.

YOU are your dog's best toy by far, it just needs to realise this and you just need to let it know.

The toy you use with your dog can be a stick, a ball, a sock, a dummy or a cuddly toy it really doesn't matter but what does matter is that YOU make that toy interesting so that the dog wants to play the game. The game itself is the retrieve and the toy is just something to retrieve.

 

Getting your dog interested in "the toy".

 

Take your toy and dog into an area with little distractions so a room in the house would be beneficial.

Get on your knees (best possible way) or sit down on the floor at the dog's level.

You now have to do something that some may find difficult but being away from everything is quite handy as you now need to make yourself look like a total pillock.

With a high pitched voice, wide eyes, big smiles and loads of excited noises and movements you start moving the toy around - "Whatsthis? What is it? Brrrrrrup! Brrrrrrup! Weeeeee! Hooooplaaaa!" – anything that gets the dog interested in watching the toy.

The reason I said kneeling is the best possible position is because if you watch two dogs one will try and engage the other in play with what is termed the "Play Bow" - the front paws extend, the chest is lowered, the bum is high in the air and they make high pitched noises. If you emulate that position the dog recognises that body language and will get a better idea of what the heck is going on and you haven't gone insane. Go to google images and type in "Play bow" to see what I mean.

 

Once the dog starts looking at the toy zipping back and forth as you move it across the floor in front of you rapidly, around you back, between your legs, in an arc in the air and back along the floor again whilst sounding like a wet knickered girl at a Take That concert don't stop, keep going for a while longer. Praise the dog and then then stop the toy in between you and the dog - do not let go of the toy. If the dog just stands and stares then start the movement and sounds again for a while and when the dog is watching for a few moments stop the toy in between the two of you again but leave it motionless for a while. Eventually the dog's inquisitive nature takes over and it will take a step or two towards to the toy. As soon as this happens verbally praise the dog. and encourage it. Move the toy a little bit side to side without noises and stop it in the same spot as before. The dog will start to get that the toy is pretty interesting now as ALL dogs love to chase, you just need to wake that instinct up a bit sometimes and focus it on what it can chase and get rewarded for (a lot of dogs that don't play fetch or chase games will chase cars, runners, cyclists etc because chasing is in their instincts but they haven't been told what they can and cannot chase. My collies have instincts that tell them to chase anything and everything that moves but because I play fetch with them they learn very quickly what they can and cannot chase through double reward chasing. A lot of explaining required for that one and I realise some may be bored to tears already).

When you stop the toy this time, still keeping hold of it wait for the dog to walk over and sniff the toy. As soon as it's nose gets within an inch of the toy, pull the toy back away towards you and start moving it around again.

Stop the toy again, wait for the dog to sniff it and get it moving again with your silly voices.

Stop the toy again and the dog should start to be more confident around the toy and come in quicker for an inspection. This is when the dog is interested in the toy.

 

The Game of Games.

 

Now the dog is either quick to come in for a sniff or is following the toy with small pounces as you move it within reach you need to start playing them at their game.

If you are knelt on the floor drag the toy under your body and huddle over it, head down, hiding it from the dog. If you are sat on the floor against the wall then drag it behind your back, either way keep it there for a few seconds and remain still and quiet.

If you feel or see the dog move it for to see where it is then burst back into life moving it about again and making daft noises - at this point the dog (depending on breed, temperament etc) may start to bark. If it does and you don't want that then stop the game - no reward for barking.

If not then continue and hide the toy again.

Burst back into life and start the shebang again.

This time you want to stop the toy, release it and watch.

Chances are the dog will sniff it, play bow the toy, jump around it, pick it up or bark at it (end game if bark with a "No!").

Now move the toy again but this time as you are moving it back and forth allow the toy to go close to the dog's mouth as you are moving it about but only move it slowly with your hand away from the dog's mouth - don't want any accidents. If the dog takes it praise it and reward it with strokes or a ruffing around its ears or whatever, just as long as it's not physically abusing it but it stimulates the dog keeping it in the play mode and excited. No point being boring once the dog has it for the first time or the dog thinks "Well this wasn't worth sh!t". Think of watching you kid taking their first steps or riding a bike on their own without stabilisers for the first time, you wouldn't go "Not bad". Act like it is a miracle as the dog HAS to enjoy having the toy in its mouth now; it HAS to WANT to have the toy in its mouth

 

Problem: Dog has toy. Dog won't let go of toy.

Solution: Have either food reward or another toy of the same type.

 

Food Reward solution: Offer the food reward, allow the dog to sniff the food, as soon as the dog drops the toy - "Good dog!!!" and food reward given followed by another food reward. Now immediately move the toy around again to initiate the game. Repeat this 10 times until the dog is dropping the toy as soon as the food reward is offered.

 

A big mistake folk make is the delay in moving the toy again to begin with. Doing this tells the dog that if the toy is released then the game is pretty boring as the time between interesting bits is rubbish compared with if the dog had the toy and wouldn’t give it back then you would be interacting with it immediately and every second in order to try and get the thing back. You have to do the same with the dog. So make sure that as soon as the praise is stopped the toy is interesting again – praise with one hand, pick up the toy with the other.

 

Next time the food reward is offered and the dog drops the toy just wait a second or two and then reward. Initiate the game again. Repeat this 10 times.

 

Now when the food reward is offered watch the mouth of the dog, as soon as the toy begins to fall out give your command of "Drop" or "Dead" or "Release" whatever you want and give the food reward and praise. Repeat this ten times.

The dog now is at ease with hearing a noise as it drops the toy and getting a reward so it is not hearing the noise, thinking you want to toy and is still holding onto the toy thinking it is game on again.

 

Next step is to say the command when the dog has the toy, wait for it to drop the toy and then reward. Once you have the dog dropping on command you can then phase out the food reward.

 

Another Toy Solution.

 

Remember what I said in the second paragraph - the only toy the dog will want is the one that the other dog has.

 

Once the dog has the toy in its mouth you immediately (it has to be immediate) grab the other toy, move that about and make it interesting. Because of how dogs are wired the toy in its mouth becomes boring and is essentially out of the game as you don’t want it as you have another one that, to the dog, looks a million times more interesting than the one in its mouth.

If you show zero interest in the toy the dog has and start playing with another then the dog becomes interested in that one and wants that one hence you control the game.

The dog may drop the toy it currently has so keep an eye on it as you whizz the other one about, if it drops the toy then offer it the one in your hand. If it takes it then praise the dog with verbal and physical reward. Then pick up the one it just dropped and whizz that about thus voiding the one in its mouth again.

If it doesn’t drop the toy the revert back to huddling over the toy, turn away from the dog and play with the toy you have and keep offering the dog the toy in your hand to the dog. Remember that the toy in the dog’s mouth holds no reward to the dog because it isn’t moving anymore, isn’t all that interesting and ultimately you don’t want it so it is worthless.

Keep watching the dog and when it drops the other one you can offer the toy you have to it and praise and reward again.

Once you get to the stage of offering the dog the toy you have and it drops the toy in its mouth or it drops that toy when you pick up the other one then you can start giving the release command that you choose but make sure you give the command before you allow the dog to take the toy in your hand.

 

NB: The toy that is not being used after it has been dropped needs to be moved away from the dog into YOUR space. This says to the dog that it is not a free toy to play with and puts that toy in your possession again.

 

Beginning the Retrieve.

 

At this point there are a few things going on.

 

1.The only toy the dog wants is the one in your hand.

 

2.Because of how close you are together “interesting and fun things” happen when close to you.

 

3.Instincts are being tapped into and you can see the valves warming up to a nice glow.

 

4.The dog is taking an active interest in you and focussing on what are doing and have to offer.

 

5.The dog is learning.

 

6.Without you realising it you are already laying down the foundations for the hardest bit of the retrieve which is getting the dog to drop the object in front of you. Already you have begun to change the underlying rules of the game and morph it away from its original meaning which to the dog is “If you want this you will have to chase me for it”.

 

7.You are communicating with the dog through a way it understands very clearly which in turn begins to lay a foundation.

 

So now we have a dog that will actively take something from your hand when offered because you made it interesting enough whilst you had it – that is the key to the retrieve at its bare essentials “Human! Make that thing in your hand interesting for me. Make it move so I can chase it!”

Now all we do is make it move a bit so the dog has to move after it a bit in order to have the interesting thing and be “winning” the game.

Make the toy whizz about again in your hand with your silly voices and instead of offering it straight to the dog’s mouth hold it a touch away from the dog so it has to move in some way to the toy. Depending on your dog you could hold the toy a yard away and the dog will move its whole body a few steps to take the toy. Some my only want to move a front leg, stretch out its neck and project its mouth forwards. Some may want to just stretch their neck and project their jaw whilst others may just want to project their jaw. You could have a fab student who is now actively chasing the path of the toy as you whizz it about, if so skip right to the last step here. You need to find where you dog it is at and start at that point. For the sake of it here I go from just projecting the jaw right up to the full retrieve over 10yrds.

 

Jaw projection: After whizzing the toy about etc hold the toy half an inch away from the dog’s mouth and wait for it to take hold. Praise/treat when it does so, give the command to drop, praise/treat when it does so and then take the other toy to whizz about. Offer it again half an inch away from the dog’s mouth and praise/treat when it takes it, ask to drop, praise/treat and start again with the other toy. Once your dog is doing this reliably then move on to the next step.

 

Neck Stretching: After whizzing the toy about etc hold the toy an inch away from the dog, wait for it to take hold, praise/treat, command to drop, praise/treat when it does, whizz the other toy about move the “free” toy into your space and offer the whizzing toy to the dog an inch away from its mouth again. Repeat this until it will take the toy every time and then begin to increase the distance at which you offer the toy in 1inch increments but make sure the dog moves to the toy reliably before upping the distance.

 

Move A Front Paw: Repeat the game principles but offer the toy at 6inch so it has to move its body.

You then increase the distance until the dog has to walk a couple of yards to the toy.

 

NB: If the dog fails to perform the task at any stage of any training ALWAYS drop it back a stage or two to something it gets the hang of and then go back up through each stage to reinforce the learning and build the confidence back up.

By now you will have a dog that will happily trot over to the toy and take it which is the beginnings of “The Retrieve”, the middle bit is the “Go mug it” stage and is just a few steps further without much extra involvement.

 

When you offer the toy this time after whizzing it about, as the dog goes for the toy, just move it out of the dog’s reach again. Praise/treat as it takes it. Praise/treat as it drops it. Immediately move the toy or other toy again. Repeat this until the dog is fluidly chasing the toy so there is no hesitation, you can offer it and move it at the same time or the dog chases it until it has it.

 

Now comes the dead easy bit. When the dog is chasing the toy and is getting near it, just drop the toy. You will find the dog will pounce on it or just pick it up. Big praise of this as it is the first pick up. Ask to drop, praise/treat and immediately repeat the exercise.

 

Your dog is now picking up the toy. Easy wasn’t it?

 

All you do now is increase the distance little by little so get the dog chasing and when it gets near the toy gently toss the toy a few inches away in front of the dog, then try it a foot in front, a yard in front or across the room but always make sure it is in front of the dog to avoid any confusion.

The end and what the task is named after is bringing the toy back to you - retrieve.

 

For the past few minutes, half an hour, an hour, couple of hours, days or whatever the game you have been playing starts with you, in YOUR SPACE, it doesn’t start anywhere else so don’t make it start anywhere else now or the whole thing will be undone without you knowing it and this is why:

 

If the you throw the toy and the dog does not return to you then the game is essentially over – the toy isn’t interesting, there isn’t anything to chase, there is no reward and the is no interaction. The dog doesn’t want this, it’s all hyped up and raring to go but nothing is happening so if the dog doesn’t return immediately DO NOT be tempted to go to the dog, call the dog, look at the dog, move towards it in anyway, pick up the other toy, offer it a treat or try and coax it back you. If you do so then you are saying to the dog “I want what you have, I am interacting with you so therefore the game is still on” – the dog wants this, it’s winning as it has the interesting thing. The dog is now making the rules not you.

 

What you want to do is not pay any attention to dog, don’t even acknowledge it, stop playing the game and if it comes to it, turn away from the dog.

 

Going back to two dogs playing. If the dog without the toy pays no attention to the dog with the toy then it the dog with the toy will buzz passed, tease and try to get the other dog to chase it – play the game. You do not want this so you change the game by making the rules.

 

It may take a bit of time from a few seconds to a minute or a couple of minutes but no matter how long it takes do not give in just think that as long as the dog has the toy you are not playing so what does it matter. Whilst you are doing this the dog it using it’s grey matter – “I am buzzing passed, I am running away, I am teasing them but they still don’t play. How did I get them to play last time?” BINGO!!! The dog now remembers that the times that things became interesting were when it was near you and you had the toy so it WILL come back to you with the toy, eventually.

When it does HUGE praise/treat and then ask it to drop, praise/treat and immediately move the toy or other toy and start it again.

 

This time you might not have to wait as long or the dog may have snow balled so that it returns immediately to you. Repeat and repeat and repeat as much as you like but remember you do not interact with the dog at all until it brings the toy back you and even then you don’t reach for the toy or make a movement towards the dog you simply ask it to drop it.

 

Now you can just throw the toy without making a moron of yourself, throw it over there, over here, behind something and keep upping the game as you are away an flying without the dog making the rules.

Edited April 2, 2012 by hutch6