english bull terrier pics

[steve t 928]

16 minutes ago, Carlovian said:

 terriers really only get in to grips when they sense the digging , a lot of time the are sounding , 

Most of my dogs are a bit thick and don't sound they think they can kill everything and will be in grips or fight  until we get down. It can take hours and I can assure you they're not barking. Many have been carried off a dig. A few needed resuscitation and a few have paid the ultimate price. 

[Victor_84 188]

43 minutes ago, Carlovian said:

terriers really only get in to grips when they sense the digging , a lot of time the are sounding

The strongest terriers cling immediately, give voice only if there is an obstacle. But with such dogs it is better not to hunt a badger, but they are needed in breeding and fox hunt.

43 minutes ago, Carlovian said:

in contact with each other till its over which could be 30 mins or 5 hours

I know a dachshund that has been in a hole for 4 days

43 minutes ago, Carlovian said:

a badger don't want to be hunted and does every thing to get away

Badgers can be very aggressive defensively

Edited May 14 by Victor_84

[Carlovian 592]

1 hour ago, Victor_84 said:

The strongest terriers cling immediately, give voice only if there is an obstacle. But with such dogs it is better not to hunt a badger, but they are needed in breeding and fox hunt.

I know a dachshund that has been in a hole for 4 days

Badgers can be very aggressive defensively

4 days , was he lost or asleep  ? . and badgers like foxes want only to get away , how do you know they take hold immediately ? you'd have to open it up to know that for sure , and again I say they really get in to grips when they sense the digging

[Victor_84 188]

13 minutes ago, Carlovian said:

4 days , was he lost or asleep  ? . and badgers like foxes want only to get away , how do you know they take hold immediately ? you'd have to open it up to know that for sure , and again I say they really get in to grips when they sense the digging

In addition to the hole, they can be seen at training stations when training hunting dogs and trials. Badgers, like foxes, can be very different in character. Both timid and real fighters who can kick the dog out.

Edited May 14 by Victor_84

[Victor_84 188]

To stay on the subject. There was a bull terrier in the Ural Hunter kennel (foxterriers and jagdterriers are bred). Name of IRIN's VISHNU ROSEMARY AFI EFI. It parents are show dogs. It has diplomas: guard duty 1st degree and 3rd place in competitions, field diploma in blood trail 3rd degree, diploma of the 1st degree in aviary badger, diploma of the 2nd degree in wild boar, 2nd place in weightpooling competitions, second place in agility competitions, obedience competitions BH (companion dog) 4th place, RKF show champion. It is very affectionate and calm at home, loves small children and in general people of all ages and types, lives with a cat and several other dogs, does not conflict. It is used on hunting as a gun dog and to search for ungulate wounds, always accompanies the owner on all trips, is very devoted to the family.

Edited May 14 by Victor_84

[Bakerboy 4,625]

I went with a mate to pick up a jagd terrier that had been very successful at those contenental trials and had all these fckn diplomas, it was utterly useless for proper natural earthwork, which I sort of thought at the time was the reason it didnt cost him an arm and a leg

[Victor_84 188]

2 hours ago, Bakerboy said:

I went with a mate to pick up a jagd terrier that had been very successful at those contenental trials and had all these fckn diplomas, it was utterly useless for proper natural earthwork, which I sort of thought at the time was the reason it didnt cost him an arm and a leg

The trials are designed to exclude a subjective assessment of the dog's working qualities. But in many countries, contact with animals in artificial holes is forbidden. In this case, the assessment of the dog is based only on forecasts. There are usually no problems with a normal check. But there are some nuances (in our country). When choosing a dog, it is better to look at diplomas from competitions, not trials. Because during the trials, they can play along with a dog who trained at the station where the tests are taking place, giving her a weak animal. There are always animals of different levels of defense. A dog that consistently performs well in competitions will be great.

[Bakerboy 4,625]

32 minutes ago, Victor_84 said:

The trials are designed to exclude a subjective assessment of the dog's working qualities. But in many countries, contact with animals in artificial holes is forbidden. In this case, the assessment of the dog is based only on forecasts. There are usually no problems with a normal check. But there are some nuances (in our country). When choosing a dog, it is better to look at diplomas from competitions, not trials. Because during the trials, they can play along with a dog who trained at the station where the tests are taking place, giving her a weak animal. There are always animals of different levels of defense. A dog that consistently performs well in competitions will be great.

What do you mean by competitions, are these held in natural earths/settes

[Victor_84 188]

7 hours ago, Bakerboy said:

What do you mean by competitions, are these held in natural earths/settes

What I wrote refers to artificial burrows. Scores on trials and competitions are calculated according to the same system. The speed of entering the burrow, the approach to the beast (it is necessary to overcome the narrowing and relief of the burrow), perseverance, voice and courage, and the place of grip are evaluated. The degree of the diploma depends on the number of points. During the trials, the dog works once. At the competition twice. The best dog is selected based on the results of two works. All other things being equal, the speed of operation is considered. Trials are also carried out in natural burrows on wild beast. There are other rules there. There are no points, only a diploma degree based on the results of the work. The beast is being shot.

Edited May 15 by Victor_84

[Bakerboy 4,625]

6 hours ago, Victor_84 said:

What I wrote refers to artificial burrows. Scores on trials and competitions are calculated according to the same system. The speed of entering the burrow, the approach to the beast (it is necessary to overcome the narrowing and relief of the burrow), perseverance, voice and courage, and the place of grip are evaluated. The degree of the diploma depends on the number of points. During the trials, the dog works once. At the competition twice. The best dog is selected based on the results of two works. All other things being equal, the speed of operation is considered. Trials are also carried out in natural burrows on wild beast. There are other rules there. There are no points, only a diploma degree based on the results of the work. The beast is being shot.

In my opinion the only way to judge a terrier is below ground in natural earths/settes, speed entering a burrow means absolutely nothing, artificial narrowing of a false tunnel means nothing and watching a dog "in grips" means less than nothing, Ive seen absolute cowards of dogs get stuck in with some light on their backs.

Artificial earths are a poor substitute for proper work and shows when the dogs are tried in the correct manner, thats not to say some of these terriers couldnt do a days work proper but I wouldnt be interested in pups or adults solely on the back of trials

[Victor_84 188]

 

16 minutes ago, Bakerboy said:

artificial narrowing of a false tunnel means nothing

Among other things, this allows you to cut off too large dogs.

[Victor_84 188]

I will not argue, I will only give an old article on a topic that was discussed earlier by a famous German breeder.

Malice. Article by Klaus Schultz (v.d. ZEILER KLINGE kennel).

Malice is the main quality of the jagdterriers. It is defined as the degree of release of aggressive behavior. Malice is a specific and confusing concept. This quality is not found in any dog breed or any kind of animal in nature. It is because of this that malice is hard to pass on to offspring.

A large number of leading breeders pay great attention to this feature. I can confidently say that very few people think about this topic correctly and at the same time do not check their dogs enough, looking at it through their fingers. This applies to all breeders, including German ones. It is normal that over 70 years of breeding the breed, work on malice has progressed, but a lot of different factors have influenced the fact that malice did not become what it should have been. This means that dogs have had only a few contacts in their entire lives, which is not acceptable.

This refers to the birthplace of the breed. Instead of the cruelest selection selecting the best so that such dogs would have access to breeding, malice was increasingly divided along certain bloodlines. It was getting worse and about 10 years ago, more precisely in 1986, in Germany, at the instigation of animal rights organizations, contact with the beast was banned. This situation has become dangerous for the continued existence of the breed, because a jagdterrier without a malice check is like a football player without one leg.

Now the dogs, after searching in the hole and voices through the grate (gate), must push the animal through the grate into a separate room. This type of test cannot be called a test of malice in any way, only a test of the dog's endurance and endurance. This test method in Germany creates problems for breeders in identifying good dogs and thus affects breeding.

Malice is such a deep topic that we must approach it with great care in order to properly evaluate a dog in this discipline. We have to check for malice, at least until the age of 6. This means constant participation in competitions, several fox hunts and in no case badger hunts, and of course training with your friends or at home. This is the only way, after checking the dogs, you can tell if they are malice or not. There should be at least 50 direct contacts. This does not mean blitz contacts for several seconds. It is normal to expect that dogs who have gone through a large number of contacts will have many ups and downs, i.e. good and bad days. No one, if I may say so, the most malice dog, dares to afford to bark at a fox or a badger before lowering the grate (gate). If this happens to your dog at least once, do not deceive yourself and look for excuses, understand that your dog is not completely malice, but simple malice. If you do not believe, wait a couple of days and let the same dog into a U-shaped hole for 2-3 minutes for a good badger, and then in turn for three good foxes with a grip length of 20 seconds. 99% that a dog that once classically barked at a badger or fox will not have time to successfully complete its training. The percentage of the most malice dogs is very small and you need to have a lot of luck and knowledge to get such a dog.

Edited May 15 by Victor_84

[Victor_84 188]

continuation...

As for burrowing, all burrows differ from each other, as well as foxes. I do not want to comment on the hunting of a badger, since it is physically stronger and more malice, causes lifelong injuries to the dog, kills in a fight or buries it with earth, therefore it is undesirable for an angry dog to participate in the hunt for this beast. Half-breed dogs are allowed to attack badgers, with a little bit of malice. You can write a lot of articles about fox hunting, but you still can't process and describe everything you need. A dog in a natural burrow should always try to kill the animal and pull it out. Such work entails very serious injuries, primarily to the head and requires great desire, endurance, intelligence and endurance from the dog in order to reach the final goal, i.e. to beat the fox in a life-and-death struggle.

I would like to talk again about working in an artificial burrow, where I will explain some details. The rules of competitions and tests say that a dog must make a grab for a fox or a badger within two minutes after lifting the gate, while the maximum score of 4 + 1 is given to a dog who made a grab for the throat or chest of a fox, or for the throat, nape, chest and nose of a badger. Despite the fact that such dogs receive a rating of 4+ 1, the best work is considered to be the one in which the dog instantly takes the beast and holds it for any place. The very barking of the beast is an indicator of fear and thus it is an indicator of the insufficiency of malice. Several launches in a row (4-6) one after the other, necessarily with long grabs, only improve the working qualities of the fighters and help to identify the best in spite.

Looking at everything that is going on around malice, it goes without saying that two dogs cannot be honestly compared which of them is more malice. They are never tested on the same animal, they never hunt in the same hole, etc. And when we let the same fox in, another dog always has a better chance, because the fox is tired after the first dog. This applies to both hunting and training.

Edited May 15 by Victor_84

[Bakerboy 4,625]

4 minutes ago, Victor_84 said:

 

Among other things, this allows you to cut off too large dogs.

In a natural earth I expect a dog to dig on past a tight spot not sit there whining waiting for a lid to be lifted

[Victor_84 188]

5 minutes ago, Bakerboy said:

In a natural earth I expect a dog to dig on past a tight spot not sit there whining waiting for a lid to be lifted

ok, that's a fair point