Beardie or Border

[Magpie 102]

talking aboot collie curs, Am I allowed in yet ? its fecking freezing oot here

 

Im still waiting a well

 

Magpie

Can i ask how TTS, your bitch out of Hector is.....?

 

She's 21.5 tts and about 40lb when fit.

 

Edited April 1, 2012 by Magpie

[thorny 100]

One of the down sides to Beardies and Beardie bred lurchers is that they can take a long time to mature mentally. It's nothing for a dog to be well on it's way in to it's third year before they really start to settle into their job. Patients is not something that is very common amongst folk these days, but it's a vital quality required of any would be Beardie lurcher owner.

 

It is vital that you don't do too much too soon with Collie bred dogs.

 

That's very interesting Magpie. I have had bull and wheaten blooded dogs in the past alongside a Beardie cross and the latter was the one I had to use my discretion on in terms of holding her back as she wanted to get amongst at a very early age. The bulls and wheaten blooded dogs switched on comparatively later. It's something that the lurcher owner has to be very careful with as if you are used to dealing with strong dog crosses, they tell you when they're ready and when they do, they generally are. With the collie blooded dogs, they can be telling you they're ready but you as the owner should be exercising your discretion and reading your animal and deciding whether they are or not. I think this is often the reason why some dogs are ruined or over-matched at young ages. Having said all of that this young bloke started single-handed work at a young age and never looked back.

 

I don't think it's a case of not being ready to work most can't wait to get started and can be very full on and as you say you really have to be on the ball and hold them back. It's more a case of engaging the brain. My dog Galan, son to the Beardie pictured in your earlier post, was very keen, too keen in fact which led to silly, school boy errors if you like. It wasn't until he had two full seasons under his belt that he began to settle in to his role. A roll he excels at now. It's kinda like kids running about a football pitch like headless chickens, they are all keen to get stuck in, but can't see the benefit of holding their position and waiting for the opportunity for the ball to come to them. My young bitch is so very much like this. She can be deadly, but sometimes her desire to catch gets in the way of rational thinking.

 

This isn't restricted to Beardie bred dogs though. Any intelligent dog with bags of drive could go through this it'st about striking the right balance between intelligence and drive. Something I believe comes, albeit slowly in some cases, natural to Beardie bred stuff.

quoteVery interesting read this and a fantastic point there Magpie. I have a border/beardie mix from Hancock.He has just had his first season and did ok, but that was more down to the fact we mooch more than anything. He has a fantastic nose on him and will find stuff even the father in-laws springer has missed, but boy does he go at it like you say"a bull in a china shop". Its nice to read that in time he should settle. He does however over think things sometimes. By this I mean he can make chase and then turn and fly off to where he thinks his quarry will end up, this has been productive a few times but on a whole not so good. I swear you can see the look of disapointment on his face. as if to say" i would of bet on that coming this way" Never had time or the permission to do much ferret work with him yet, but thankfully have secured a large amount of permission. So will get him steady as a rock with the ferrets over the summer. Then hopefully next season our days will be far more productive. By then he will be over 2 years old and hopefully settleing down

[Stabs 3]

Genuine question......do you think the role that a Beardie lurcher is expected to play (more of a traditional one I suppose) takes a while for a dog (any dog) to fully settle into and hence the thinking that Beardie's take a while to find their feet, or do you think another type could settle quicker?

 

I guess what I'm asking is it the role/job you are asking them to fulfill that makes it seem like they're not as quick to master it/mature due to the complexities of what's expected? Is there any other type that would do the job to the same standard that would wed itself to the job quicker?

 

Could it be a case of getting the appropriate dog for the job and being fully aware of what that type brings to the table in terms of both pros and cons? I have often been guilty of using inappropriate dogs for the job at hand, but for the ferreting/rabbiting job I couldn't have asked for a better type. The son to the old bitch I have is another type of dog again and is as incomparable to the attributes she brought to me so shows the variation between the various percentage crosses and types.

[bird 9,968]

One of the down sides to Beardies and Beardie bred lurchers is that they can take a long time to mature mentally. It's nothing for a dog to be well on it's way in to it's third year before they really start to settle into their job. Patients is not something that is very common amongst folk these days, but it's a vital quality required of any would be Beardie lurcher owner.

 

It is vital that you don't do too much too soon with Collie bred dogs.

 

That's very interesting Magpie. I have had bull and wheaten blooded dogs in the past alongside a Beardie cross and the latter was the one I had to use my discretion on in terms of holding her back as she wanted to get amongst at a very early age. The bulls and wheaten blooded dogs switched on comparatively later. It's something that the lurcher owner has to be very careful with as if you are used to dealing with strong dog crosses, they tell you when they're ready and when they do, they generally are. With the collie blooded dogs, they can be telling you they're ready but you as the owner should be exercising your discretion and reading your animal and deciding whether they are or not. I think this is often the reason why some dogs are ruined or over-matched at young ages. Having said all of that this young bloke started single-handed work at a young age and never looked back.

 

I don't think it's a case of not being ready to work most can't wait to get started and can be very full on and as you say you really have to be on the ball and hold them back. It's more a case of engaging the brain. My dog Galan, son to the Beardie pictured in your earlier post, was very keen, too keen in fact which led to silly, school boy errors if you like. It wasn't until he had two full seasons under his belt that he began to settle in to his role. A roll he excels at now. It's kinda like kids running about a football pitch like headless chickens, they are all keen to get stuck in, but can't see the benefit of holding their position and waiting for the opportunity for the ball to come to them. My young bitch is so very much like this. She can be deadly, but sometimes her desire to catch gets in the way of rational thinking.

 

This isn't restricted to Beardie bred dogs though. Any intelligent dog with bags of drive could go through this it'st about striking the right balance between intelligence and drive. Something I believe comes, albeit slowly in some cases, natural to Beardie bred stuff.

quoteVery interesting read this and a fantastic point there Magpie. I have a border/beardie mix from Hancock.He has just had his first season and did ok, but that was more down to the fact we mooch more than anything. He has a fantastic nose on him and will find stuff even the father in-laws springer has missed, but boy does he go at it like you say"a bull in a china shop". Its nice to read that in time he should settle. He does however over think things sometimes. By this I mean he can make chase and then turn and fly off to where he thinks his quarry will end up, this has been productive a few times but on a whole not so good. I swear you can see the look of disapointment on his face. as if to say" i would of bet on that coming this way" Never had time or the permission to do much ferret work with him yet, but thankfully have secured a large amount of permission. So will get him steady as a rock with the ferrets over the summer. Then hopefully next season our days will be far more productive. By then he will be over 2 years old and hopefully settleing down

 

i think you can get the above ( being to clever) in alot of ( either) colliexs .As daytime dogs i think colliexs take some beating, but as out+out lamping dogs ,prob not the best x, as from the above reason . If just lamping dog, a 1/4 collie is plenty, but as alrounder 1x are spot on .!

[fatlad 250]

ive always bonded better with beardys there not as sensitive as border crosses

[birddog 1,354]

although only 3/16 beardie (but she seems to have taken more to the beardie side) my jazz too went through the rebellious teenager bit, a real pain, you'd give her a command you knew she understood she'd give you the look and do the exact opposite, a few of my mates advised passing her on or finding a pet home and i have to admit the thought crossed my mind a few times, it seemed to take ages but eventually she came round to my way of thinking. she also took a while to mature but by her second full season she began to come good. never had a bad foot injury and she hunts on some horrendous ground from sand dunes full of holes and scrapes to quarry floors, she's just on her way back from a gracillis injury but it seems to have been itra rather than intermuscular and this is the only problem she's really had (chasing a ball in the park a straight line on flat ground a yip and she pulled up). i've had border crosses in the past and wouldn't go back there. they may have negatives but imo these are far outwieghed by the positives as an all rounder (ferreting, lamping, working cover, catches fur and feather, working nets, with terriers etc) if you have the patience and are prepared to work at it beardies are tops

[Dave N 9]

Totally agree flat out hyper first season waste a lot of energy but second season different ball game, once they settle down they are far more enjoyable to work with.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2012 by Dave N

[kanigra 110]

Years ago had both beardie/grey & border/grey.And a beardie/border/grey.All good at the ferreting/mouching game but don't rate them for anything else.

[Magpie 102]

Genuine question......do you think the role that a Beardie lurcher is expected to play (more of a traditional one I suppose) takes a while for a dog (any dog) to fully settle into and hence the thinking that Beardie's take a while to find their feet, or do you think another type could settle quicker?

 

I guess what I'm asking is it the role/job you are asking them to fulfill that makes it seem like they're not as quick to master it/mature due to the complexities of what's expected? Is there any other type that would do the job to the same standard that would wed itself to the job quicker?

 

Could it be a case of getting the appropriate dog for the job and being fully aware of what that type brings to the table in terms of both pros and cons? I have often been guilty of using inappropriate dogs for the job at hand, but for the ferreting/rabbiting job I couldn't have asked for a better type. The son to the old bitch I have is another type of dog again and is as incomparable to the attributes she brought to me so shows the variation between the various percentage crosses and types.

 

Yes and yes. It takes any dog time to truly settle into a traditional lurchers role or any role I guess. You don't see many 3 out of 3 dogs under the age of two do you. People might well have a young dog that picks up long ear well, but one would hope they would allow the dog time to develop both physically and mentally before putting it under that kind of stress.

 

As to whether there is another type that would settle into the traditional role quicker, I can't really answer that. Apart from two lurcher to lurcher crosses I've only kept straight Beardie Greyhound crosses in the last however many years. I started as a boy with whippet types, but soon found them lacking. Others may get on with them but I didn't. It's a case of matching a type of lurcher with your own personality. I've been lucky to have found mine fairly quickly, some may never, particularly if they continually swap dogs at the first sign of trouble. When you know, like you say, what a particular type brings to the table and it fits you're well on your way to forming a successful partnership.

 

There are reasons why the Beardie has fallen from favour with modern farmers and slow maturity is one of them. Not all Beardies will be this way, dogs are like humans in that they all have there own personalites. They don't hang on every ward or whistle that comes from a shepherd's mouth either they think for themselves. My lurchers are exactly the same. It's not something that fits with everyone. The Beardies pictured earlier need very little in the way of commands, they know their job and just get on with it. Have a good read through the Shepherd's with Beardies web sit and you'll see dogs working under their own initiative to hold sheep and cattle while the shepherds back is turned. I wonder how many trial bred Borders are able to think for themselves in that way.

 

Modern farming techniques require a dog that is easily trained and does exactly what the shepherd wants first time every time. Beardies are a just a bit more challenging so they don't suit. Stock man and shepherds who do use Bearides generally want entertain anything else, they know the benefits of biding their time. I know of a well known and very successful trail shepherd that uses Beardies to work on his own farm and just keeps Borders for trailing. That says a lot to me.

 

Beardies are being worked form one end of the British isles to the next and long may it continue for to loose yet another of our oldest working breeds would be an absolute travesty.

 

Some are looking to attract the attention that the Beardie so rightly deserves, in fact there's a lass over in Norfolk who has been doin extremely well with her Beardies in field trail events. Good on her I say.

 

I find the comment 'too clever for themselves' really funny. To me it's a ridiculous statement. The more intelligent a dog is the quicker it learns to read situations and solve problems quickly and correctly every time. If it's a problem for folk then perhaps they should look to own something other than a Collie lurcher. That's just my humble opinion so don't start shooting at me... Please.

[Stabs 3]

Thanks for the considered reply Magpie.....always a pleasure to read your posts mate

[KittleRox 2,147]

Magpie > just picking up on your point about you found beardies suit your own temperament, I also think this is why some folk may prefer the border as apposed to beardie because the borders temp suits them and as you say both types may not suit some folk either,

 

personaly I,ve never had a beardie type but I,ve had two borders ( or three if you count the whippet lol ) and they suit me fine

 

both border collie types I,ve had have also had bull in the mix so maybe this has helped to cancel out any nervousness, not sure on that one though

 

I may have a dog in the future with with a mix of beardie/border (maybe )

 

[BLACKWATER... 157]

had beardie crosses saw several pure ones on the hill and no a few people with them some very fast and plenty bottle, my old mate marc c glenn had a few good ones my dog luke had beardie in him so did there pups lana minni they are not in any way nervous or nesh got balls like bengal tigers top drawer dogs in any mans hands as for borders well not my cup of tea only saw a few i realy liked but saw tons shy nervous hyper no good in a working poaching animal , for all sorts of game,

Edited April 2, 2012 by BLACKWATER...

[KittleRox 2,147]

thats the peace shattered

[BLACKWATER... 157]

no peace without knowledge something that some will never grasp lol grass hopper

[spindolero 1,111]

had beardie crosses saw several pure ones on the hill and no a few people with them some very fast and plenty bottle, my old mate marc c glenn had a few good ones my dog luke had beardie in him so did there pups lana minni they are not in any way nervous or nesh got balls like bengal tigers top drawer dogs in any mans hands as for borders well not my cup of tea only saw a few i realy liked but saw tons shy nervous hyper no good in a working poaching animal , for all sorts of game,

 

back then were they good finders and killers of foxes on the hill (single handed)?