Non cert Holder

[Hawkeye. 26]

Is a non certificate holder allowed to fire a rifle owned by a certificate holder and accompanied by the certifcate holder at a paper target or any live quarry stated on the certificate holder's certificate?

[COMPO 54]

sec 22 of the firearms act.......yes

[The one 8,529]

I let my son do it when im out with him i call it supervising

[richmcgin 32]

That would be Section 11 of the firearms act.

[SportingShooter 0]

Neither of those sections from what I can gather relate specifically to someone shooting a S.1 firearm without a certificate.

 

S.11 is the exemption which is used by rifles clubs, clay clubs etc to allow them to lend guns for the purpose of shooting whilst at that event, not as a general exemption to every such activity. Sporting shooting is not specifically mentioned in that section. The most relevant part of that section is that minors are allowed to carry firearms and ammunition without certificate for the use of the person who owns them, not themselves.

 

S.22 is the exemption for minors to be in possession of firearms and ammunition under certain circumstances and not less than 14 years of age unless they are exempt by the provisions of S.11. Not for them to shoot those firearms.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/contents

[Hawkeye. 26]

thanks for your views, FEO calling tomorrow about variation, i'll ask him

[SportingShooter 0]

thanks for your views, FEO calling tomorrow about variation, i'll ask him

 

Just re-read your original question.

 

If the person you intend to shoot with is over the age of 17 then there are differing views, as is always the case with Firearms law in the UK.

 

S.16 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 covers what is known as the "Estate Condition"

 

This condition/section allows the use of a borrowed rifle on private premises providing that the rifle is borrowed from the "occupier or his servant" of those premises and is used in their presence.

 

Now, there is no definition of an occupier or servant in law. Some police licensing departments take the view that the occupier is someone who lives on those private premises and a servant is someone in their employ and the rifle may only be borrowed from them and used in their presence. This view is not set in law and is open to interpretation as I don't believe there has been a test case to provide case law.

 

The Home Office guidance however states that the definition of occupier should come from S.27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1988 which gives a much broader view of who an occupier might be. According to this definition, anyone who has permission to shoot, fish or hunt on the land is classed as an occupier and therefore by that definition, any certificate holder with permission to shoot on that piece of land may lend a gun to someone over 17 to shoot it in their presence.

 

"Presence" is normally held to be within earshot but the level of supervision needs to be determined by the lender.

 

I realise this is quite technical but it is a bone of contention with me as I've had personal experience of the idiocy of some licensing departments and enquiry officers who clearly have never read a copy of either the original statute or the H.O Guidance.

 

Regards

SS

[Hawkeye. 26]

Does it state shotgun or rifle? Are there different conditions for shotguns and rifles in the section you refer to?

[PlasticJock 539]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone has a space on their ticket for say a .308, that person can borrow a rifle from another .308 holder for up to 72 hours, after which the FEO must be informed, forms filled etc?

[PMC 2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone has a space on their ticket for say a .308, that person can borrow a rifle from another .308 holder for up to 72 hours, after which the FEO must be informed, forms filled etc?

 

I think the 72 hour rule regarding lending applies to shotguns only. S1 firearms are a different thing altogether. There was a thread about the lending of firearms a couple of days ago with much more clued up people than myself answering that particular question.

 

PMC

[Rake aboot 4,936]

Lending Sec 1 stuff is a no no

 

To answer the OP,, the "estate rifle facilty" covers the shooting of a firearm by a non fac holder,, It`s why anyone can book stalking on an estate and use their rifle.

 

SO the short answer is ,,yes

[SportingShooter 0]

Lending Sec 1 stuff is a no no

 

To answer the OP,, the "estate rifle facilty" covers the shooting of a firearm by a non fac holder,, It`s why anyone can book stalking on an estate and use their rifle.

 

SO the short answer is ,,yes