Brother to sister mating is it to close,

[jeemes 4,484]

On 11/06/2022 at 10:31, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

Wether you think your dog's don't need improving doesn't change anything...if you inbred heavily they will decrease in quality, that's just how breeding works, it's not my opinion, it's just what happens. For folk to think that you can continually breed from the same small gene pool of dogs and get the same results time and time again is really just ignorance.

 

A pint of milk?

When you say "its just what happens" Wheres your evidence? I mean apart from studies on google I mean. I am certainly not saying you can breed indefinitely in.  The idea is to fix traits or putting it another way to make the animal double dominant for the desired traits mental or physical. So on that basis if you had a dog that was DD for all the traits you wanted in your dog, say courage, drive, speed,stamina,intelligence plus physically sound, great feet, etc etc He would be a prepotent animal that would mask any recessive faults in bitches put to him and likely to produce good offspring. 

Through Line breeding (slow) or inbreeding (quick) you can bring about this purity of strain, whether its dogs ferrets, pigeons etc and so improving stock as recessives through selection are removed. 

Have a look at the pedigree of" Purity". An agricultural animal that has been pure for hundreds of years. Her sire Mercury was a great producer. Saturn and Rhea were obviously quality animals to start with. I wont say what the animals were but they were and are judged on what they produce.

Im not saying inbreeding cant go wrong. I know it can, especially if its practiced haphazardly or with sentimentality but Wheres your evidence that it cannot go well.

[mC HULL 12,523]

6 minutes ago, jeemes said:

When you say "its just what happens" Wheres your evidence? I mean apart from studies on google I mean. I am certainly not saying you can breed indefinitely in.  The idea is to fix traits or putting it another way to make the animal double dominant for the desired traits mental or physical. So on that basis if you had a dog that was DD for all the traits you wanted in your dog, say courage, drive, speed,stamina,intelligence plus physically sound, great feet, etc etc He would be a prepotent animal that would mask any recessive faults in bitches put to him and likely to produce good offspring. 

Through Line breeding (slow) or inbreeding (quick) you can bring about this purity of strain, whether its dogs ferrets, pigeons etc and so improving stock as recessives through selection are removed. 

Have a look at the pedigree of" Purity". An agricultural animal that has been pure for hundreds of years. Her sire Mercury was a great producer. Saturn and Rhea were obviously quality animals to start with. I wont say what the animals were but they were and are judged on what they produce.

Im not saying inbreeding cant go wrong. I know it can, especially if its practiced haphazardly or with sentimentality but Wheres your evidence that it cannot go well.

no one in the right mind would breed dogs like that mate  

[mC HULL 12,523]

evidence ron’s 3 gen brother sister  

 

[mC HULL 12,523]

saluki bred farther daughter it’s a bad idea  

[Black neck 15,970]

2 hours ago, baker boy said:

Im up for it mate, knees are proper fckt along with everything else, got a defib in the van in case things go wrong, cant be too careful

If u can lend me the grand 

[Black neck 15,970]

2 hours ago, Franks dad said:

You along with “old Phil” seem to be among the most genuine and clued up on this site tbh , not saying there aren’t others … but from what I’ve read in the last 4/5months …. You are respectful of others and post informative information, and can also have the craic (.mr  Black neck  just has the craic ) ……. And don’t think I’ve seen either of you slate others dogs ? … not creeping or sucking up , just how I see it …… came on here to lurk and learn about my dogs traits ( the chunky lunker , bullyx  waste of space lurcher that’s more clever than any dog I’ve had ) and ,being me if you knew me which no one does or can vouch for me which no one can , I say it how I see , I don’t no much , but I’ve been around a little while and , when I smell it , I no what the smell is …..

Am I a joke 2 u

[Bosun11 537]

1 minute ago, Black neck said:

Am I a joke 2 u

We love ya Blacky, pay no heed...

[Black neck 15,970]

16 minutes ago, Bosun11 said:

We love ya Blacky, pay no heed...

I dint get where I am today by paying heeds

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

1 hour ago, jeemes said:

When you say "its just what happens" Wheres your evidence? I mean apart from studies on google I mean. I am certainly not saying you can breed indefinitely in.  The idea is to fix traits or putting it another way to make the animal double dominant for the desired traits mental or physical. So on that basis if you had a dog that was DD for all the traits you wanted in your dog, say courage, drive, speed,stamina,intelligence plus physically sound, great feet, etc etc He would be a prepotent animal that would mask any recessive faults in bitches put to him and likely to produce good offspring. 

Through Line breeding (slow) or inbreeding (quick) you can bring about this purity of strain, whether its dogs ferrets, pigeons etc and so improving stock as recessives through selection are removed. 

Have a look at the pedigree of" Purity". An agricultural animal that has been pure for hundreds of years. Her sire Mercury was a great producer. Saturn and Rhea were obviously quality animals to start with. I wont say what the animals were but they were and are judged on what they produce.

Im not saying inbreeding cant go wrong. I know it can, especially if its practiced haphazardly or with sentimentality but Wheres your evidence that it cannot go well.

That's interesting mate and I don't dispute that such a breeding program would be or is, the way to go forward with livestock in your example above. But personally I don't think such a process for dog breeding is the right approach. Surely the difference's are that livestock are herd animals, the less brain the better, the more domesticated the better, etc. Dogs are not the same in anyway, nor the jobs that we ask them to do.

When we know that a small gene pool gives less to work with and nothing new to add, why would you conclude that overall health and genes will be strong or continue to improve?

Inbreeding over time with little input from outside the gene pool of dogs will result in weaknesses. I've already said I agree that a certain amount of inbreeding is necessary to establish a line and then things can go forward, but brother to sister is too close in my opinion. 

Out of interest, were the parents of your blue dog you posted up blue in colour and did you start with a first cross as the dog to begin your line? Genuinely interested, but it stands to reason that too close will result in recessive traits which are recessive genes so of what benefit is that so early on in the line? Good luck with your breeding though, you obviously put thought into your approach to it mate. Cheers

[jeemes 4,484]

All closely bred

[jeemes 4,484]

4 minutes ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

That's interesting mate and I don't dispute that such a breeding program would be or is, the way to go forward with livestock in your example above. But personally I don't think such a process for dog breeding is the right approach. Surely the difference's are that livestock are herd animals, the less brain the better, the more domesticated the better, etc. Dogs are not the same in anyway, nor the jobs that we ask them to do.

When we know that a small gene pool gives less to work with and nothing new to add, why would you conclude that overall health and genes will be strong or continue to improve?

Inbreeding over time with little input from outside the gene pool of dogs will result in weaknesses. I've already said I agree that a certain amount of inbreeding is necessary to establish a line and then things can go forward, but brother to sister is too close in my opinion. 

Out of interest, were the parents of your blue dog you posted up blue in colour and did you start with a first cross as the dog to begin your line? Genuinely interested, but it stands to reason that too close will result in recessive traits which are recessive genes so of what benefit is that so early on in the line? Good luck with your breeding though, you obviously put thought into your approach to it mate. Cheers

Thanks but how does a dogs genes differ from any other animals apart from them being of a dog or any other animal. How does breeding in produce recessive traits? 

[mC HULL 12,523]

15 minutes ago, jeemes said:

All closely bred

top one looks racey good bit a length to it

Edited June 12, 2022 by mC HULL

[mC HULL 12,523]

Just now, jeemes said:

Thanks but how does a dogs genes differ from any other animals apart from them being of a dog or any other animal. How does breeding in produce recessive traits? 

i know a few stockmen sheep bulls etc none inbreed jeemes ? for the reason you have still births problems ?

[jeemes 4,484]

1 minute ago, mC HULL said:

i know a few stockmen sheep bulls etc none inbreed jeemes ? for the reason you have still births problems ?

Do you think there stock have always been outcrossed?

 

[jeemes 4,484]

5 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

i know a few stockmen sheep bulls etc none inbreed jeemes ? for the reason you have still births problems ?

How do you think the still births occur because of inbreeding?