Breeding Genetics?? Info please

[Francentey-FTB 29]

Hi all, please bare with me.

 

I keep planning a mating in my head, some will not agree but others will, well here is the scenario,

 

My hunting Partner has an old Russell dog, he is well tested and has great attributes, in all fairness is a joy to own, and most of all is a WORKING dog, he is now nearing 9years old and in all fairness cant see him lasting for anything more then another 2years, he had two broken legs when younger due to misfortune and now he's really struggling to get around, arthritis has really got hold him imo and he has lost alot of his bounce just recently...

 

now this is the dilemma in my head, I own the only dog out of the above dog, she's a Border X Russell, herself a great worker, above and will have a go below, she has her short comings but thats due to having too much drive which imo is not a bad thing for a working terrier.

 

I keep thinking to put her father back across her, both dogs are well known to myself, and it would be a good mating on paper, the bitches border ancestry makes the mating a little more diverse, but i dont want any defects within the pups. i know the chances would go up as its father X daughter mating, but how high are the chances of it - thats aimed at you experienced line breeders, and on another note whats the chances of the pups being white??? this would be preferred?

 

I know the Russell is tightly bred, being of old Ken Gould stuff,

 

All this is thoughts so don't shoot me down, and in all fairness line breeding is the key to alot of very successful breeding plans,

 

if the above didn't happen as I am not in a mjor rush for a pup, would there be white bodied pups if i pup a different russell across her?? she is red like a border

 

Thanks Fran FTB

[juckler123 707]

Trouble with your plan is where do you go next brother sister ive had to do father daughter matings in the past to keep a line going only reason i would do it but then you have to outcross or your stuck if the sire hasnt any other offspring.

If you have the chance be better finding a bitch related to yours to put the old dog across then breed the pup from that mating to your bitch be a better way in a perfect world.

I did two father daughter matings myself offspring were varied one large pup one small but nothing worse than that one bitch was hyper but didnt mind that in a hunter.

[Raymond 618]

Hi all, please bare with me.

 

I keep planning a mating in my head, some will not agree but others will, well here is the scenario,

 

My hunting Partner has an old Russell dog, he is well tested and has great attributes, in all fairness is a joy to own, and most of all is a WORKING dog, he is now nearing 9years old and in all fairness cant see him lasting for anything more then another 2years, he had two broken legs when younger due to misfortune and now he's really struggling to get around, arthritis has really got hold him imo and he has lost alot of his bounce just recently...

 

now this is the dilemma in my head, I own the only dog out of the above dog, she's a Border X Russell, herself a great worker, above and will have a go below, she has her short comings but thats due to having too much drive which imo is not a bad thing for a working terrier.

 

I keep thinking to put her father back across her, both dogs are well known to myself, and it would be a good mating on paper, the bitches border ancestry makes the mating a little more diverse, but i dont want any defects within the pups. i know the chances would go up as its father X daughter mating, but how high are the chances of it - thats aimed at you experienced line breeders, and on another note whats the chances of the pups being white??? this would be preferred?

 

I know the Russell is tightly bred, being of old Ken Gould stuff,

 

All this is thoughts so don't shoot me down, and in all fairness line breeding is the key to alot of very successful breeding plans,

 

if the above didn't happen as I am not in a mjor rush for a pup, would there be white bodied pups if i pup a different russell across her?? she is red like a border

 

Thanks Fran FTB

Ive done similar breedings with no problems. One of the dilemas that could surface is.If dog and bitch have any recessive genes in them that match up. If the recessive genes are negative then you will get negative results in the pups. With the dog being the age he is I think you should breed him before hes too old. Around 7 to 8 years old a dogs sperm count lessens. So if its a pup out of the dog you want and you dont want to breed him to his daughter find another bitch to breed him to before its too late. Dont get me wrong theres been dogs bred from older than the above and pups where produced.

[Francentey-FTB 29]

thanks for input, i have thought about putting the dog across another bitch, its picking the right bitch though, and being the right time to run a pup on, i understand the sperm lessens and if it does it one of them things, I'd be happy with one or two pups, cheers guys,

 

on another note any heads up on the white coming out in the pups, or would it be unlikely??

[Kye 77]

imo, there no real dilema...make the breeding, any with defects, deal with it when it happens....also, if there being bred for work, dont worry about colour. Place the pups with close friends, and go from there.

[bunnys 1,228]

I WOULD HAVE NO DOUBT , GO AHEAD WITH THE BREEDING , THE DIVERSITY HIS A PLENTY , DO NOT WORRY ABOUT DEFFECTS THERE WILL BE NONE PHENOTYPE OR GENOTYPW . when one needs to breed again from the line of course that his the line his worth perpetuating , out cross to a similiar line bred type for the necesary working qualitys . , the line will then be topped up with the vigour the diversity will all so become stronger . and the inbreeding will takwe presitence and type will start to become fixed . the knowing when to cull his the working dogmans niche . has his the opposite with the pedigree dog breeders who breed just for the coin , and and influence in dog dom ,atb bunnys.ps one needs to consider the crossbred his a million miles from the pedigree with a closed gene pool dwindled away .

[Francentey-FTB 29]

no worried about colour, not worried about number of pups or money just one and i would be happy,

 

we all have what we like and i would like a russell coloured type if it would happen just because thats preferred, just to being a sentimental sod and I lwould like a pup the mould of the Sire if possible, on my bitch he has stamped his mould all over her, good size, good head, great worker, she's just took to her mother on the border Red!

 

Thats no biggie though as its only a colour, thanks for input guys and this mating will be happening, just hope we can get it at the right time, thanks again for good knowledgeable advice, massively appreciated

[BredtoHunt 8]

If breeding was a perfect science you would get 1/2 white bodied 1/2 coloured. Genetics seem to pay no attention to mathematics so the outcome will only be known after the litter is here. Good Luck.

 

[TOPPER 1,809]

ive bred father over daughter loads of times without problems you just have to be selective and not afraid to cull hard if need be, id do the mating and maybe hold a dog and a bitch back to run on then find something of similar breeding to go back to .

[bristol tim 135]

ive bred father over daughter loads of times without problems you just have to be selective and not afraid to cull hard if need be, id do the mating and maybe hold a dog and a bitch back to run on then find something of similar breeding to go back to .

[Francentey-FTB 29]

whats up with Toppers post Tim?? perfect sense in it, i just wanted confirming, cheers Topper, do you still keep the bedlingtons if so give me a pm please

[bristol tim 135]

whats up with Toppers post Tim?? perfect sense in it, i just wanted confirming, cheers Topper, do you still keep the bedlingtons if so give me a pm please

i know what he breeds and its beddy crosses Edited February 29, 2012 by bristol tim

[TOPPER 1,809]

tim , you cant tell the difference between a bedlington and a bedy cross

[snowman 37]

whats up with Toppers post Tim?? perfect sense in it, i just wanted confirming, cheers Topper, do you still keep the bedlingtons if so give me a pm please

i know what he breeds and its beddy crosses

timmys of again lol. timmy luvs topper really. Edited February 29, 2012 by snowman

[bristol tim 135]

tim , you cant tell the difference between a bedlington and a bedy cross

yeh ok roger maybe its time for you to go to speck savers

tim , you cant tell the difference between a bedlington and a bedy cross

but what have you got then? pure or crosses?