Shooting of hares

[danw 1,748]

Have you been on many hare drives Jesus? Or is this just an opinion made from 'what you've heard'.

 

And as for suggesting that anyone who shoots driven game is somehow less of a sportsman, I think a few may disagree.

 

Ignorance and intolerance is something we all fought against. It seems that there is an enemy within.

 

As someone else has already said; what a bunch of hypocrites, some of whom are no better than the likes of LACS, Animal Aid etc.

 

Now i'm not being funny, or incitful R.Docks, but you are a fairly frustrating man to have any kind of disagreement with (just looking over your previous works).

 

SO. . . . .

 

I grew up around shooting estates (my old man, being a well respected spaniel man) and so i have seen a good few hare shoots, but i have never shot a hare in my life, it's just not my thing, and that goes long before i ever got into running dogs myself.

 

I was not suggesting that someone who shot driven game was 'less of a sportsman', what i said was that in my eyes (and we are all entitled to an opinion), it's just not really hunting. And firstly, for the record, i'm not a gun hater etc, i have a cabinet full of shotguns upstairs, i'm currently looking out of my window at acres upon acres of pheasant shoot, i'm out working on the shoot every week all year, and just got offered the leepering job. However, all that aside, standing in a field on a numbered peg, and trying to drop birds that are being driven over the top of you, isnt hunting. They might as well be clays, its just more interesting when it's birds. Don't get me wrong, the beaters are hunting, but the guns. . . . not in my eyes.

 

Same with a hare drive, standing in a line, while they are driven past and you all take a shot, it's pest control (although not how i would do it if those hares needed killing), it's shooting, but i can't see it as 'hunting' or a 'sport'. It's just a neccessary job that needs doing, and i cant really see where the enjoyment comes for some folk? I'm willing to have it explained to me though?

 

"Ignorance and intolerance is something we all fought against" ??? I assume you refer to the ban? I get the impression that actually we 'all' didn't, as i know large numbers of shooters who didnt lift a finger to change the path of the ban, and in fact see dog work as some kind of cruel, and uneccessary passtime, when the animal could just be shot instead.

 

And to your final point, it was not really lacs, or any of that lot who were the biggest driving force behind the ban, it was the muppets who conducted themselves in a negative way, took photos of it etc and were proud. We have alwats had an emeny within, and that's why i have never felt 'as one' with most 'hunters'.

 

So to sum up, i accept that hares sometimes need killing in large numbers, but it could be done in a better way, and i don't understand how folk can enjoy and think they are sportsmen for standing in a line shooting large, confused targets as they waltz by them.

 

 

strangely I can point the finger at a lot of dogmen as did f**k all about the ban as well

[Ideation 8,216]

I think it's the mass killing.

 

It's like a driven pheasant shooter, he isn't a hunter, he is just a shooter. Same with hare drives, it's not hunting, it's just a cull, a means to an end. Fair enough when and where it needs to be done, but taking a lot of pleasure in it, and thinking the numbers mean anything?

 

It's pretty incredulous that lacs etc got such a hard on over coursing, and yet never really kicked up a storm over the drives.

 

There is a definate beauty in a good course, whereas i totally fail to see anything other than unfortunate practicality in a hare drive, it's not even hard.

 

 

 

so speaking of hypocrisy 75 rabbits ferreted in a day is worth a slap on the back then? guess sometimes it's all about the numbers.

 

Come on danny boy, you know what i am saying. People can do what they need to do.

 

I was not saying that killing large numbers of them is evil and wrong, sometimes it's just a neccessity, but i was pointing out that seeing large numbers of a species like that killed in one go, will always raise blood pressures in some folk. Rabbits don't seem to have the same affect, nor do rats, but that's just life.

 

We had a similar one with the boar here, there was a population, which was being shot here and there, fine. But then they started to feed them into areas and do mass night shoots, ripped the guts out of the population. Needed, perhaps. . . sport. . . no, just a cull.

 

It's a strange one of grasp for me as well, as there is not a single hare around here, there used to be, but they were shot (and dogged) to extinction.

[Ideation 8,216]

Have you been on many hare drives Jesus? Or is this just an opinion made from 'what you've heard'.

 

And as for suggesting that anyone who shoots driven game is somehow less of a sportsman, I think a few may disagree.

 

Ignorance and intolerance is something we all fought against. It seems that there is an enemy within.

 

As someone else has already said; what a bunch of hypocrites, some of whom are no better than the likes of LACS, Animal Aid etc.

 

Now i'm not being funny, or incitful R.Docks, but you are a fairly frustrating man to have any kind of disagreement with (just looking over your previous works).

 

SO. . . . .

 

I grew up around shooting estates (my old man, being a well respected spaniel man) and so i have seen a good few hare shoots, but i have never shot a hare in my life, it's just not my thing, and that goes long before i ever got into running dogs myself.

 

I was not suggesting that someone who shot driven game was 'less of a sportsman', what i said was that in my eyes (and we are all entitled to an opinion), it's just not really hunting. And firstly, for the record, i'm not a gun hater etc, i have a cabinet full of shotguns upstairs, i'm currently looking out of my window at acres upon acres of pheasant shoot, i'm out working on the shoot every week all year, and just got offered the leepering job. However, all that aside, standing in a field on a numbered peg, and trying to drop birds that are being driven over the top of you, isnt hunting. They might as well be clays, its just more interesting when it's birds. Don't get me wrong, the beaters are hunting, but the guns. . . . not in my eyes.

 

Same with a hare drive, standing in a line, while they are driven past and you all take a shot, it's pest control (although not how i would do it if those hares needed killing), it's shooting, but i can't see it as 'hunting' or a 'sport'. It's just a neccessary job that needs doing, and i cant really see where the enjoyment comes for some folk? I'm willing to have it explained to me though?

 

"Ignorance and intolerance is something we all fought against" ??? I assume you refer to the ban? I get the impression that actually we 'all' didn't, as i know large numbers of shooters who didnt lift a finger to change the path of the ban, and in fact see dog work as some kind of cruel, and uneccessary passtime, when the animal could just be shot instead.

 

And to your final point, it was not really lacs, or any of that lot who were the biggest driving force behind the ban, it was the muppets who conducted themselves in a negative way, took photos of it etc and were proud. We have alwats had an emeny within, and that's why i have never felt 'as one' with most 'hunters'.

 

So to sum up, i accept that hares sometimes need killing in large numbers, but it could be done in a better way, and i don't understand how folk can enjoy and think they are sportsmen for standing in a line shooting large, confused targets as they waltz by them.

 

 

strangely I can point the finger at a lot of dogmen as did f**k all about the ban as well

 

Yes mate, mostly as they are lazy, ignorant wankers.

 

I am not for one moment suggsting that all dog men are some kind of merry band. I don't like most folk, whatever way they choose to hunt. Most people are wankers.

[IanB 0]

Yes as has been said what about ferreting to nets is that sporting??? Every escape point covered and a demon entered, no escape, killed in your own luxury 10 hole pad or enmeshed in a net with a broken kneck at the end...

 

Is that sporting?

 

Theres only two things truely sporting on here... running an animal SINGLE handed daytime any animal with a dog or flying a hawk...

 

So if people want a sporting chance for everything they should hang up there lamps, ditch there snares, guns, nets, etc ..

 

Or get a dog and call everyone else unsporting Although you will be out doubling up your dogs on the lamp later..

 

You can never change peoples opinions, but some are so blinkered the mind boggles...

[R. Docks 154]

A very wise man once said to me;

 

"Just because he's a wanker doesn't mean that he's always wrong".

 

Ideation, I don't know why you think I'm hard to have a logical debate with; I find you an interesting and stimulating person to debate with.

 

While I appreciate that driven hare shooting isn't everyone's cup of tea, I don't think it helps anyone to condemn it and constantly slag off the shooting community.

[danw 1,748]

Have you been on many hare drives Jesus? Or is this just an opinion made from 'what you've heard'.

 

And as for suggesting that anyone who shoots driven game is somehow less of a sportsman, I think a few may disagree.

 

Ignorance and intolerance is something we all fought against. It seems that there is an enemy within.

 

As someone else has already said; what a bunch of hypocrites, some of whom are no better than the likes of LACS, Animal Aid etc.

 

Now i'm not being funny, or incitful R.Docks, but you are a fairly frustrating man to have any kind of disagreement with (just looking over your previous works).

 

SO. . . . .

 

I grew up around shooting estates (my old man, being a well respected spaniel man) and so i have seen a good few hare shoots, but i have never shot a hare in my life, it's just not my thing, and that goes long before i ever got into running dogs myself.

 

I was not suggesting that someone who shot driven game was 'less of a sportsman', what i said was that in my eyes (and we are all entitled to an opinion), it's just not really hunting. And firstly, for the record, i'm not a gun hater etc, i have a cabinet full of shotguns upstairs, i'm currently looking out of my window at acres upon acres of pheasant shoot, i'm out working on the shoot every week all year, and just got offered the leepering job. However, all that aside, standing in a field on a numbered peg, and trying to drop birds that are being driven over the top of you, isnt hunting. They might as well be clays, its just more interesting when it's birds. Don't get me wrong, the beaters are hunting, but the guns. . . . not in my eyes.

 

Same with a hare drive, standing in a line, while they are driven past and you all take a shot, it's pest control (although not how i would do it if those hares needed killing), it's shooting, but i can't see it as 'hunting' or a 'sport'. It's just a neccessary job that needs doing, and i cant really see where the enjoyment comes for some folk? I'm willing to have it explained to me though?

 

"Ignorance and intolerance is something we all fought against" ??? I assume you refer to the ban? I get the impression that actually we 'all' didn't, as i know large numbers of shooters who didnt lift a finger to change the path of the ban, and in fact see dog work as some kind of cruel, and uneccessary passtime, when the animal could just be shot instead.

 

And to your final point, it was not really lacs, or any of that lot who were the biggest driving force behind the ban, it was the muppets who conducted themselves in a negative way, took photos of it etc and were proud. We have alwats had an emeny within, and that's why i have never felt 'as one' with most 'hunters'.

 

So to sum up, i accept that hares sometimes need killing in large numbers, but it could be done in a better way, and i don't understand how folk can enjoy and think they are sportsmen for standing in a line shooting large, confused targets as they waltz by them.

 

 

strangely I can point the finger at a lot of dogmen as did f**k all about the ban as well

 

Yes mate, mostly as they are lazy, ignorant wankers.

 

I am not for one moment suggsting that all dog men are some kind of merry band. I don't like most folk, whatever way they choose to hunt. Most people are wankers.

 

 

totally agree there mate I find it very hard to like anyone including myself most the time

 

P,s fair play on being offered the keepering job are you taking it?

Edited February 26, 2012 by danw

[RubyTex 1,957]

Where are you getting your facts from there Max? I would expect if they were in range of a shotgun if one barrel doesn't do it the next one does.

 

There is actual Video footage out there of Hares getting legged , on mass hare shoots and crawling away to die slow.

 

Im all for Hunting and Sport but i could never condone Hare shooting , Never. Sorry if this pisses some off its just my Opinion.

They are for Running .

 

The Gun is Indiscriminate, it will Kill Fit and Healthy as well as old or diseased.

Coursing tends to deal with the weak, the old and diseased thus giving a Healthy Stronger race of Hares after a Few seasons Coursing on any said land,

Coursing is Beneficial to the Species, Shooting definatley aint.

 

Links please.

 

It's hardly sporting to run a dog at an old or unwell animal, is it? Almost as easy to kill a hare as say, a shotgun would!

[Ideation 8,216]

I wasn't really arguing about wheather it is sporting or not, i mean, most 'sports' at the end of the day you try to do everything you can to tip things in your favour. I was more just suggesting that i find it hard to see it is 'hunting'. But that's just my view. I don't condem it though. I guess like most things, it's less what you are doing, and more how you do it. I see a lot of folk involved wit fieldsports, that if you dropped them in 'the wilderness' or even just the british countryside, and asked them to fend for themselves, would starve to death, or end up poisoning themselves, but that is perhaps another debate.

 

There are so many folk into 'hunting', be it with gun or dog, that have a frighteningly limited grasp of nature, biology, the natural world around them etc. I think one of the worst i've stumbled across was on the air rifle section, where a respected member was showing photos of a 'hare' he shot. . . . it was a rabbit. Same with, can my dog catch mixy, and a whole host of other questions and queries. It's both dog men and gun men, before any one takes umbridge.

 

When it comes to culling hares etc, i just think its another thing that should be done on the quiet, and not made into a big scene, it;s a bit distasteful, but it's needed. What gets me is the folk who think its a really enjoyable, sporting days hunting. It's like digging cubs, or lamping baby rabbits with the gun. Its needed sometimes, but probably not something you should do with pride etc. It's just a job to be got on with.

 

R.Docks - i apologise mate, i was a bit tired this morning, and grumpy.

 

Dan - Yes mate, i think i am Might be picking your brains at some point.

 

Rubytex - i take it you are young. Before you enter into that debate, have a think, if you culled a herd / group (whatever) of any animal, with a gun, or a dog, which will result in the healthier, stronger population, of better specimins? At the end of the day, which, the gun or the dog, will better select out the old or unwell? Been out with trophy shooters, and they always want the big lad at the front, whereas i'd be happy picking off the straggler at the back.

[R. Docks 154]

R.Docks - i apologise mate, i was a bit tired this morning, and grumpy.

 

Apology accepted with pleasure

 

I happen to agree with you on many of the points you raise.

 

What gets me going is all this 'hares should only be run with dogs' nonsense. Each to his own; the fact that you don't want to do something yourself doesn't mean that it should never be done. It's that kind of blinkered ignorance that got us a hunting ban.

 

We might make seven pages yet

[johnny boy68 11,726]

I'm not overly worried by it, my feckin dogs couldn't put a bend in a hare anyway.

 

PS....Guns are for gays !!

[skycat 6,173]

I went once, and only once, on a hare drive. This was on land we regularly coursed on. Think of a field full of rabbits, in the numbers most people see rabbits when they disturb them on entering a field. Well the hares were similarly numerous on this particular farm. It was unreal! You barely walked a yard or two before another got up in the same field. We could run this ground over and over again and still never make a dent in the population, even with around 12 dogs killing several each in a day.

 

They simply had to have an annual shoot to keep the numbers down or the farmer would have had no crops to harvest. But I hated that drive: people with shot guns blasting away like Rambos, not really caring if they got a killing shot or not. I saw hares running back past me with half their faces blown away, blood pouring from their heads, and hares dragging themselves along with paralysed hind legs, and no one even bothering to send a gun dog to retrieve them. "Oh, it'll die in a few hours/days" or words like that, they said.

 

That is why I hate guns so much, well, not the guns, but a lot of people who use them. The killing is removed, at a distance from the shooter. They aren't up close and personal when they kill an animal. And a lot of shooters I've seen wouldn't even know how to neck a rabbit, far less a hare, or dispatch a fox or a deer cleanly at close quarters without a gun. It's easy to bang away with a gun and wound something in the distance, and they don't see the suffering they cause as the animal dies slowly over a few hours or days.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against shooters, just the ones who are careless, ignorant and cruel. A gun is a great killing tool in the right hands, but just like in dogs, there's an awful lot of wrong hands around.

[Fat-Ferret 857]

I went once, and only once, on a hare drive. This was on land we regularly coursed on. Think of a field full of rabbits, in the numbers most people see rabbits when they disturb them on entering a field. Well the hares were similarly numerous on this particular farm. It was unreal! You barely walked a yard or two before another got up in the same field. We could run this ground over and over again and still never make a dent in the population, even with around 12 dogs killing several each in a day.

 

They simply had to have an annual shoot to keep the numbers down or the farmer would have had no crops to harvest. But I hated that drive: people with shot guns blasting away like Rambos, not really caring if they got a killing shot or not. I saw hares running back past me with half their faces blown away, blood pouring from their heads, and hares dragging themselves along with paralysed hind legs, and no one even bothering to send a gun dog to retrieve them. "Oh, it'll die in a few hours/days" or words like that, they said.

 

That is why I hate guns so much, well, not the guns, but a lot of people who use them. The killing is removed, at a distance from the shooter. They aren't up close and personal when they kill an animal. And a lot of shooters I've seen wouldn't even know how to neck a rabbit, far less a hare, or dispatch a fox or a deer cleanly at close quarters without a gun. It's easy to bang away with a gun and wound something in the distance, and they don't see the suffering they cause as the animal dies slowly over a few hours or days.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against shooters, just the ones who are careless, ignorant and cruel. A gun is a great killing tool in the right hands, but just like in dogs, there's an awful lot of wrong hands around.

 

[crazyfrog 23]

we had a spot that was crawling with hare ,use to have some great days sport in late 90,s .the ban came in the farmer was still happy for us to use the dogs on rabbits etc ,but he decided to let some guys on and clear up the hares with guns.now we would be lucky to see 3 or 4 on the spot.sad really.

[lanesra 3,994]

The ONLY SHOOTING off hares this time off yr (there pairing up now) should be with a camera

[RubyTex 1,957]

Rubytex - i take it you are young. Before you enter into that debate, have a think, if you culled a herd / group (whatever) of any animal, with a gun, or a dog, which will result in the healthier, stronger population, of better specimins? At the end of the day, which, the gun or the dog, will better select out the old or unwell? Been out with trophy shooters, and they always want the big lad at the front, whereas i'd be happy picking off the straggler at the back.

 

Don't see what that's got to do with anything.

 

The point is, why would landowners WANT a healthier and stronger population on their land? They wouldn't. When dog men say thier dogs are better off going after the weak and older quarry for the 'greater good', what does that say about the faith they have in their dogs ability?

 

Either way, there shouldn't be a problem in how hare are hunted, be it coursed or shot.