Ancient sighthounds

[flinn 47]

I used the term 'Brain washing' earlier..... You bet your life we are... from birth! As to BH's suggestion of taking medication, most of us need a wake up pill! DogFox, some butterflies have wings that look like eyes, others look like leaves etc to fool Predators. I'm saying that they were always like that! Colour changes in moths is nothing, just natural variation. If the Man TPTB) had better examples of Evolution, why would he give you such a crap one as moths changing colour? Its coz they have NO GOOD EXAMPLES so they are grasping at straws in desperation! Think about it!

 

Take it your a fan of David Icke???

No I'm not, the Guy is very bitter and it shows! It offends me when we are served up obvious bull shit time and time again until we believe it. If you don't believe you are property, google CAPITA DIMINUTIO MAXIMA then check out your driving licence, credit cards, utility bills, tax demands etc.... it's not pleasant

 

Very similar to what shite David Ikce speaks about, Id cards, driving licences and so on. I love all these conspiracy theorists, talk about being paranoid.

[2Painless2btrue 11]

Just coz I'm Paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after me! Joke!!!I didn't know that Icke talks about this stuff, I came across it when I was defending myself in court against a speeding fine! Bought a copy of Blacks Law Dictionary.... you wouldn't believe how we've been misled! Not Conspiracy Theory but fact!! He sounds like he might be worth a read then, I DO have an open mind, how about you?

[DogFox123 1,379]

Just coz I'm Paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after me! Joke!!!I didn't know that Icke talks about this stuff, I came across it when I was defending myself in court against a speeding fine! Bought a copy of Blacks Law Dictionary.... you wouldn't believe how we've been misled! Not Conspiracy Theory but fact!! He sounds like he might be worth a read then, I DO have an open mind, how about you?

 

My mind is so open you could swing a cat around inside it, I'm also a realist!

[Richie10 345]

Just coz I'm Paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after me! Joke!!!I didn't know that Icke talks about this stuff, I came across it when I was defending myself in court against a speeding fine! Bought a copy of Blacks Law Dictionary.... you wouldn't believe how we've been misled! Not Conspiracy Theory but fact!! He sounds like he might be worth a read then, I DO have an open mind, how about you?

 

My mind is so open you could swing a cat around inside it, I'm also a realist!

 

Are you talking about the reality you have been fed....hAHHHAHhhhHHAHAhhahahHHA!

[DogFox123 1,379]

Just coz I'm Paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after me! Joke!!!I didn't know that Icke talks about this stuff, I came across it when I was defending myself in court against a speeding fine! Bought a copy of Blacks Law Dictionary.... you wouldn't believe how we've been misled! Not Conspiracy Theory but fact!! He sounds like he might be worth a read then, I DO have an open mind, how about you?

 

My mind is so open you could swing a cat around inside it, I'm also a realist!

 

Are you talking about the reality you have been fed....hAHHHAHhhhHHAHAhhahahHHA!

 

I've always been taught to never eat yellow snow but now I'm having doubts!

[chartpolski 22,826]

Interesting thread ! Painless, you seem to be asking everyone else to open their minds, but it seems to be YOU who are being dogmatic and refusing to at least accept other views MAY be correct !

 

Darwins "Origin of Species" has a very good chapter on how ALL domesticated animals and plants evolved, and it seems to me that domestic dogs developed from different wild dogs in different regions of the world, whereas different types of pigeon seem to ALL evolve from the Rock Dove. BUT, it has been proven that different "types" of domesticated dogs , when left to breed together, ALLWAYS revert to the "Spitz" type !, so even I can see some contradictions in the theory of evolution, but I'll take that theory over the "Catostrophe" one until more evidence arrives ! LOL !

Cheers.

Edited February 22, 2012 by chartpolski

[Sherlock 42]

People who do not except the fact of evolution are determined to delude themselves. Presenting reasoned arguments to them is futile as they have already demonstrated that they have abandoned all reason.

[2Painless2btrue 11]

I'm purposely being inflammatory as I accept Micro-evolution by natural selection eg silver moths on sooty bark. Thats a long way away from Wolf to domestic dog. The running dog is perfection in motion in my eyes, the perfect hunting machine. By your logic it should have evolved naturally.....Survival of the fittest? Does anybody claim it happened by accident? I'm not dogmatic, I'm the one asking questions. Just demonstrate a realistic way that primitive man could have run a breeding programme without any way of keeping his bitches secure from stray dogs. I grew up with packs of dogs chasing any bitch in season on the streets..... latch key dogs when nobody neutered and leash laws were lax! It's not me who's deluded I'm afraid...... Good discussion though!

[2Painless2btrue 11]

People who do not except the fact of evolution are determined to delude themselves. Presenting reasoned arguments to them is futile as they have already demonstrated that they have abandoned all reason.

Sherlock, are nyou a Teacher by any chance?

[Sherlock 42]

You are putting forward what is known as " the argument from personal incredulity" or I can't see it myself". This is not an argument at all as it doe's not present any valid reason or evidence.

[Moll. 1,770]

Wonder how long it will be till we loose our toes

[Born Hunter 17,743]

I'm purposely being inflammatory as I accept Micro-evolution by natural selection eg silver moths on sooty bark. Thats a long way away from Wolf to domestic dog. The running dog is perfection in motion in my eyes, the perfect hunting machine. By your logic it should have evolved naturally No, because survival in nature requires more than what humans did in the perfect sighthound, so no nature would not have produced the perfect running dog. Hence why we have wild wolves etc and not wild greyhounds......Survival of the fittest? Does anybody claim it happened by accident? Not an accident but certainly not an act of an intelligent lifeform, I'm not dogmatic, I'm the one asking questions. Just demonstrate a realistic way that primitive man could have run a breeding programme without any way of keeping his bitches secure from stray dogs. Man aquires wild canine pups by one of the many very plausible ways mentioned, these may possibly have live in a semi feral state in human groups interacting with man and wild canines. A mutual tollerance and bond would have developed through the clear gains working together would have produced. Man being the dominant of the two species would have chosen the canines that it desired as opposed to the other way around. This would have led to the more 'wild' canines to be killed or forced away due to their undesirable character, likewise with individuals that do not pull their weight in the partnership. This would have continued untill the semi feral canines became fully intergrated into the human society and then the true selective breeding would have begun. At that stage it would have been no harder to keep the truely wild stock away from the domestic stock than it is in todays world where humans live in areas with wolves etc. Accidents would of course have still occured but they would have been dealt with I'm sure. That's one possible and plausible answer but obviously not as likely as being created in a lab by our 'pre-catastrophe' human ancestors. I grew up with packs of dogs chasing any bitch in season on the streets..... latch key dogs when nobody neutered and leash laws were lax! It's not me who's deluded I'm afraid...... Good discussion though!

[2Painless2btrue 11]

You are putting forward what is known as " the argument from personal incredulity" or I can't see it myself". This is not an argument at all as it doe's not present any valid reason or evidence.

Yep! I believe it's a case of the Emperors new clothes! Everybody can see it so it must be true! Sorry, if the best evidence you can present for Evolution is a sooty moth then the Emperor is naked! Where are the chimps who Darwin reckons are evolving into Humans? Or did they just stop evolving? Shame that coz that would have been irrefutable evidence.... This thread originated with the remains of a 4000 year old running dog in Egypt. Someone mentioned a Whippet type running dog buried at Stonehenge which was built up to 12,000 years ago! By the way, who built Stonehenge....? Pre-History or Pre- Catastrophy? Have you googled OOPARTS yet?

[Sherlock 42]

No painless I am not a teacher , regarding how did early man keep his bitches from breeding with inferior dogs he probably ate the jackers first the spear chewers second closely followed by the biters and the yappers. Or he might have put his bitches on heat in a purse net and hoisted it up a tree,who knows and who cares.

[skycat 6,173]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that some 'primitive' peoples sow up the vulvas of their bitches to prevent random matings. It is a fact that some tribes in Africa also do/did it to their girl children. They used a thorn and called it 'the wait a bit' thorn. Let's not forget that humans have lived in close proximity to their animals for thousands of years. There are still tribes who hunt with mongrel sighthounds as they have done for millenia. This is discussed in detail in the book 'Dogs' by Raymond and Lorna Coppinger. Very interesting book on the origins of the various canine types found throughout the world, from the flock guardians, to the pack animals and the hunting dogs.

 

Some interesting sites:

 

http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/dogs-in-africa

 

http://www.azawakh-czech.estranky.cz/en/articles/about-the-azawakh/dog-from-the-mosaic.html

 

If you look at the two types of dog featured in the above sites, why is it such a leap to understand how longer legged hunting dogs were created over thousands of years. It figures that the dogs which were the most successful as hunting aides were the ones with the longest legs and best stamina; these would have been favoured, given better food and consequently were better able to raise litters. Nothing happens over night, but it seems logical to me.