Bull Breed Owner's..

[gnasher16 30,025]

its not a theory its out there for everyone to see, but we just dont look for it,

 

blan as you said yourself animals are a product of genes and environment, the drive in the genes is too make contact with something ,we then create the environment for the dog to express his drive energy in what will become a natural process for the dog when channeled ,

 

we have highly driven dogs at work in society controlled by nothing more than a bouncy ball kept by its handler, or access to piece of fabric worn on an arm , so how does that work??

 

It IS a theory because we know that genetics just doesnt work in a robotic fashion...we know this in human life and animal.......the idea within breeding over many generations is to produce a dog who on the average of what his line has to offer is of the highest possible quality......that doesnt mean theres not going to be some very high quality individuals as well as some very low quality individuals,hence the importance on breeding selection...........those dogs of very low quality could be low quality in any area be it physical or mental...........this romantic theory we all love to have of the old " no bad dogs just bad owners " saying.....really is just plain ignorance of genetic inheritance in my opinion.

[Casso 1,261]

its not a theory its out there for everyone to see, but we just dont look for it,

 

blan as you said yourself animals are a product of genes and environment, the drive in the genes is too make contact with something ,we then create the environment for the dog to express his drive energy in what will become a natural process for the dog when channeled ,

 

we have highly driven dogs at work in society controlled by nothing more than a bouncy ball kept by its handler, or access to piece of fabric worn on an arm , so how does that work??

 

It IS a theory because we know that genetics just doesnt work in a robotic fashion...we know this in human life and animal.......the idea within breeding over many generations is to produce a dog who on the average of what his line has to offer is of the highest possible quality......that doesnt mean theres not going to be some very high quality individuals as well as some very low quality individuals,hence the importance on breeding selection...........those dogs of very low quality could be low quality in any area be it physical or mental...........this romantic theory we all love to have of the old " no bad dogs just bad owners " saying.....really is just plain ignorance of genetic inheritance in my opinion.

Genetics is far from robotic, which is exactly why we have possibility in every litter of any breed to fulfill mans wishes and manipulation,

 

Breeding selection which you speak about , fulfills the spectrum of the rainbow, its mother natures way of expecting the unexpected, what i mean is, even out of two top class animals both were at the top of their game, you are still only going to get a group of pups born to fulfill every aspect of the hunt from the direct, most active couple of pups right down to the more indirect pups more submissive if you like, thats in every litter born to any bitch in the world, not matter what quality,which means every litter is a gamble,

 

mother nature covers all openings in any litter she balances every litter from the more nervous watchful types needed in a pack to the confident easy going ones, and is also what genetic inheritance tells us too bud

so we can all pick certain animals from direct dominant types right down to less direct types and hold each up as an example of the breed, the reality of it is, that in every litter there is the possibility for manipulation by man, no question about it,,

 

we're not going back to the" bad dog owner" thing again are we,,

[Kye 77]

I love the Bull types, but imo, a PROPER one does NOT make a great pet,..they are a great deal of work, and need certain things that other types dont need...when people say "its how you bring them up etc"...that IS true to some levell, but there is way more shite out there, that have been bred for non desirable traits such as man aggression and to 'look 'ard as f**k'....a REAL bull dog needs a proper owner, that is aware of what he has in his charge....and if it IS a real Bull, it will be one of the most physically gifted athletes ever created on the earth, with the mental attitude to match it.

[gnasher16 30,025]

Genetics is far from robotic, which is exactly why we have possibility in every litter of any breed to fulfill mans wishes and manipulation,

 

Breeding selection which you speak about , fulfills the spectrum of the rainbow, its mother natures way of expecting the unexpected, what i mean is, even out of two top class animals both were at the top of their game, you are still only going to get a group of pups born to fulfill every aspect of the hunt from the direct, most active couple of pups right down to the more indirect pups more submissive if you like, thats in every litter born to any bitch in the world, not matter what quality,which means every litter is a gamble,

 

mother nature covers all openings in any litter she balances every litter from the more nervous watchful types needed in a pack to the confident easy going ones, and is also what genetic inheritance tells us too bud

so we can all pick certain animals from direct dominant types right down to less direct types and hold each up as an example of the breed, the reality of it is, that in every litter there is the possibility for manipulation by man, no question about it,,

 

we're not going back to the" bad dog owner" thing again are we,,

 

In all fairness mate i can only really understand about half of what your saying.......i honestly cant make head nor tail of whatever the spectrum of the rainbows all about .......but its probably me im not the brightest of sparks.......

I think sometimes we overcomplicate what breeding for performance/work essentially is......ive always felt a basic understanding of genetic inheritance plus an in depth understanding of the sport/work itself and the dogs we are breeding,along with basic common sense will usually give good results........no athletic dog was ever bred in a laboratory so all the Bb + bb alleles in the world are going to replace basic common sense and a good eye for a dog......

The basic concept of how we breed dogs should be the same regardless what the breed.....we should use all the tools available be it inbreeding,linebreeding or outcrossing we are not breeding sweet pet dogs so myself i couldnt give a shit about a dogs sweet nature if that dog cant or wont perform.......that attitude means their is likely to be dogs of less than perfect character thrown up occasionally.

There are so many variables in breeding we just have to stack the odds in our favour......folk normally breed best to best...............and hope for the best,however to me that is playing the genetic lottery a well bred litter is a litter where you can predict within reason what is going to come out......you can have 1 single great dog out of an otherwise crap litter.....there is absolutely no reason why that dog would produce better pups than any of his inferior siblings as they all share the same genetic make up.....many years ago i used an average dog of a litter instead of his very well known litter brother who was a great dog in his own right....yet the quality he produced was on par if not better and the subsequent generations after that were in my opinion better than his well known brother produced.......

Different requirements of a dog will throw up different breeding plans.....but the basic principals remain the same.

Edited March 5, 2012 by gnasher16

[Strong Stuff 2,171]

Genetics is far from robotic, which is exactly why we have possibility in every litter of any breed to fulfill mans wishes and manipulation,

 

Breeding selection which you speak about , fulfills the spectrum of the rainbow, its mother natures way of expecting the unexpected, what i mean is, even out of two top class animals both were at the top of their game, you are still only going to get a group of pups born to fulfill every aspect of the hunt from the direct, most active couple of pups right down to the more indirect pups more submissive if you like, thats in every litter born to any bitch in the world, not matter what quality,which means every litter is a gamble,

 

mother nature covers all openings in any litter she balances every litter from the more nervous watchful types needed in a pack to the confident easy going ones, and is also what genetic inheritance tells us too bud

so we can all pick certain animals from direct dominant types right down to less direct types and hold each up as an example of the breed, the reality of it is, that in every litter there is the possibility for manipulation by man, no question about it,,

 

we're not going back to the" bad dog owner" thing again are we,,

 

In all fairness mate i can only really understand about half of what your saying.......i honestly cant make head nor tail of whatever the spectrum of the rainbows all about .......but its probably me im not the brightest of sparks.......

I think sometimes we overcomplicate what breeding for performance/work essentially is......ive always felt a basic understanding of genetic inheritance plus an in depth understanding of the sport/work itself and the dogs we are breeding,along with basic common sense will usually give good results........no athletic dog was ever bred in a laboratory so all the Bb + bb alleles in the world are going to replace basic common sense and a good eye for a dog......

The basic concept of how we breed dogs should be the same regardless what the breed.....we should use all the tools available be it inbreeding,linebreeding or outcrossing we are not breeding sweet pet dogs so myself i couldnt give a shit about a dogs sweet nature if that dog cant or wont perform.......that attitude means their is likely to be dogs of less than perfect character thrown up occasionally.

There are so many variables in breeding we just have to stack the odds in our favour......folk normally breed best to best...............and hope for the best,however to me that is playing the genetic lottery a well bred litter is a litter where you can predict within reason what is going to come out......you can have 1 single great dog out of an otherwise crap litter.....there is absolutely no reason why that dog would produce better pups than any of his inferior siblings as they all share the same genetic make up.....many years ago i used an average dog of a litter instead of his very well known litter brother who was a great dog in his own right....yet the quality he produced was on par if not better and the subsequent generations after that were in my opinion better than his well known brother produced.......

Different requirements of a dog will throw up different breeding plans.....but the basic principals remain the same.

 

Did you ever own a winning dog? As straightforward a question as it sounds.

[gnasher16 30,025]

Did you ever own a winning dog? As straightforward a question as it sounds.

 

Yes i once owned a few greyhounds that won the odd A1 race at Walthamstow trained by Mick Puzey.....

 

straightforward question........straightforward answer