ewan mcgregor, bomber boys

[tegater 789]

Just watched a great programme on BBC1 about the Lancaster bomber etc in the 2nd world war.

 

Great insight into what the young crews had to go through, and the courage they showed.

 

Well done all of them.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

CLASS the lancaster bomber, the dignity of them old men , any one who said they were not terrfied were liers one said

[the_stig 6,614]

well worth a watch..

[Caprelous 217]

Just watched a great programme on BBC1 about the Lancaster bomber etc in the 2nd world war.

 

Great insight into what the young crews had to go through, and the courage they showed.

 

Well done all of them.

 

I watched it as well it was a good program, those chaps must have had some bottle to fly those bloody things, its no wonder the death rate of the tail gunners was high. 9 out of 10 didnt come back in one piece.

My father was stationed at Petworth during the war in the Fire service and he pulled out a pilot from a crashed spitfire that was shot down during the Battle of Britain the pilot later died through excessive burns, my father however was awarded a silver oak leaf and cluster from Winston Churchill and the King for his extreme bravery in his attempt at getting the pilot out alive while ammunition was exploding alround him.

 

my owd chap said it was nowt to do with bravery as he must have been a fool he just did it because it had to be done if he had time to consider the consequences he would not have done it. bit like those guys in the bombers it had to be done.

[Nik_B 3,790]

and the poor buggers never got a campaign medal. Harris was treated like a leper.

 

It's disgusting when you consider 50,000 bomber aircrew lost their lives.

 

The leftie wierdos spent all their time concentrating on Dresden and asking whether it was really necessary but the fact remains Germany was a very dangerous enemy right up to the end. The damage done it its industry and the general disruption done to those cities will have contributed massively to her down fall.

[Wullz 408]

my uncle flew the dresden, hamburg and cologne raids, he was killed in a raid bombing Chemnitz in 1945........ran away from home and lied about his age to get in.......was a tail gunner. He is buried in Prague cemetery with his crew........there is a book about his crew called "Nothing heard since take off" good read. As you cab imagine, my whole family are proud, but angry at the treatment of the crews.......old boy at the end was good - they started it and we finished it!!!

[Caprelous 217]

and the poor buggers never got a campaign medal. Harris was treated like a leper.

 

It's disgusting when you consider 50,000 bomber aircrew lost their lives.

 

The leftie wierdos spent all their time concentrating on Dresden and asking whether it was really necessary but the fact remains Germany was a very dangerous enemy right up to the end. The damage done it its industry and the general disruption done to those cities will have contributed massively to her down fall.

 

Disgusting how they treated Harris if he hadnt stuck to what he believed in many more of our lads would have been killed its his efforts that shortened the war by his blanket bombing , i know thousand upon thousands were killed but hell fire this country was fighting for its very existance, dont forget they had us beat and drove us into the sea at Dunkirk there was only a narrow strip of water some 18miles across that acted as a natural barrier, My owd chap said if Hitler had kept going and invaded then we only had pitch forks to defend ourselves at that time.

 

Bomber Harris should have a National Monument erected after him like Nelson did in Trafalger Sq for if it wasnt for him and those lads in Bomber Command I tell you we all would not be enjoying the freedom that we have today and thats a fact.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Caprelous

[Nik_B 3,790]

Yep I agree lucky for harris he was much loved by his crews and he used to turn up to reunions (if that's the right word).

 

What the dopey post war politicians failed to realise was that the RAF had tried precision bombing for many years and it generally failed and led to very high loses. The mass bombing campaign was for safety in numbers and to reduce the % of bombers lost while increasing the chance of hitting the targets. Virtually ever mission was to target industry and not civilians but as a bonus a city that burned well would by default have a greater effect on the industry by causing more collateral damage and displacing many of the workers. The Americans tried bombing by daylight and at lower levels and suffered catastrophic loses, it was only the introduction of long range fighter escorts like the P51 that allowed those missions to continue and still the took heavy loses. It's interesting to note that by 1944, even though we'd bombed their factories and industrial zones relentlessly, the Germans were producing more tanks and aircraft than ever before. Imagine what would have happened if we hadn't bombed their cities?

 

I think Dresden became a poster city for the pacifists after the war and they've invented some ridiculous claims about the city being off limits, inflated death tolls and that there was no benefit gained from the bombing of it, that it was pure spite from Harris! Dresden was a rail hub and also was very close to the front line which meant that huge volumes of weapons, equipment and military personnel passed through it daily to support the Army on the eastern front.

[scothunter 12,609]

Watched it aswell. Great tv. Better than most of the drivel on the box these days. Should make more programmes like this, then maybe some kids would not be so ignorant of our past. Oh and adults aswell. Saturation bombing will always be a touchy subject. Unfortunately it took many decades to realise that it is wrong and we needed to have more accuracy in bombing raids.

As for Dresden it served no military purpose whatsoever, you only need to look at how the top brass tried to distance themselves from that incident. The war was all but over, Berlin was the next great battle and that was left to the Russians. Dresden was just to demoralise and make sure there wasn't a part of Germany that wasn't untouched. It worked to a degree it made the German people all was lost. Not going to go as far S saying it was a war crime, although the charter does say the indiscriminate killing of civilians is just that. They bombed us we bombed them. Still though Dresden was pretty Ott IMO

[Nik_B 3,790]

US Air Force Historical Division published a report in the 1950s on the bombing of Dresden.

 

"Dresden was an important industrial center with over 110 factories and industrial enterprises that employed 50,000 workers. These factories made armaments (shells and ammunition), torpedo parts, aircraft parts, field radios and telephones, steering elements for U-boats, specialized turbines for the Navy, X-ray equipment and precision optical instruments. There was also a poison gas factory and an anti-aircraft and field gun factory.

Dresden was also a key junction in the railroad system for Germany with rail lines radiating from it in all directions. In 1944 special tracks and platforms were installed to expedite supplies to and from the major armaments and war-related factories in the city to the front in the east. There were four freight (marshalling) yards and four main railway stations, all of which were legitimate military targets.

Dresden was an important transit point for military traffic to and from the eastern front, which was just 90 miles away in February 1945. A total of 28 military trains, carrying almost 20,000 men and officers went through just one Dresden train station each day. The destruction of these stations and rail lines in order to disrupt troop movements and reinforcements to the Russian front, which was less than two hours away, was a legitimate military aim.

Dresden was also an important river port and a center of freight traffic on the Elbe river, one of the major waterways of Europe"

 

It is a complete myth that it was a cultural city of no of military or industrial importance. It was no less a target than any other city.

[Nik_B 3,790]

Hard to read but here's the actual document

 

http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110208-030.pdf

[scothunter 12,609]

Not saying it didn't hold a military point at one time. However it was certainly not producing any kind of munitions of any sugnificance early 45. All but avert few of its anti aircraft guns had been moved to Berlin. It was a soft target and a city mostly made up of wood went up like a bonfire. Like I said it was war and civilians die, but I stand by my view it was more of demoralise tactic and also it was of the very few city's that hadn't been touched. If it was so big a deal why it wasn't it targeted before. Anyway interesting subject and was a good programme.

[Nik_B 3,790]

A good question, the reason they gave was that by February 1945 it had become a major communication and transport hub due to the proximity to the eastern front which had significantly shifted westward. So when the Germans were still busy fighting the Russians in the Ukraine, Poland or Romania etc it was considered less a significant target, but once the Russians were knocking at the door of Germany and looking to make their final assaults it suddenly became a military target of higher importance.

 

Like you say the demoralisation of the people and troops must have had a massive effect and I doubt that went missed by those that planned the raid.

 

p.s

 

Another thing I was thinking about was that the Americans in particular had just had the wind put up them by the German Ardennes Offensive and probably didn't think of the Germans as all but finished. They didn't know that Hitler was going to top himself so they could have imagined that the war was going to carry on for longer than it did.....just a thought

[littlefish 586]

Desperate situations call for desperate actions. Respect for all those heroes who played their part in giving us the freedom we have today. Also to all the people who worked round the clock in factories to make them. I visited the RAF Museum recently during the Battle of Britain commemorations and saw those planes they flew in......they looked like basic big tin boxes compared to the computerised war planes of today.

[the_stig 6,614]

and the poor buggers never got a campaign medal. Harris was treated like a leper.

 

It's disgusting when you consider 50,000 bomber aircrew lost their lives.

 

The leftie wierdos spent all their time concentrating on Dresden and asking whether it was really necessary but the fact remains Germany was a very dangerous enemy right up to the end. The damage done it its industry and the general disruption done to those cities will have contributed massively to her down fall.

 

Disgusting how they treated Harris if he hadnt stuck to what he believed in many more of our lads would have been killed its his efforts that shortened the war by his blanket bombing , i know thousand upon thousands were killed but hell fire this country was fighting for its very existance, dont forget they had us beat and drove us into the sea at Dunkirk there was only a narrow strip of water some 18miles across that acted as a natural barrier, My owd chap said if Hitler had kept going and invaded then we only had pitch forks to defend ourselves at that time.

 

Bomber Harris should have a National Monument erected after him like Nelson did in Trafalger Sq for if it wasnt for him and those lads in Bomber Command I tell you we all would not be enjoying the freedom that we have today and thats a fact.

thr is a statue of harris at a church on the strand nr trafalger square..