northern boy 0 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Here’s a question for the lads out there that seem to know a thing or two about breeding dogs fit for purpose. Are all the best guard dogs German? and why has no one taken more of an interest in our home grown breeds like the bull mastiff for guarding duties. As far as I am aware the bull mastiff was originally bred for grounds and game keeper protection. But as far as I can see only KC style breeders seem interested them. Are there any thunderock style breeders about attempting to breed more useful qualities back into the great British Bullmastiff? Why do all the KC BM's have huge drooping lips that obviously seem to cause constant drooling? This can’t be the consequence of a shorter bulldog like snout, as rotties and staffies have shorter muzzles without the pendulous lips. Pictures of this breed in years gone by don’t seem to be the slobbering BM's of today. Does the constant drooling and saggy mouth seen on some of the mastiff breeds serve any useful purpose? if not ,why do breeders not aim for a cleaner mouth and a more useful wife friendly dog that doesn’t soak the carpet? It seems such a shame to see the disappearance of a breed that if bred back to fitness could still play a role not to far from which it was originally bred in today’s society. After all isn’t a German shepherd just a Border Collie with big teeth, even the rottie was apparently originally a herding dog. Ps. no disrespect to collies, I grew up with them . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Here’s a question for the lads out there that seem to know a thing or two about breeding dogs fit for purpose. Are all the best guard dogs German? and why has no one taken more of an interest in our home grown breeds like the bull mastiff for guarding duties. As far as I am aware the bull mastiff was originally bred for grounds and game keeper protection. But as far as I can see only KC style breeders seem interested them. Are there any thunderock style breeders about attempting to breed more useful qualities back into the great British Bullmastiff? Why do all the KC BM's have huge drooping lips that obviously seem to cause constant drooling? This can’t be the consequence of a shorter bulldog like snout, as rotties and staffies have shorter muzzles without the pendulous lips. Pictures of this breed in years gone by don’t seem to be the slobbering BM's of today. Does the constant drooling and saggy mouth seen on some of the mastiff breeds serve any useful purpose? if not ,why do breeders not aim for a cleaner mouth and a more useful wife friendly dog that doesn’t soak the carpet? It seems such a shame to see the disappearance of a breed that if bred back to fitness could still play a role not to far from which it was originally bred in today’s society. After all isn’t a German shepherd just a Border Collie with big teeth, even the rottie was apparently originally a herding dog. Ps. no disrespect to collies, I grew up with them . Firstly you asked if the best guard dogs are German, mostly yes, the two best in my opinion being the GSD and Rottie, however Europe is the home of the guarding breeds including the malinois(Belgian Shepherd) and Dutch Shepherd, These are the four top guarding/protection breeds in the world, and funnily enough you said the rottie and GSD were herding dogs, a "collie with big teeth". Well they are all linked to herding but does that matter on iota? Does it fcuk, to my knowledge nobody breeds decent bullmastiffs either physically or mentally. And ys the bullmastiff was supposedly bred as a keepers dog, but the form and function now is far flung from that description. Personally i wouldn't want to waste the considerable time and effort trying to get a line of half decent bullmastiffs after several generations when i can guarentee a top class individual from the other breeds in a phone call................ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sorley Boys clan Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 the two best simo being german gsd or rotti what do you think would be the best out of all four with out being biased i think dsd who dont carry any of the faults of the gsd or the mal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 the two best simo being german gsd or rotti what do you think would be the best out of all four with out being biased i think dsd who dont carry any of the faults of the gsd or the mal Depends mate, i think all have great qualities, i think as a service dog all four are excellent, as sport dogs the GSD would top my list, in my experience they track better than the others, are easier to control than a mail or Dutch Shepherd, the rottie can suffer in the agility sections. Aa a family protection dog the mali would be bottom of my list, not for a lack of drive or ability but they require a special handler....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sorley Boys clan Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 the two best simo being german gsd or rotti what do you think would be the best out of all four with out being biased i think dsd who dont carry any of the faults of the gsd or the mal Depends mate, i think all have great qualities, i think as a service dog all four are excellent, as sport dogs the GSD would top my list, in my experience they track better than the others, are easier to control than a mail or Dutch Shepherd, the rottie can suffer in the agility sections. Aa a family protection dog the mali would be bottom of my list, not for a lack of drive or ability but they require a special handler....... i would have to agree with you there but in a crisis situation i think i would prefer a dsd at my side Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 the two best simo being german gsd or rotti what do you think would be the best out of all four with out being biased i think dsd who dont carry any of the faults of the gsd or the mal Depends mate, i think all have great qualities, i think as a service dog all four are excellent, as sport dogs the GSD would top my list, in my experience they track better than the others, are easier to control than a mail or Dutch Shepherd, the rottie can suffer in the agility sections. Aa a family protection dog the mali would be bottom of my list, not for a lack of drive or ability but they require a special handler....... i would have to agree with you there but in a crisis situation i think i would prefer a dsd at my side A good one from any of those breeds would be fine by me, its just finding the good ones............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sorley Boys clan Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 A rotti in my opinion is a wast of oxygen as much as i love gsd there weaknesses in there hips put me of them what you say about the mal is 100% i think the dsd is a far better working dog all round Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 A rotti in my opinion is a wast of oxygen as much as i love gsd there weaknesses in there hips put me of them what you say about the mal is 100% i think the dsd is a far better working dog all round Getting a good rottie is harder to find, BUT a good one is hugely powerfull and strong. Good GSD's have good hips, breed average is 16, mine averaged 4. Must admit, Dutch shepherd is a breed i havent worked with but have seen my mates working them in Holland and France.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
relic 30 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Here’s a question for the lads out there that seem to know a thing or two about breeding dogs fit for purpose. Are all the best guard dogs German? and why has no one taken more of an interest in our home grown breeds like the bull mastiff for guarding duties. As far as I am aware the bull mastiff was originally bred for grounds and game keeper protection. But as far as I can see only KC style breeders seem interested them. Are there any thunderock style breeders about attempting to breed more useful qualities back into the great British Bullmastiff? Why do all the KC BM's have huge drooping lips that obviously seem to cause constant drooling? This can’t be the consequence of a shorter bulldog like snout, as rotties and staffies have shorter muzzles without the pendulous lips. Pictures of this breed in years gone by don’t seem to be the slobbering BM's of today. Does the constant drooling and saggy mouth seen on some of the mastiff breeds serve any useful purpose? if not ,why do breeders not aim for a cleaner mouth and a more useful wife friendly dog that doesn’t soak the carpet? It seems such a shame to see the disappearance of a breed that if bred back to fitness could still play a role not to far from which it was originally bred in today’s society. After all isn’t a German shepherd just a Border Collie with big teeth, even the rottie was apparently originally a herding dog. Ps. no disrespect to collies, I grew up with them . i dont think that there have been any good bull mastiffs about for years and that for me is a great shame, i evern asked col hanncock who did the best bull mastiff breed books about full of info and history and he said that there ant none, as a type the britsh smaller holding dog as been around for many years long befor the KC reg it, the death nail for that and the rest of are guard dog breeds not just in the UK but around europe was after the 1st would war when every one was coming home and bring with them the GSD that they had seen over there, theres a few difernt europen holding breeds now that people are working with that are still in its working type and as some one els has said it would take years to breed back to [bANNED TEXT] it was, Anubis alunt looks more of a night watch dog then any bull mastiff dose that iv seen in or out of the ring, it can run jump hold protect its fit as a butchers dog and could do it all day long Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stabs 3 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 There was a chap in the south west who bred functional bull mastiffs (lower case intended) but they weren't Bull Mastiffs as the KC know. I think his intention was to do something with the breed and moniker....I remember supplying him with 19 century Bull Mastiff breeding and training literature many years ago. Not sure what he is up to now as last I heard his name he'd just gone on his "holidays" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GrCh 856 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think theres a breeder of "decent" bandogs in the UK if you search google you should find him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bird 9,872 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 i used to keep bullmastiffs in 80s, and the breed was in a bad way very unhealthy not long lived bad hips (hd) and back then people were turning to R.ridgebacks as a guard, as the bullmastiffs were to docile. I came out of the breed because of the above, i do think a well bred GSD or DSD or Rottie , would make better type guard dogs .The DSD from what ive read are smaller than the GSD but bigger+stronger than a Mal, maybe a good male GSD or Rottie i think i might go for prob the GSD . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Swampy 147 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 To get back to the thread. I think the answer is "no". I do think its a shame when breeds dissapear and from some of the posts on this thread its easy tio see why. Convenience. "when i can guarentee a top class individual from the other breeds in a phone call................ " was one comment Yeah thats what made this country great isn't it. My grandfather had a bull mastiff way before I was born and my mum showed me a picture of her as a toddler riding him. An amazing looking dog that in my opinion has been ruined by the KC. Possibly killed off! Its thanks to folk who do put the time and effort into keeping a breed alive (and fault free) that we have such good working stock now. As for the GSD. Duuring WWII the yanks trained them to attack japanese patrols in the jungle in Malaya and Burma. After a few weeks the dogs stopped coming back to the base. Why? Because the japs started training labs to attack the GSD and they were killing them off. GSD waste of time. Mentally unstable a fraught with problems. Rottweiler. Unstable. I guess we are going to lose a few more breeds in th future. Try looking finding an otter hound. can't pick up the phone for one of those! I hope that we will see a resurgence in the bull Mastiff soon. rgds Swampy bi ning Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GrCh 856 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) To get back to the thread. I think the answer is "no". I do think its a shame when breeds dissapear and from some of the posts on this thread its easy tio see why. Convenience. "when i can guarentee a top class individual from the other breeds in a phone call................ " was one comment Yeah thats what made this country great isn't it. My grandfather had a bull mastiff way before I was born and my mum showed me a picture of her as a toddler riding him. An amazing looking dog that in my opinion has been ruined by the KC. Possibly killed off! Its thanks to folk who do put the time and effort into keeping a breed alive (and fault free) that we have such good working stock now. As for the GSD. Duuring WWII the yanks trained them to attack japanese patrols in the jungle in Malaya and Burma. After a few weeks the dogs stopped coming back to the base. Why? Because the japs started training labs to attack the GSD and they were killing them off. GSD waste of time. Mentally unstable a fraught with problems. Rottweiler. Unstable. I guess we are going to lose a few more breeds in th future. Try looking finding an otter hound. can't pick up the phone for one of those! I hope that we will see a resurgence in the bull Mastiff soon. rgds Swampy bi ning I never knew that. Edited January 27, 2012 by GrCh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bird 9,872 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 To get back to the thread. I think the answer is "no". I do think its a shame when breeds dissapear and from some of the posts on this thread its easy tio see why. Convenience. "when i can guarentee a top class individual from the other breeds in a phone call................ " was one comment Yeah thats what made this country great isn't it. My grandfather had a bull mastiff way before I was born and my mum showed me a picture of her as a toddler riding him. An amazing looking dog that in my opinion has been ruined by the KC. Possibly killed off! Its thanks to folk who do put the time and effort into keeping a breed alive (and fault free) that we have such good working stock now. As for the GSD. Duuring WWII the yanks trained them to attack japanese patrols in the jungle in Malaya and Burma. After a few weeks the dogs stopped coming back to the base. Why? Because the japs started training labs to attack the GSD and they were killing them off. GSD waste of time. Mentally unstable a fraught with problems. Rottweiler. Unstable. I guess we are going to lose a few more breeds in th future. Try looking finding an otter hound. can't pick up the phone for one of those! I hope that we will see a resurgence in the bull Mastiff soon. rgds Swampy bi ning Mate could you tell me what lines(ped) the bullmastiffs are from, as i would like to see these dogs. If they are better than whats around now great, as liked the breed but got fed up with the quality that i saw. pm if you like ..! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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