Working dog phsycologist needed, Sussex area

[Tyla 3,179]

Some of you may remember a thread i posted a while back relating to my terrier attacking one of the lurchers, well its happened again and im at my wits end. Tried everything i know and all the sensible advice i got off here. If anyone knows of a dog phsycologist that deals with working dogs rather than just neurotic pets it would be much appreiciated.

 

Thanks

[slips 114]

thats terriers for ya they hold a grug not lakeland blooded by any chance.its nice your tryin to do somethink rather then just gettin rid but i think the only way will be work em seprart but is the dog a diggin dog or just for bushin

[Tyla 3,179]

He is a rescue we took in, border lakie looking thing but big 16tts. He is an above ground only dog. I like him and dont like the idea of giving up on him but he cant keep this up. Not so bad now as they're kennelled seperate but come Summer we do alot of travelling about, camping etc and the dogs have to come. It'll be impossible if they cant be trusted together

[Casso 1,261]

He is a rescue we took in, border lakie looking thing but big 16tts. He is an above ground only dog. I like him and dont like the idea of giving up on him but he cant keep this up. Not so bad now as they're kennelled seperate but come Summer we do alot of travelling about, camping etc and the dogs have to come. It'll be impossible if they cant be trusted together

more than likely your terrier has been attacked or savaged by another dog some time in its early life before you got him, that attack leaves an imprint, a charge as such in the dogs makeup which get triggered in stressful situations for him, then his attack on the lurcher is a release, a vent of pent up energy its not personal its not dominance the two dogs probably get on fine otherwise, things seem ok for a while after that, until the build up and release again in some other situation which trigger the feeling in the terrier,

 

its a bit like us humans in the father and son relationship, if the father was slapped as a kid it leaves a charge in his psyche and when he finds himself in a situation similar to the one he experienced with his own father the rage inside surfaces even though he was the one on the receiving end before he is the aggressor now, so the charge get passed to his son,

 

And the same release we find when we vent, clearing the air in other words, in whatever form it takes ,a good row, an argument,a shouting match between couples brings the calm after the storm, going down the gym gives some release, we all have different ways of dealing with it, getting that pent up energy out giving us a feeling of calm inside is exactly the same for the mutt,

a dog distresses orally, just as in the form of the attack on the lurcher, biting, tearing, pulling and i would also think with a lot of incoherent screaming from the terrier, its all energy coming out, your lurcher is attraction all your terriers energy, its as simple as that,,

Getting your dog hooked on tug play has the same effect, think of the actions, i know its been done on here a hundred times but the benefits of tug play are huge, not only in how the dogs sees us but for that release of energy,

i see energy as the biggest element in a canines life, resolve its energy issues and you become a huge attraction to the dog, let the dog find its own way of resolving energy and you end up with a problem dog,

the attack on the lurcher is never personal, folk will read all sorts of different twists into it, the dominance theory is a huge one, its an energy issue and should be approached as such,

teaching the dog to bark is another good way of letting it express energy and calm itself down in stressful situations, its hard to read a situation from a few lines posted on here but when we dont read human thoughts into it we get a clearer picture,

best of luck with it whatever way you approach it bud, there's nothing worse than a situation like that when you never know it will kick off,,

 

 

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[skycat 6,174]

Hi Casso: good to see you back on here.

 

I would agree with a lot of what you say, but the problem with a lot of this type of terrier is that they are so bred to kill things: they have an inbred need to really get their teeth into something, and the more challenging the better in most cases. I know that you'll say this is drive, and in the case of Tyla's dog, it is an unfulfilled drive: the dog isn't getting the sort of work it really needs. I've got, and have had, terriers exactly the same as this, and some lurchers too. Their drive is massive, and even if they have never been attacked or had issues with other dogs, their need to kill is overpowering.

 

I have lurchers which can't be trusted to run and 'play nicely' with other dogs because all they want to do is 'take out' the other dog which doesn't want to play hard ball in the same way. At the moment I've got two lurchers who can only play with each other: same temperament, same drive: they play really rough, lots of growling, snapping, barging, their necks are wet with the saliva of the other dog after one of these games, but because they are the same, they can take it, with no hard feelings.

 

I know that this is completely different to Tyla's terrier attacking the lurcher, and I don't honestly think that playing tug would help his situation as there is, in my opinion, now an element of the personal in it: for some reason this particular lurcher incites the terrier to attack it. If the terrier was less specific in his attacks, and went for other dogs as well, then I'd agree with you Casso, but as he doesn't, IMO there is only one solution to the problem: or two, to be precise. Either get rid of the terrier, or keep them completely separate at all times: not an easy way to live, though I've done it on many occasions in the past when I had more working terriers that couldn't be trusted with lurchers: little man syndrome LOL

 

Tyla: you can see all the dog behaviourists you want, and they may well offer you various ideas to try and see if the situation can be controlled: if you want to see one of the best then why not phone Jim Greenwood: I know he's up north, but he is brilliant and could offer you a lot of advice over the phone. He does travel about a lot as well and may well be able to tie you in on one of his trips down south.

 

I still maintain that any solution that a behaviourist/dog psychologist has to offer, (on the proviso that I am right about this terrier) would not be a permanent solution, and you would still have to be on your guard for ever more if the two dogs were loose together. I would like to be wrong on this one, I really would, but my gut instinct remains unchanged. It is very hard to change the basic nature of a dog, or a human, and in the same way that I could never trust one of my lurcher bitches, due to her innate nature, I honestly don't think that you'll be able to change the way your terrier views this lurcher of yours which he attacks.

[deadlyshot 25]

i have a similar problem with my terrier patt x lakey it is aggressive with my sisters jackxparsons and it will not leave her alone and really determined to fight with her but when they go out together good as gold i dont know why this happens but i put it down to my sisters dog will growl at mine if it gets to close so then mine takes this growling and converts it into a fight

[Casso 1,261]

i can understand what your saying penny, very good input, i feel the reason he vents on the lurcher is because the 2 are similar in temperament,and the terrier is drawn to the energy in the lurcher, the one flaw i would see in attempting to redirecting the terrier is that i think i remember now he neutered, which means he no longer has access to certain elements in a complete dogs makeup,

those two lurchers you talk about Penny who can give and take with each other, i would hazard a guess they are both entire males or females but neither of the two were neutered , therefore able to play both roles in play fighting without taking offence,some neutered male dogs seem unable to fully integrate in such activity

it may seem personal, i still think its energy stuck not moving in the terrier, that is building up and exploding in moments of stress,

it explodes, settles down for a while, builds up again, explodes again,

i believe the ability to bark on command in the vicinity of the lurcher would help also, instead of collapsing into an attack as is what happens now, a bark is pure energy,which would go some way to easing the situation, a trained protection dog can be trained to bark without it breaking down into the bite, it is still projecting energy into quarry, dog, man whatever the circumstances for whatever dog,

take care,,

Edited January 3, 2012 by Casso

[Tyla 3,179]

Thanks for the input people. Ive spoken to lots of people about this and there seem to be three options, PTS, rehome or attempt to manage the problem. Everyone has said that this behaviour will never trained out of him now its started. After alot of soul searching ive come to this conclusion. Rehoming, unless the perfect person materialises, is likely to be a disaster and i have no wish to see him punted about from pillar to post especially as he came to me as a rescue. Neither my wife or I want to PTS unless absolutely necessary so that leaves management. Thus far the problem only arises in the house, car or when loose together in the garden. Its never happened while working or on excersise and they are not kennelled together. Its my hope that, with the use of a terrier box in the vehicle and simply not bringing them into the house together anymore, it can be, if not solved then, managed.

 

Im sure plenty of people will think im either soft or daft and they'd probably be right but im going to give it a try. This dog has had more chances than most, certainly more than he deserves, but I like him for all his faults and he does the job i need him to do. If I can manage him in such a way that it doesnt adversely affect Parker then Im willing to make the effort.

[shotgun tim 27]

well done tyla for tryimg the best with this dog my hat goes off to you!!!!