Now or never

[gnasher16 30,437]

Sometimes i think you've been punched in the head to many times Gnasher?

If your competing against someone then its classed as a sport. Maybe the have higher fitness levels, mental levels or whatever but there still a sport.

 

Really.........i sometimes think mummy didnt give you enough attention as a youngster........but im not rude about it am i

 

I say again this " if you compete against somebody its a sport " theory is complete nonsense......i used to have throw the ball in the bucket competitions with my son,thats not a sport either......

[gnasher16 30,437]

[but wouldnt that same theory apply to running gnash??

 

Theoretically Tomo yes....but as we know it doesnt work out like that.......genetically west african blacks tend to dominate in sprinting....east african blacks tend to dominate in long distance running..................likewise with something like weightlifting being dominated by whites.......so to an extent sport is dictated by genetics......but what im getting at with cycling,there is no real genetic reason or skills/talent reason why virtually anyone with the right mindset could not reach the top........ronnie o sullivan trains very little yet continues to be one of the best snooker players the game has ever seen as he has such an abundance of natural talent he was born with and no matter how hard me or you worked at it we could never reach that level......i am still yet to hear anyone give something a cyclist is born with ( a natural talent ) that cannot be gained through dedication and hard work.

Bodybuilding....not a true sport for me no.....olympic lifting id put on the same level as cycling.....a sport of sorts yes but like cycling a minority sport not on the same level as others.

Edited December 24, 2011 by gnasher16

[Lab 10,979]

Sometimes i think you've been punched in the head to many times Gnasher?

If your competing against someone then its classed as a sport. Maybe the have higher fitness levels, mental levels or whatever but there still a sport.

 

Really.........i sometimes think mummy didnt give you enough attention as a youngster........but im not rude about it am i

 

I say again this " if you compete against somebody its a sport " theory is complete nonsense......i used to have throw the ball in the bucket competitions with my son,thats not a sport either......

maybe your right on both counts... Maybe one day someone will get you to change your mind. Doubt it but I'll keep trying...;-)

[lanesra 3,994]

[but wouldnt that same theory apply to running gnash??

 

Theoretically Tomo yes....but as we know it doesnt work out like that.......genetically west african blacks tend to dominate in sprinting....east african blacks tend to dominate in long distance running..................likewise with something like weightlifting being dominated by whites.......so to an extent sport is dictated by genetics......but what im getting at with cycling,there is no real genetic reason or skills/talent reason why virtually anyone with the right mindset could not reach the top........ronnie o sullivan trains very little yet continues to be one of the best snooker players the game has ever seen as he has such an abundance of natural talent he was born with and no matter how hard me or you worked at it we could never reach that level......i am still yet to hear anyone give something a cyclist is born with ( a natural talent ) that cannot be gained through dedication and hard work.

Bodybuilding....not a true sport for me no.....olympic lifting id put on the same level as cycling.....a sport of sorts yes but like cycling a minority sport not on the same level as others.

Right Gnash i will give it a go , Roy Keane obviously was a talented footballer but not as talented as most in his team Cantona Beckham Ronaldo ect BUT when it needed someone to DRIVE THE TEAM WHEN THE CHIPS WHERE DOWN Juventus game springs to mind , it wasnt the afore mentioned players who took hold off the game it was Keane .... so from within what ever that is rose above talent to drag the team over the line when things where going wrong , so you could say in sport DRIVE / DETERMINATION can sometimes outshine natural born talent (though obviously not always) , Ferguson when selecting his team in the Keane era would off put Keane 1st on the team sheet and surely not for a talented reason , i really think a DESIRE to Win is a talent , though not 1 you can see as clearly as someone who can throw a dart or juggle a ball , Ronnie O'sullivan is the most naturally gifted snooker player off my time BUT Steve Davis& Stephen Hendry are THE BEST PLAYERS IVE SEEN without the talent off O'sullivan but why did they win more and where more consistent though less talented ? so maybe the TALENT Cavendish has is similiar to what made Roy Keane Tick ? And something Davis and Hendry had to take them further than there talent warrented though im not sayin these 2 werent talented but not as talented as O'sullivan or Jimmy White who coincidently NEVER won a world title with the talent he was born with ..... sorry its like an essay Edited December 24, 2011 by lanesra

[The Duncan 802]

If there is no skill in competitive cycling, does that also mean there is no skill in motorbike racing?

you've clearly never ridden a motorcycle to come out with that!!!! you can't possibly compare riding a pushbike to racing a motorbike, the ONLY similarity is the number of wheels.

cheeky f*cker! Done 100000miles on motorbikes! I was just posing the question.

[gnasher16 30,437]

Right Gnash i will give it a go , Roy Keane obviously was a talented footballer but not as talented as most in his team Cantona Beckham Ronaldo ect BUT when it needed someone to DRIVE THE TEAM WHEN THE CHIPS WHERE DOWN Juventus game springs to mind , it wasnt the afore mentioned players who took hold off the game it was Keane .... so from within what ever that is rose above talent to drag the team over the line when things where going wrong , so you could say in sport DRIVE / DETERMINATION can sometimes outshine natural born talent (though obviously not always) , Ferguson when selecting his team in the Keane era would off put Keane 1st on the team sheet and surely not for a talented reason , i really think a DESIRE to Win is a talent , though not 1 you can see as clearly as someone who can throw a dart or juggle a ball , Ronnie O'sullivan is the most naturally gifted snooker player off my time BUT Steve Davis& Stephen Hendry are THE BEST PLAYERS IVE SEEN without the talent off O'sullivan but why did they win more and where more consistent though less talented ? so maybe the TALENT Cavendish has is similiar to what made Roy Keane Tick ? And something Davis and Hendry had to take them further than there talent warrented though im not sayin these 2 werent talented but not as talented as O'sullivan or Jimmy White who coincidently NEVER won a world title with the talent he was born with ..... sorry its like an essay

 

The thing is mate,your talking about traits and qualities within athletes who have already reached the top.......Roy Keane didnt reach the the very top of his sport by lacking in any of the qualities we,ve mentioned........this is my point about how a sport like football is far " more of a sport " ( for want of a better saying).......than cycling......Roy Keane had bundles of skill/talent..............he also had bundles of drive,commitment and energy................the lad Cavendish had every bit the drive,commitment and energy Roy Keane had......but what skills does he have in a sport that doesnt require any ???

No world class athlete can reach the pinnacle of their sport without having everything that sport needs which in football is adequate skill/talent/perseverance/fitness level/dedication.....................for cycling its all those same things minus skill/talent....plus a cyclist is reliant on a third party ( the bike and whatever technological advancements can be gained ).......so i fail to see how cycling can be a sport on the same level as football when it only require half the qualities to reach the top.......i say again for me darts/snooker requires more qualities than cycling.....darts/snooker players are born not made,cyclists for the most part are made.

Edited December 27, 2011 by gnasher16

[lanesra 3,994]

Right Gnash i will give it a go , Roy Keane obviously was a talented footballer but not as talented as most in his team Cantona Beckham Ronaldo ect BUT when it needed someone to DRIVE THE TEAM WHEN THE CHIPS WHERE DOWN Juventus game springs to mind , it wasnt the afore mentioned players who took hold off the game it was Keane .... so from within what ever that is rose above talent to drag the team over the line when things where going wrong , so you could say in sport DRIVE / DETERMINATION can sometimes outshine natural born talent (though obviously not always) , Ferguson when selecting his team in the Keane era would off put Keane 1st on the team sheet and surely not for a talented reason , i really think a DESIRE to Win is a talent , though not 1 you can see as clearly as someone who can throw a dart or juggle a ball , Ronnie O'sullivan is the most naturally gifted snooker player off my time BUT Steve Davis& Stephen Hendry are THE BEST PLAYERS IVE SEEN without the talent off O'sullivan but why did they win more and where more consistent though less talented ? so maybe the TALENT Cavendish has is similiar to what made Roy Keane Tick ? And something Davis and Hendry had to take them further than there talent warrented though im not sayin these 2 werent talented but not as talented as O'sullivan or Jimmy White who coincidently NEVER won a world title with the talent he was born with ..... sorry its like an essay

 

The thing is mate,your talking about traits and qualities within athletes who have already reached the top.......Roy Keane didnt reach the the very top of his sport by lacking in any of the qualities we,ve mentioned........this is my point about how a sport like football is far " more of a sport " ( for want of a better saying).......than cycling......Roy Keane had bundles of skill/talent..............he also had bundles of drive,commitment and energy................the lad Cavendish had every bit the drive,commitment and energy Roy Keane had......but what skills does he have in a sport that doesnt require any ???

No world class athlete can reach the pinnacle of their sport without having everything that sport needs which in football is adequate skill/talent/perseverance/fitness level/dedication.....................for cycling its all those same things minus skill/talent....plus a cyclist is reliant on a third party ( the bike and whatever technological advancements can be gained ).......so i fail to see how cycling can be a sport on the same level as football when it only require half the qualities to reach the top.......i say again for me darts/snooker requires more qualities than cycling.....darts/snooker players are born not made,cyclists for the most part are made.

Yes i see what your saying and i agree , though i believe that drive / determination we all have but there is something else there that only a few have and are born with though you cant see it as it comes from wihtin and that to me is a natural talent ........ have i lost you yet lol , seriously though i do believe there is something that differs the good from the great in sport and its more than the ability you can see and not just the run off the mill dedication drive ect we all have , as ive said in previous post look how many dedicated/fit/driven men apply to join Special Forces but only a few achieve there goal WHY ... i dont think they could answer that cause they dont know what they have as its an inner talent that to them is as natural as O'sullivan pickin up a Que !

[gnasher16 30,437]

Yes i see what your saying and i agree , though i believe that drive / determination we all have but there is something else there that only a few have and are born with though you cant see it as it comes from wihtin and that to me is a natural talent ........ have i lost you yet lol , seriously though i do believe there is something that differs the good from the great in sport and its more than the ability you can see and not just the run off the mill dedication drive ect we all have , as ive said in previous post look how many dedicated/fit/driven men apply to join Special Forces but only a few achieve there goal WHY ... i dont think they could answer that cause they dont know what they have as its an inner talent that to them is as natural as O'sullivan pickin up a Que !

 

Yep i get what your saying mate and your right,especially the example about Special Forces etc that was a good one .......but i personally dont class dedication/drive as a skill......a skill is something that cant be taught you just have a natural talent for something...you may go your whole life without ever even knowing you have it,but its there.......dedication/drive if its there will usually surface in some other form it dont have to be sport some folk are just born naturally more driven than others.......drive with no skill is useless if your in a sport that requires skill........drive with no skill is great in a sport that doesnt require skill ( like cycling )....hence for me cycling is not as complete a sport as football,rugby,boxing or many others.

Anyway never mind all this i can still see some turkey ....................hope you had a good xmas mate.

Edited December 27, 2011 by gnasher16

[lanesra 3,994]

Yes i see what your saying and i agree , though i believe that drive / determination we all have but there is something else there that only a few have and are born with though you cant see it as it comes from wihtin and that to me is a natural talent ........ have i lost you yet lol , seriously though i do believe there is something that differs the good from the great in sport and its more than the ability you can see and not just the run off the mill dedication drive ect we all have , as ive said in previous post look how many dedicated/fit/driven men apply to join Special Forces but only a few achieve there goal WHY ... i dont think they could answer that cause they dont know what they have as its an inner talent that to them is as natural as O'sullivan pickin up a Que !

 

Yep i get what your saying mate and your right,especially the example about Special Forces etc that was a good one .......but i personally dont class dedication/drive as a skill......a skill is something that cant be taught you just have a natural talent for something...you may go your whole life without ever even knowing you have it,but its there.......dedication/drive if its there will usually surface in some other form it dont have to be sport some folk are just born naturally more driven than others.......drive with no skill is useless if your in a sport that requires skill........drive with no skill is great in a sport that doesnt require skill ( like cycling )....hence for me cycling is not as complete a sport as football,rugby,boxing or many others.

Anyway never mind all this i can still see some turkey ....................hope you had a good xmas mate.

Quiet xmas Gnash , yesterday was the 6th anniversary ive been off the drink though i have the odd 1 when on holiday/away , just been out with the dogs over xmas , do i do anything else i hear the mrs sayin lol, had a good ferreting trip yesterday , not ideal conditions blowing a gale , the whippet had some good spins and we ended up with 15 which for the amount off rabbits about isnt much but numbers game dont bother us a good crack and dogs out workin is the important thing, hope you had/have a good festive mate