Now or never

[kenny14 656]

I can't agree with you on that point gnasher. That theory would mean that anyone could become a champion cyclist, and I'm sure there are lots of people who put in as much effort, and have the will to succeed, but they simply lack that other vital ingredient.

I'm sure that every one of us who've regularly played sport can remember lots of people who didn't put in as much effort as some others, but were far better players. And many who trained their bollocks off, and listened to everything the coaches told them, but they simply weren't ever going to make it.

 

 

Obviously its a bit of a wild statement.......what i mean apart from a great work ethic and dedication theres nothing you need to be born with( natural talent ) to make a great cyclist.......yes i feel pretty much anyone with the correct mindset and physical capability could reach the top of that sport....but the reality is that win at all costs mentality is very rare.

You say about putting in as much effort but lacking that vital ingredient......but what is that ingredient ? its not skill/talent.........so all it can really be is either a physical or mental attribute........i mean how much is there to riding a bike.......

I hope that didnt sound too disrespectful

 

Not disrespectful at all, I think it's been a good, interesting debate, that's not had any slagging off . And this could be one of those subjects that don't really have a definitive rule that covers every 'sport'.

I know where you're coming from, regarding cycling, and I think it's that physical capability, that's the ingredient that can't be learned. And though not a skill, it's still something that I believe you're either born with or not, and can only be improved upon to a certain extent.

[johnny boy68 11,726]

gnash how can you call horse racing a "lesser sport" when your banging on about skill levels, obviously all the national hunt jockeys just jump on and hold on.

[lanesra 3,994]

I think maybe cycling doesnt have a skill that you can see , i.e. control of a ball , dart ect but i definetly think you have to have a talent , maybe it comes from within , so i could off taken up cycling and competed against Cavendish , put the work in ect and really give my all but hidden deep inside when push comes to shove he would always come out on top , when Cavendish was 1st called up to train with the british squad as a 15/16 yr old there was another lad from here who went with him and it wasnt a secret he was BETTER than Cavendish but he didnt see it through so maybe thats where the talent lyes ? there is another kid coming through the ranks from here , not a sprinter but similiar to Wiggins , where as Cavandish will never win the Tour De France this kid has the makings as his style/ridin is about winning tours so you heard it 1st here Peter Kennaugh his name is good luck to the lad ........ maybe we produce top cyclists because we cycle everywhere , cant waite till we introduce cars here .

[gnasher16 30,404]

gnash how can you call horse racing a "lesser sport" when your banging on about skill levels, obviously all the national hunt jockeys just jump on and hold on.

 

Because without a peak conditioned million pound horse......you dont have a sport.............likewise motor racing,without a state of the art million pound car you dont have a sport......

Whereas anyone with a bat and a ball......a football.....2 boxing gloves.....a rugby ball etc etc you still have a sport in its purest form.

 

Its like this business with goal line technology in footie,i dont want it......i agree with uefa in that sport should be the same at every level or you just dilute the sport itself....

Im not saying im right it just suits my way of thinking

[TOMO 26,656]

goal line technology,,,, theres a subject,, ,,,,,, me im all for it........i remember chesterfield getting dumbed by midlesborough i think back in the 90's,,, cant remember now if it was fa cup,,,, or playoffs for the premiership,,,

 

it works well in rugby,, and of course they dont have it, at lower levels in the sport

[TOMO 26,656]

the equstrian ide agree with,, do you diferentuate between beech vollyball and normal vollyball ?? shurly vollyball has skill and fitness.

 

im not a fan of sailing,,, but dont they all have the same boat,,, ok the boat does the work ,, but im led to belive its very tireing and good fitness is required

 

Tomo would you accept barefoot beech football as an olympic sport ?........neither would i so for that reason i dont accept beech volleyball but yes id accept normal volleyball as a sport........sailing surely is reliant on the elements/weather as much as the boat itself............im sure its great fun and challenging.....but not a sport for me.

 

gnash i dont understand the point your making in first sentance,, you ask me if i accept it as a sport because its barefoot??? im slightly confused

 

is it becuse normal vollyball they have shoes,,,

[gnasher16 30,404]

gnash i dont understand the point your making in first sentance,, you ask me if i accept it as a sport because its barefoot??? im slightly confused

 

is it becuse normal vollyball they have shoes,,,

 

Tomo football,rugby,cricket etc etc is played on grass because it gives the truest run of a ball/can be played at the highest level/just plain sensible...............to play any of these sports on a beech for any reason other than having a laugh is pointless in my opinion......same go,s for volleyball......the only difference sand makes is a bit of a hindrance under foot i just cant see the point of it as a competetive sport if its exactly the same sport thats played on a hard court.

Plenty of younsters in certain countries grow up playing footie on beeches,they dont make an olympic sport of it though.

[TOMO 26,656]

oh right i get you,,, i can see your point it does seem slightly odd to have 2 of the same sports,, never thought about realy,, but thinking about it i agree, and i was hoping not to , serriuosly though they could proberbly just have 2 man vollyball on a court ...cheers

[greg64 2,849]

[now you're just being silly! just because you see certain types of sport as more of a challenge for the sportsman as they involved both skill and fitness is doesn't mean that a sport that only involves one of those factors isn't a sport.

 

Well yes it was said somewhat tongue in cheek

I look at the qualities a sportsman needs to be succesful......of which theres loads.....if a sport only needs 1 or 2 of them i fail to see how they can be classed as pure as a sport that needs them all.................basically cycling is something virtually any human being could become the best at with enough work put in......that theory doesnt apply to sports which require natural flair or ability.........darts requires no physical fitness but you couldnt suddenly decide one day your going to be the best at it without a huge amount of talent/skill you were more than likely born with................for that reason id class it more of a sport than cycling ........but i havent really thought it through so i might be wrong

so gnasher do you think you could win the tour de france if you put the work in,not in a million years,what a retarded statement

[gnasher16 30,404]

so gnasher do you think you could win the tour de france if you put the work in,not in a million years,what a retarded statement

 

At my age of course not........as a younger man give me a reason why not ?..........what is it that a cyclist has that the rest of the athletic population doesnt have ?

[Malt 379]

so gnasher do you think you could win the tour de france if you put the work in,not in a million years,what a retarded statement

 

At my age of course not........as a younger man give me a reason why not ?..........what is it that a cyclist has that the rest of the athletic population doesnt have ?

 

Gnash, you could apply the nature/nurture argument to any sport, take footballers for example. Plenty of top flight players perform at the highest level despite not being the most technically gifted footballers but they make up for it with hard work/high work rate & plenty of practice. I've also heard you talking about boxers who also box at the highest level with very little natural talent but with the work ethic to make the most of what they've got.

 

Not saying you're wrong BTW, I haven't got a clue as to when a plain old game becomes a sport!

[gnasher16 30,404]

Gnash, you could apply the nature/nurture argument to any sport, take footballers for example. Plenty of top flight players perform at the highest level despite not being the most technically gifted footballers but they make up for it with hard work/high work rate & plenty of practice. I've also heard you talking about boxers who also box at the highest level with very little natural talent but with the work ethic to make the most of what they've got.

 

 

Exactly !!......so if thats what can be achieved with little natural skill/talent in sport that requires skill/talent......think how far that same work rate and practise could take somebody in a sport that doesnt require any ..................last i looked riding a bike doesnt require any real skills as such......i accept theres a lot more to it than just riding a bike the way a kid rides round the park.......but its still riding a bike,just quickly and for a long time....................i fail to see the natural born talent thats required to be a top cyclist that doesnt come under the banner of hard work/fitness/endurance.....that anybody can aquire with the right mental attitude.

[Lab 10,979]

Sometimes i think you've been punched in the head to many times Gnasher? Theres thousands and thousands of people who dedicate there lives to cycling, train everyday and some probably train alot harder than Cavendish and they cant beat him.I dont think its down to see who can pedal a bike the fastest is it? Its down to timing and knowing your body, when to push it and when to hold back. Do you think Chris Hoy could beat Cavendish......pretty sure heres fit and can ride a bike...... I think its a bit of disrespect to say that aint a sport.

If your competing against someone then its classed as a sport. Maybe the have higher fitness levels, mental levels or whatever but there still a sport.

[TOMO 26,656]

i kind of get what gnash is saying,,, but i dont agree that there not sports or even lesser sports,,,

 

and whilst i agree with him that darts,, and even more so snooker, are a very skilled games.... i dont think either are proper sports. but we all have difrent oppinions.

 

gnash what do you think of bodybuilding,, i dont think can be classed as sport. then theres olyimpic weightlifting ,,, and powerlifting wich does not have olyimpic staytus???

 

intresting debate this..

[TOMO 26,656]

Gnash, you could apply the nature/nurture argument to any sport, take footballers for example. Plenty of top flight players perform at the highest level despite not being the most technically gifted footballers but they make up for it with hard work/high work rate & plenty of practice. I've also heard you talking about boxers who also box at the highest level with very little natural talent but with the work ethic to make the most of what they've got.

 

 

Exactly !!......so if thats what can be achieved with little natural skill/talent in sport that requires skill/talent......think how far that same work rate and practise could take somebody in a sport that doesnt require any ..................last i looked riding a bike doesnt require any real skills as such......i accept theres a lot more to it than just riding a bike the way a kid rides round the park.......but its still riding a bike,just quickly and for a long time....................i fail to see the natural born talent thats required to be a top cyclist that doesnt come under the banner of hard work/fitness/endurance.....that anybody can aquire with the right mental attitude.

 

but wouldnt that same theory apply to running gnash??