carl froch

[gnasher16 30,025]

used to call in to wardor st for the fight posters think i told you that though

 

That office with all the wooden cupboards like something off Open All Hours was where you would get called in and given a name,venue and date to train towards.......you didnt dare question it.......compare that to todays times where fighters tell there managers who there fighting,where and when.....Duff would of eaten the likes of Calzaghe or David Haye alive......." you dont f****n dictate to me ive been in this game 475 years "....i can still hear him now ....good little fighter in his day gte i dont know if you knew.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

yeah gnasher read his autobioraphy great little book tough cookie met him on several occasions

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

.... Frank Warren had purse bids on a fight with Hopkins 5 years before they actually fought but Calzaghe himself said he wasnt going to America as he was champion....so why when Hopkins reached 43 did Calzaghe suddenly do a 360 turnaround and go to America to fight him......why did Calzaghe not take the fight with Roy Jones in 03 or 04 whatever it was saying the challenger should do the travelling,but then when a fight with Kelly Pavlik was being discussed he said no as he had always wanted to fight the legend Roy Jones so would go to America to do so ( it just so happened Jones was 39 and washed up by then )

...

 

I remember all that bickering between Hopkins and Calzaghe quite clearly but not as you have stated there mate.

 

I remember Warren putting a £million on the table for Hopkins to come over here and challenge Calzaghe for his world title. Hopkins agreed on everything before signing the contract, when it come to signing on the dotted line Hopkins demanded twice the money. Warren wanted to know what had changed? Hopkins didn't give any explanation and backed out of the fight. Instead Hopkins defended his title(s) against the formidable Morrade Hakkar for a fraction of the price that Warren put on the table to fight against Calzaghe.

 

Hopkins wasn't a big ticket seller at that time, and it made more sense for the fight to happen over here at that time. Unfortunately Hopkins was the one that didn't want it and the fight couldn't happen because of that reason.

 

It was only when Hopkins made a bigger name for himself with his fights against DeLaHoya, The two controversial fights against Taylor, Wright and Tarver that Hopkins became a favourite with Yankee public. At the time the fight was made it made more sense for Calzaghe to fight over there than here, which he did, and he won fair and square. It was no fault of Joe's why the fight didn't happen earlier at all IMO.

 

Besides that, I don't care how old Hopkins was at the time he fought Calzaghe, Hopkins has had a number of excellent performances since losing to Calzaghe to suggest he is just some washed up old man. I dare anyone to tell me the man that dismantled Pavlik and Tarver and IMO beat Pascal out of sight twice is a has been no good old loser. Hopkins would of been an excellent scalp for anyone at the time Calzaghe beat him.

 

Jones Jnr I agree was washed up, But after a long career I know that a fight with Jones Jnr was just something Joe wanted for himself, by that time Joe didn't have anything else to prove against a blown up Middleweight and to be fair after 40 odd unbeaten fights I think he deserved that fight after wanting it for so many years.

 

IMO Calzaghe has had quite a few questionable defences and fights over his long career, but the fact of the matter is, just who could he of fought to make that record look any better? Jones Jnr was in another weight class with aspirations to fight at Heavyweight (which he did by beating Ruiz for the WBA strap). Hopkins was unreasonable and was content to fight men he knew he had the measure of at Middleweight. A Sven Ottke fight was out of the question, a Michalczewski bout would of been great but did it really make any sense to take the step up in weight for that fight in Germany?

 

Who else was there around back then, that he could of realistically of fought that would of made it all better?

 

For me, I'd say all of the following fights at the time they happened where worthy scalps, and decent wins for anyone, Reid, Starie, Sheika, Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchell all respectful wins. There's 5 former title holders there out of those 6 names, not exactly a legendary list I agree but decent enough.

 

Lacy was a brilliant win! We can say that Lacy hasn't accomplished anything after the loss to Calzaghe if all we want to do is pour cold water on Calzaghe's career, but is it really a surprise that after the prolonged leathering Calzaghe subjected him too for 12 rounds that he has never been the same since? IMO Calzaghe clearly taken quite a lot more from Lacy than just an unbeaten record that night. He certainly isn't the same fighter that smashed Reid to pieces.

 

Kessler was and still is an excellent fighter and a great win for Calzaghe.

 

Hopkins (regardless of his age) was and to date still is a formidable fighter, IMO a defining fight for Calzaghe.

 

And the man that threw Calzaghe onto the world scene Chris Eubank! I know he wasn't at the pinnacle of his career, but just because he lost two very close decisions to Collins I don't think that means that he was washed up. I think Chris proved in his battles Calzaghe and Thompson (Which I think he won the first fight) that he could still compete at the highest level.

 

Eubank, Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins all defining fights for Calzaghe IMO, and add to that the decent wins I mentioned earlier and that makes for a pretty exceptional career surely?

[Malt 379]

Cleverly/Froch fight a possibility?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/16257515.stm

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

Cleverly/Froch fight a possibility?

 

http://news.bbc.co.u...ng/16257515.stm

 

That'd be nice, and there is other very interesting bouts at Light Heavy that Froch could indulge in that would be great for us boxing fans, but in saying that Super Middle has got Bute, a rematch with Kessler and maybe even Ward if it could be made. He's got plenty of options Froch has, but what ever he chooses to do, I'll be cheering him on .

 

Best of luck to him .

[the_stig 6,614]

the froch camp think he could get a couple of decent fights at light heavy - he`s said he`d like kessler and a rematch with ward -- and he`d like a couple of home soil fights .a few more fights in him yet ..

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

the froch camp think he could get a couple of decent fights at light heavy - he`s said he`d like kessler and a rematch with ward -- and he`d like a couple of home soil fights .a few more fights in him yet ..

 

Of course mate, I'm glad to hear he's still confident in his abilities. It isn't the end of the world, and it wasn't the sort of loss that should have an effect on his future. I had Ward winning 115-113. Ward just had that bit extra in tactics and technique on the night, which Carl pretty much admitted too at the end of the bout.

 

More than anything else I respect Froch for his will to fight. He's got that anyone, anywhere, any time mentality. If you look back over his last 7 fights, they were all top class real tough fights for him, and only 2 of them have been at home.

 

I think when all is said and done, and we look back over his career (which IMO is far from finished) he'll be up there with Britain's best fighters ever.

 

All the best too him .

[gnasher16 30,025]

I remember all that bickering between Hopkins and Calzaghe quite clearly but not as you have stated there mate.

 

I remember Warren putting a £million on the table for Hopkins to come over here and challenge Calzaghe for his world title. Hopkins agreed on everything before signing the contract, when it come to signing on the dotted line Hopkins demanded twice the money. Warren wanted to know what had changed? Hopkins didn't give any explanation and backed out of the fight. Instead Hopkins defended his title(s) against the formidable Morrade Hakkar for a fraction of the price that Warren put on the table to fight against Calzaghe.

 

Hopkins wasn't a big ticket seller at that time, and it made more sense for the fight to happen over here at that time. Unfortunately Hopkins was the one that didn't want it and the fight couldn't happen because of that reason.

 

It was only when Hopkins made a bigger name for himself with his fights against DeLaHoya, The two controversial fights against Taylor, Wright and Tarver that Hopkins became a favourite with Yankee public. At the time the fight was made it made more sense for Calzaghe to fight over there than here, which he did, and he won fair and square. It was no fault of Joe's why the fight didn't happen earlier at all IMO.

 

Besides that, I don't care how old Hopkins was at the time he fought Calzaghe, Hopkins has had a number of excellent performances since losing to Calzaghe to suggest he is just some washed up old man. I dare anyone to tell me the man that dismantled Pavlik and Tarver and IMO beat Pascal out of sight twice is a has been no good old loser. Hopkins would of been an excellent scalp for anyone at the time Calzaghe beat him.

 

Jones Jnr I agree was washed up, But after a long career I know that a fight with Jones Jnr was just something Joe wanted for himself, by that time Joe didn't have anything else to prove against a blown up Middleweight and to be fair after 40 odd unbeaten fights I think he deserved that fight after wanting it for so many years.

 

IMO Calzaghe has had quite a few questionable defences and fights over his long career, but the fact of the matter is, just who could he of fought to make that record look any better? Jones Jnr was in another weight class with aspirations to fight at Heavyweight (which he did by beating Ruiz for the WBA strap). Hopkins was unreasonable and was content to fight men he knew he had the measure of at Middleweight. A Sven Ottke fight was out of the question, a Michalczewski bout would of been great but did it really make any sense to take the step up in weight for that fight in Germany?

 

Who else was there around back then, that he could of realistically of fought that would of made it all better?

 

For me, I'd say all of the following fights at the time they happened where worthy scalps, and decent wins for anyone, Reid, Starie, Sheika, Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchell all respectful wins. There's 5 former title holders there out of those 6 names, not exactly a legendary list I agree but decent enough.

 

Lacy was a brilliant win! We can say that Lacy hasn't accomplished anything after the loss to Calzaghe if all we want to do is pour cold water on Calzaghe's career, but is it really a surprise that after the prolonged leathering Calzaghe subjected him too for 12 rounds that he has never been the same since? IMO Calzaghe clearly taken quite a lot more from Lacy than just an unbeaten record that night. He certainly isn't the same fighter that smashed Reid to pieces.

 

Kessler was and still is an excellent fighter and a great win for Calzaghe.

 

Hopkins (regardless of his age) was and to date still is a formidable fighter, IMO a defining fight for Calzaghe.

 

And the man that threw Calzaghe onto the world scene Chris Eubank! I know he wasn't at the pinnacle of his career, but just because he lost two very close decisions to Collins I don't think that means that he was washed up. I think Chris proved in his battles Calzaghe and Thompson (Which I think he won the first fight) that he could still compete at the highest level.

 

Eubank, Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins all defining fights for Calzaghe IMO, and add to that the decent wins I mentioned earlier and that makes for a pretty exceptional career surely?

 

Cracking post there sir.....just a couple ofpoints....as regards the happenings between Hopkins/calzaghe i have to be honest i never paid much attention at the time for whatever reason i cant remember im going purely on what ive been told since....and what i was told came pretty much from the horses mouth so to speak so without sounding impolite.....i,ll go with that ....as it happens i totally agree about Hopkins he is a remarkable athlete,but in any form of sport you dont expect a man to improve or even stay the same the older he gets and no way did Calzaghe expect him to be the same fighter in his mid 40,s that he was as a younger man... for me that was the best accomplishment of Calzaghes career simply because Hopkins had plenty left in the tank....far better than the Lacey win i disagree that you think that loss took something out of him he didnt take a savage beating he was simply outworked as most of Calzaghes wins came about.....i just dont think Lacey was as good as first thought....it happens sometimes.

You say Jones was in another weight class but that fight was spoken about long before it happened and as far as im aware Jones never fought in the super middleweight division while Calzaghe was champion so if he had no intention of making the fight why enter into discussions about it......and then in your very last 2 fights move up to that division anyway and do the exact thing you spent your career saying you wouldnt do !....its not difficult to see what was going on there Calzaghe was very lucky it didnt backfire as you rightly say Hopkins still had a lot more left than Calzaghe planned and it turned out a very close fight that could have gone either way.....no your right you can only fight whats in front of you but there can be no disputing he avoided the 2 biggest names on his record until he thought they was passed it.....had he of fought those 2 men in their prime and beat them we wouldnt be having this conversation but he chose not to.....i dont think he avoided Froch myself i can understand why Froch wouldnt have been in his sights at that time.....you say it didnt make sense to take the step upin weight to go to Germany..........but it did make sense to take the step up in weight to go to America having said his whole career he wouldnt.

Yes he did have an exceptional career....an unbeaten record cant be argued with in most cases.......but as a fight fan though surely you want a fighter to retire with no doubts or questions.....and Joe Calzaghe on this side of the pond and the other now and always will have more questions than answers concerning his career its a shame when 2 great fighters meet and you still dont know who the best fighter was.... imagine if ol George Foreman would of told Ali to wait 5 years then fought him and beat him we would never of known truly who was the better fighter...

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

Cracking post there sir.....just a couple ofpoints....as regards the happenings between Hopkins/calzaghe i have to be honest i never paid much attention at the time for whatever reason i cant remember im going purely on what ive been told since....and what i was told came pretty much from the horses mouth so to speak so without sounding impolite.....i,ll go with that ....as it happens i totally agree about Hopkins he is a remarkable athlete,but in any form of sport you dont expect a man to improve or even stay the same the older he gets and no way did Calzaghe expect him to be the same fighter in his mid 40,s that he was as a younger man... for me that was the best accomplishment of Calzaghes career simply because Hopkins had plenty left in the tank....far better than the Lacey win i disagree that you think that loss took something out of him he didnt take a savage beating he was simply outworked as most of Calzaghes wins came about.....i just dont think Lacey was as good as first thought....it happens sometimes.

 

I remember reading about their dealings and I remember Warren saying in an interview on TV, of what he offered Hopkins and how Hopkins priced himself out of the fight after initially agreeing to a price, then fought Hakkar for peanuts. What is Calzaghe meant to do in that situation mate? Is he meant to risk his title as the champ over in Hopkins backyard and accept a shafting for it?

 

Nah mate, from what I remember Calzaghe never ducked him, it was Hopkins that chose to fight easier bouts in America, Hakkar, Joppy, and a blown up Oscar DelaHoya!!! What was that all about? ODLH lol.

 

I disagree about Lacy as well mate, Lacy was the new kid on the block, the next big American star, and the fact they had the confidence in Lacy to challenge Calzaghe for his title over here speaks volumes IMO. The people with the money behind Lacy who know talent when they see it really thought something of him. As it turned out Lacy took a prolonged and a bad beating. He didn't just outwork him, he really put it on him IMO. Thats just one of them boxing things that we'll have to just agree to disagree on mate.

 

You say Jones was in another weight class but that fight was spoken about long before it happened and as far as im aware Jones never fought in the super middleweight division while Calzaghe was champion so if he had no intention of making the fight why enter into discussions about it......and then in your very last 2 fights move up to that division anyway and do the exact thing you spent your career saying you wouldnt do !....its not difficult to see what was going on there Calzaghe was very lucky it didnt backfire as you rightly say Hopkins still had a lot more left than Calzaghe planned and it turned out a very close fight that could have gone either way.....

 

Around that time Jones Jnr went up to Heavyweight from Light Heavyweight to win a world title mate. With those aspirations I can't see how moving down to Calzaghe's weight would of been done if you know what I meen? I'm not saying Jones was running from Calzaghe, not at all! I just think Jones Jnr had bigger and better challenges at the time. Even before that Jones Jnr was happy beating everything at Light Heavyweight! Every man with a world ranking who could do LightHeavyweight said that they wanted to fight Roy Jones, Calzaghe was no different to the rest of them. The fact the fight didn't happen before it did wasn't anybodies fault, it's just how it panned out for them both IMO.

 

IMO had Calzaghe fought Jones at that time, Jones Jnr would of beat him and beat him badly! As it turned out Calzaghe got a fight with him at a time Jones Jnr needed Calzaghe (in his quest to get back on top) more than Calzaghe needed Jones Jnr.

 

no your right you can only fight whats in front of you but there can be no disputing he avoided the 2 biggest names on his record until he thought they was passed it.....had he of fought those 2 men in their prime and beat them we wouldnt be having this conversation but he chose not to.....i dont think he avoided Froch myself i can understand why Froch wouldnt have been in his sights at that time.....you say it didnt make sense to take the step upin weight to go to Germany..........but it did make sense to take the step up in weight to go to America having said his whole career he wouldnt.

 

I disagree mate there is a dispute that he avoided those two, the fights didn't happen with them earlier because of different reasons, but Calzaghe avoiding them is not one of IMO.

 

As far as Michalczewski goes, Why would he go over there and fight him when we all know how the Germans are with their fan favourites? You know your boxing better than most mate, I thought the reasons and the risk reward factor would be obvious to anyone. Jones Jnr wouldn't even go over there to unify against Michalczewski! Which tells you something!

 

I'm not trying to say that Calzaghe is whiter than white! There IS a man that we've left out of this debate that Clazaghe HAS avoided and messed about on more than one occassion!

 

GLENN JOHNSON!!!!!!!!

 

IMO Calzaghe should of taken the Johnson fight instead of the undeserved challenges in Ashira, Bika, Karaby (what ever his name was) and was probably even more deserved of a shot than Lacy at that time but then thats another arguement I suppose.

 

The poor bloke got fed up waiting about for Calzaghe and moved up in weight to earn some good wins for himself against Ulrich, Woods and Jones Jnr to name a few of them. Even though Calzaghe beat (arguably) better fighters than Johnson, There wasn't any real reason from what I remember why he didn't fight Johnson when he was meant to on more than one occasion.

 

... Joe Calzaghe on this side of the pond and the other now and always will have more questions than answers concerning his career ...

 

More questions than answers!? Thats extremely harsh IMO.

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

No body can Question Joe Calzaghes fight record.

Not only is he the Best middleweight the UK has ever produced he is up there with the best in the WORLD , EVER.

His record speaks for itself, Boxing Hall Of Fame ect.

At His Best , On his Game he would of DESTROYED anyone of any Era at his weight.

Lightning Fast hands, singleminded , determined and Very Very Fit.

Perfect Conditioning.

And what better way to Achieve it all than with your Father as your Trainer and In Your Corner.

The records they broke together will never be bettered.

 

Blimey! lets not get carried away here mate and he was a Super Middle not a Middle.

 

He was our most successful boxer in some peoples eyes, but our best ever?.. Nah.

[gnasher16 30,025]

You make some very valid points......id like to make it clear i didnt follow Calzaghes career very closely at the time and the Hopkins/Calzaghe reasoning was only what i was told since by somebody i have no reason to doubt.....the same person was also well known for calling Calzaghe a fitness fanatic who can box a little bit,which i thinks a little unfair but having been around long enough its often hard to look past what makes sense......as the saying says " never be a fool to your own intelligence "......but then it doesnt necessarily make it fact as im merely taking another mans word for something i didnt know see or hear myself......so you may well be right i couldnt say either way for 100 % so im not saying im right and your wrong just as a boxing fan anyone can see how it looks.

Jeff Lacey ....was there any reason at all apart from American hype to believe he was some kind of superman.....did his record show great wins over proven top quality opponents no......Joe Calzaghe was not a destroyer type of hurtful puncher he was a point scorer.....fighters like that dont do long term damage theres no way Lacey was in some way damaged from that fight he simply wasnt as good as his hype suggested its not the first time thats happened and wont be the last.

 

You have a wise enough head for the sport mate....be honest,do you really in your heart of hearts think Calzaghe wanted to fight Jones or Hopkins in their prime.....sometimes in this sport 2 fighters say they want to fight each other when in reality it suits both of them not to as both represent too much of a danger for the risk to be worth it..............its happening right now with Mayweather and Paquiao !

Ive often heard it said and i agree that had Calzaghe held the wbc title instead of the wbo it would of been far more difficult for him to get away with what he did....add to the fact Calzaghe struggled to make weight for pretty much all the last 4/5 years of his career but never moved up....why ?.....only to move up in the last 2 fights of his career,did he suddenly have a late growth spurt and couldnt hold back any longer or had he waited for the right time to get Roy Jones.....you say yourself Calzaghe wouldnt of beat a peak Roy Jones and i agree.

I say again,i never followed Calzaghes career real closely hence im speaking purely as a boxing fan.....but the fact we dont believe he would have beaten a man who was a few years older than him who a fight could easily have been made with........who he later fought way past his best......suggests something wasnt right.

Edited December 20, 2011 by gnasher16

[brookie 1,193]

i repeat again he never ducked any one .you have even contradicted yourself with this post .he left lawless cos terry wouldnt let him have the big fights he wanted so joe left to go with frank warren .and just said prior to that that he ducked fights you question his quality of opponent yet you put a list of fighters up who had more second chances than the prodigal son i remember bruno fighting old men and 13 stone germans .you go on then about the welsh valleys being an holiday camp .ffs you should try a few weeks up here in the hills in the winter pal you wouldnt walk let alone run in constant driving rain and sleet and double figures below freezing .as for backing talk up you know the old saying talk is cheap mate .and as for the list of fighters you put up .i repeat if they hyad all been put into one they wouldnt lace joes boots mate .and as for hopkins being over the hill .when joe fought him .you being the historian maybe you can enlighten me by telling me did hopkins ride of into the sunset after joe beat him or did he hang around and achieve anything else in boxing .as for backing up big sweeping statements. il leave that ball in your court adios

 

I can see by that reply you clearly didnt know Calzaghe was started off by lawless and Duff .....and how is it contradicting to say because Terry didnt feel he was ready but Joe did that means he didnt duck anyone ....he wanted titles,money.....but as he did with all youngsters Terry would try to hold them back......by the time Calzaghe started ducking fighters Terry was long retired .... i can also see by your reply you dont really know much about London boxers....either that or you just cant think of any that might back up your claim of being crap......" talk is cheap " you say...well what do you prefer a little dance ? boil an egg maybe ?.....not much else you can do in a discussion on the internet mate.

So Calzaghe is psychic as well now is he.....how did he know at that time that Hopkins was going to be a freak athlete into his late 40,s !.....before you talk about 13 stone Germans have a look at some of the fighters Calzaghe made WORLD TITLE defences against...................as for your banging on about freezing cold icey Wales......you must remember Rocky 4 was just a film mate .....Calzaghe could have gone to the London gyms any time he wanted like fighters from every part of the uk did....but he CHOSE to train at home in better surroundings.....London fighters never had that luxury.

I,ll back up any statements i make mate......if you cant well................maybe best not to make them.....or are you just toying with me

do you know pal looking at your posts on here .your a deluded clown .your sitting on here crabbing the best fighter this country ever produced probably the best european fighter ever and all you can do is spout crap .london fighters dont make me laugh .and whats rocky4 got to do with it ..as for backing up statements youd be surprised what i can back up .youve obviously stopped to many jabs your starting to splutter like roy jones now .london gyms and london fighters ffs bring a few up the valleys see how you all fair up here

[gnasher16 30,025]

Not only is he the Best middleweight the UK has ever produced he is up there with the best in the WORLD , EVER.

His record speaks for itself, Boxing Hall Of Fame ect.

At His Best , On his Game he would of DESTROYED anyone of any Era at his weight.

 

 

You cant be serious............any era ?????

Sugar Ray Robinson,Harry Grebb,Carlos Monzon,Stanley Ketchell,Jake La Motta,Marvin Hagler,Ray Leonard...........................

Ok Calzaghe wasnt a middleweight but you didnt know that....sometimes you just gotta keep it real and not get swept along with romantic sayings.

[gnasher16 30,025]

do you know pal looking at your posts on here .your a deluded clown .your sitting on here crabbing the best fighter this country ever produced probably the best european fighter ever and all you can do is spout crap .london fighters dont make me laugh .and whats rocky4 got to do with it ..as for backing up statements youd be surprised what i can back up .youve obviously stopped to many jabs your starting to splutter like roy jones now .london gyms and london fighters ffs bring a few up the valleys see how you all fair up here

 

At least taking a few punches didnt make me lose my manners and need to start name calling when i cant get my own way or back up anything i say

 

" youd be surprised what i can back up "...........well what ? this is the internet son you have to type something and then people read it thats how it works....so whats the surprise dont be shy ?

 

When the valleys have the worldwide reputation the Royal Oak has as a pro or Repton as an amateur then it will be worth comparing,until that day its not.

Edited December 20, 2011 by gnasher16

[gonetoearth 5,144]

JOE was good very good on occasion BUT think his old man had a big say in who he avoided